Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??

chris155au

Active member
Absolutely not. Under only the most extreme of circumstances would our natural human rights ever need to be bargained for. In such cases(wars, natural disasters, plagues, etc.), the reasons would be clearly obvious to anyone.
I was okay with the COVID lockdowns only because I saw the risk to the hospital system. Were you not aware of the systems becoming overwhelmed in NSW and Vic during their Delta outbreak?

Totally agree.

Also agree.
More evidence that COVID is the only subject which we largely agree on!

I think you mean "asymptomatic". People can be infected by this virus. Even if people reach the "symptomatic" stage of this disease, their symptoms can easily be treated and controlled. Just like a cold, take meds, keep hydrated, and plenty of rest, until you recover.
When you said that over 95% of people are not even infected, did you mean asymptomatically infected, or symptomatically infected?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
When you said that over 95% of people are not even infected, did you mean asymptomatically infected, or symptomatically infected?
If over 95% of the entire Australian population is not infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, then they do not have the virus. This can be confirmed/verified by the number of Australians who have tested negative for the antibody in their blood. As well as by the total number of active cases. Therefore, 95% of the Australian population is neither symptomatically or asymptomatically infected. They are simply not infected at all.

I was okay with the COVID lockdowns only because I saw the risk to the hospital system. Were you not aware of the systems becoming overwhelmed in NSW and Vic during their Delta outbreak?
Any time the media starts spewing out its panic and fear-mongering, there will be a certain percentage of people who will lap it up without question. I certainly don't believe the medias self-serving sensationalized, fear-mongering version, of why hospitals will become overwhelmed. Especially since only about 12.5% of of the people with Covid-19 were being admitted to hospitals throughout 2020. Just more misinformation to fuel their manufactured panic. Did you really think that any large public hospitals would have zero contingency plans to avoid being overwhelmed by patients? Do you know of any hospital that have been overwhelmed?


It is almost hypocritical that we panic about hospitals being overwhelmed by a flu virus. And, couldn't care less about obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse. And, these illnesses are the easiest to prevent.
 

chris155au

Active member
If over 95% of the entire Australian population is not infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, then they do not have the virus. This can be confirmed/verified by the number of Australians who have tested negative for the antibody in their blood.
Well how many antibody tests have been conducted?

As well as by the total number of active cases.
The vast majority of which will be people who have developed symptoms which has made them get tested.

Any time the media starts spewing out its panic and fear-mongering, there will be a certain percentage of people who will lap it up without question. I certainly don't believe the medias self-serving sensationalized, fear-mongering version, of why hospitals will become overwhelmed.
To confirm, in the case of NSW and Vic's Delta outbreaks, the media wasn't saying that hospitals WILL become overwhelmed, but rather that they WERE overwhelmed, at certain points during the outbreak when the case load was very high.

Especially since only about 12.5% of of the people with Covid-19 were being admitted to hospitals throughout 2020.
Yeah, but it's important to keep in mind that 2020 was pre-Delta.

Just more misinformation to fuel their manufactured panic. Did you really think that any large public hospitals would have zero contingency plans to avoid being overwhelmed by patients? Do you know of any hospital that have been overwhelmed?
In NSW, Blacktown, Westmead and Nepean hospitals. www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/paramedics-stranded-for-hours-outside-nsw-hospitals/100408718

It is almost hypocritical that we panic about hospitals being overwhelmed by a flu virus. And, couldn't care less about obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse. And, these illnesses are the easiest to prevent.
The difference is that obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse do not result in the same case load as COVID, and certainly not Delta. It's chalk and cheese - night and day.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Well how many antibody tests have been conducted?
There have been 42,507,060 Covid-19 test done in Australia. As of 26/10. From these tests, 138,096 people have tested positive for the Covid-19 antibody. That is 0.3% of people have tested positive. Which means 99.7% of people have tested negative.

The vast majority of which will be people who have developed symptoms which has made them get tested.
Could be. I certainly don't know. It could also be that they were just panicked into being tested, because of all the media and political hype. It could also be that they needed to be part of a political bandwagon to feel more secure. Or, it could be a combination of all of the above.

To confirm, in the case of NSW and Vic's Delta outbreaks, the media wasn't saying that hospitals WILL become overwhelmed, but rather that they WERE overwhelmed, at certain points during the outbreak when the case load was very high.
Did the media SPECIFICALLY say that these hospitals were overwhelmed(at certain times), only because of this Delta strain? Simply saying that during high caseload periods is meaningless. 2 people could seek treatment during this period, and the hospital could claim being overwhelmed.

Why do you keep clinging to the idea that hospitals being overwhelmed? First it was Covid-19 victims overwhelming hospitals. Then it was unvaccinated victims. Now it is the Delta strain of victims. Next it will be about those ignoring mandatory vaccinations overwhelming hospitals. Why can't you see past this fear-mongering repeated ploy? Remember my comments about contingency plans? Hospitals are NOT being overwhelmed.

Yeah, but it's important to keep in mind that 2020 was pre-Delta.
What are you implying here? Since ALL variants are weaker(in some aspect) than its parent, why would I expect the percentage of hospitalizations to increase?. You are just biased, and want to believe that this Delta strain will just takeover where the SARS-CoV-2 virus has left off. This is just irrational.

Again, you are only seeing what you want to see(confirmation bias). In the real world, most of the people waiting had only tested positive for the virus? Most of the more serious victims were simply sent to other hospitals? Most of the victims were triaged, given meds, and sent home? But of course in the political media fantasy version, "People, paramedics, and patients were forced to wait for hours waiting to be treated.". "Hospitals were overwhelmed to breaking point.".

As a good rule of thumb, you should never believe anything that has be packaged and sensationalized by the television and the print media. Telling the whole truth is not their primary agenda.

The difference is that obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse do not result in the same case load as COVID, and certainly not Delta. It's chalk and cheese - night and day.
I would really rethink this through again. It is not about the abuses, it is about the associated diseases that the abuses cause. These unnecessary and preventable diseases, do increase the hospital's caseloads. Or, should we just ignore all the cancers, diabetes, mental illnesses, and addiction dependencies, that these abuses continue to cause?
 

chris155au

Active member
There have been 42,507,060 Covid-19 test done in Australia. As of 26/10. From these tests, 138,096 people have tested positive for the Covid-19 antibody. That is 0.3% of people have tested positive. Which means 99.7% of people have tested negative.
Isn't an antibody test different to a test which checks to see if someone is currently infected with something?

Could be. I certainly don't know. It could also be that they were just panicked into being tested, because of all the media and political hype. It could also be that they needed to be part of a political bandwagon to feel more secure. Or, it could be a combination of all of the above.
So it's possible. So then we go back to my point, which is for all we know,
every single human in the world has been infected at some point, and this would just go to show how few people are actually at risk to getting sick from this thing - let alone actually dying from it.

Why do you keep clinging to the idea that hospitals being overwhelmed?
Well to take an extreme example: New York City during their first outbreak last year. Do you think that was a hospital system which was genuinely overwhelmed?

What are you implying here? Since ALL variants are weaker(in some aspect) than its parent, why would I expect the percentage of hospitalizations to increase?. You are just biased, and want to believe that this Delta strain will just takeover where the SARS-CoV-2 virus has left off. This is just irrational.
No, but Delta is more transmissible, right? This has resulted in the much higher case loads that we've seen in NSW and Vic.

I would really rethink this through again. It is not about the abuses, it is about the associated diseases that the abuses cause. These unnecessary and preventable diseases, do increase the hospital's caseloads. Or, should we just ignore all the cancers, diabetes, mental illnesses, and addiction dependencies, that these abuses continue to cause?
Sure, but I'm not sure that it results in thousands of cases per day.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Now we are told in Logan, that we must be vaccinated to even enter a shopping center(Jimboomba Times Wed. 27th). By the end of October, businesses will be mandated to ask for proof of vaccination, before it can provide service. Soon unvaccinated people won't be able to live at all. People who have chosen not to be vaccinated, are being vilified, alienated, and segregated from the rest of society. And, it is the businesses that are doing the government's dirty work for them.

Australians can't enter Queensland without having had both jabs.

A mother entered Port Macquarie hospital with her 2 month old child. She was feeling a bit sick, and wanted to be tested for Covid-19. She tested positive for Covid-19. And, was immediately separated from her child, and placed in isolation. The grandmother was contacted, but was refused custody of the child, because she was unvaccinated. The father working in Western Australia was then contacted. He flew-in to care for his child. But he also was refused custody of his own child, because he also was not vaccinated. Family service was called-in to take custody of the child. Only to avoid family services taking their child away from them, that the father was forced to take one vaccination, and promised to take the other later. Both the father and grandmother had tested negative for Covid-19, but that didn't matter. All that mattered was if they were vaccinated or not. This is madness!

Is this what the new Australia will look like in the future? All because of a virus that is less lethal than the measles, and a weak nation full of sheep? I said that this would happen. The government is holding our freedoms and liberties to ransom. And, are forcing us to do whatever whatever they want to get them back.

I just don't know what else they can do to people, before people begin to wake up.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Isn't an antibody test different to a test which checks to see if someone is currently infected with something?
If that "something" is Covid-19, then No.

Well to take an extreme example: New York City during their first outbreak last year. Do you think that was a hospital system which was genuinely overwhelmed?
I don't know. You are creating this hypothetical.

So it's possible. So then we go back to my point, which is for all we know,
every single human in the world has been infected at some point, and this would just go to show how few people are actually at risk to getting sick from this thing - let alone actually dying from it.
Sorry, I don't understand your logic here at all. Even if every single person on the planet was infected with "something", this doesn't mean that every person will be infected by this virus. It is not logically consistent.

No, but Delta is more transmissible, right? This has resulted in the much higher case loads that we've seen in NSW and Vic.
Yes, but the Delta variant has other flaws that I have mentioned. And ALL cases of the disease Covid-19 will result in a higher number of cases. An argument can be made, that this variant was caused by the vaccine itself.

Sure, but I'm not sure that it results in thousands of cases per day.
In Australia it is less than 200 cases per day, over 669 days(22 months) period, not thousands. I'm sure you can do the math.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
so shell first asks for evidence, then when preented with said evidence ignores completely it to tell us what 'happens in the real world'
:ROFL1:ROFL1:ROFL1:ROFL1
 

chris155au

Active member
A mother entered Port Macquarie hospital with her 2 month old child. She was feeling a bit sick, and wanted to be tested for Covid-19. She tested positive for Covid-19. And, was immediately separated from her child, and placed in isolation. The grandmother was contacted, but was refused custody of the child, because she was unvaccinated. The father working in Western Australia was then contacted. He flew-in to care for his child. But he also was refused custody of his own child, because he also was not vaccinated. Family service was called-in to take custody of the child. Only to avoid family services taking their child away from them, that the father was forced to take one vaccination, and promised to take the other later. Both the father and grandmother had tested negative for Covid-19, but that didn't matter. All that mattered was if they were vaccinated or not. This is madness!
Was this in the Media?
 

chris155au

Active member
If that "something" is Covid-19, then No.
So it is impossible to know if someone has been infected and recovered from COVID unless they tested positive during their infection?

Sorry, I don't understand your logic here at all. Even if every single person on the planet was infected with "something", this doesn't mean that every person will be infected by this virus. It is not logically consistent.
I'll rephrase: for all we know, every single human in the world has been infected with COVID at some point, (the vast majority obviously being asymptomatic infection) and this would just go to show how few people are actually at risk to getting sick from this thing - let alone actually dying from it.

In Australia it is less than 200 cases per day, over 669 days(22 months) period, not thousands. I'm sure you can do the math.
Yes, so 200 cases per day, as opposed to thousands of COVID cases per day. I'm just saying that it's not comparable.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Maybe anything. Literally anything.
What else would you expect from a nation of sheep? Courage? A moral conscience? When the Queensland's Premier can tell anyone who has not been vaccinated, "..that your days are numbered..", tells me just how far we have come. And, just how little control we have over the government. Maybe they will make-up new laws to get rid of all minor parties. Just incase voters decide to vote them out(like N. Korea, Russia, Viet Nam).

Was this in the Media?
Do you really think that the media would release any stories that would portray the government's health policies as wicked, aversive, and cruel? Why do you think daily recoveries aren't being broadcasted? Or the number of vaccinated people who are infected? Or, anything else that would put the government's agenda in a bad light.

So, a mother having her 2 month old child taken away from her, and the father being forced to be vaccinated to get his child back, will certainly not be front page news. Will it? The media's only job is to keep the panic fresh. To keep spewing out how many are infected, how vaccines are our salvation, and how unvaccinated people are the only threat(just like how the Nazis demonized the Jews). This will continue, until every man woman, and eventually child and pet is forced to be vaccinated. Oh, and then be forced to have more follow-ups and booster vaccinations. Insane. someone is making a fortune.

Which evidence?
He disputes no facts, and offers even less. Expecting a completely closed mind to accept factual, verifiable and logical evidence, outside of the fantasy world of media soundbites, would be like expecting light to escape from a Black Hole. So, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any relevant facts to be forthcoming. Insults and deflections are his only forté.

Yes, so 200 cases per day, as opposed to thousands of COVID cases per day. I'm just saying that it's not comparable.
Totally agree. They are absolutely not compatible. They are different diseases.

So it is impossible to know if someone has been infected and recovered from COVID unless they tested positive during their infection?
There are 2 test that I know of being used. One test is used to identify the presence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus(PCR) in the blood. It does this by detecting a portion of the virus's DNA/RNA sequence code. However, since B-cell antibodies don't develop until around 3 weeks after being infected, antibody tests is more an indication of recovery, if found in the bloodstream.

I'll rephrase: for all we know, every single human in the world has been infected with COVID at some point, (the vast majority obviously being asymptomatic infection) and this would just go to show how few people are actually at risk to getting sick from this thing - let alone actually dying from it.
Only if we are assuming that the overwhelming majority of uninfected people are really infected, but are just asymptomatic. They are asymptomatic, because they are not infected. Not the other way around. Even after 10's of millions of tests showing less than 1% positive results, we still are worried? So, why would we suspect that every human has been, or will be infected at all. This is just irrational. What evidence supports this claim? Other than assumptions and suppositions?
 

chris155au

Active member
So, a mother having her 2 month old child taken away from her, and the father being forced to be vaccinated to get his child back, will certainly not be front page news. Will it?
Alright, so this is something that you heard from a friend or family member?

Totally agree. They are absolutely not compatible. They are different diseases.
So then why did you mention obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse?

There are 2 test that I know of being used. One test is used to identify the presence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus(PCR) in the blood. It does this by detecting a portion of the virus's DNA/RNA sequence code. However, since B-cell antibodies don't develop until around 3 weeks after being infected, antibody tests is more an indication of recovery, if found in the bloodstream.
I was just checking because I asked if an antibody test is different to a test which checks to see if someone is currently infected with something, and you said "if that 'something' is Covid-19, then No."

Only if we are assuming that the overwhelming majority of uninfected people are really infected, but are just asymptomatic. They are asymptomatic, because they are not infected. Not the other way around. Even after 10's of millions of tests showing less than 1% positive results, we still are worried? So, why would we suspect that every human has been, or will be infected at all. This is just irrational. What evidence supports this claim? Other than assumptions and suppositions?
I'm just saying that it's possible. It IS possible isn't it?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I'm just saying that it's possible. It IS possible isn't it?
No Chris it isn't even possible, except in the Resident Evil, and Zombie movies. But in the real world, this has never happened. Nature has taken many steps to prevent this from ever happening. But if God took away all of nature's measures, then it is possible that every single member of the human species could become infected. And, please don't ask me to explain all of nature's measures. That would be just sending me down another rabbit hole. Where I am contributing everything, and you are contributing nothing.

Is it possible for humans to fly unaided? Is it possible to fall from the top of the Empire State Building and survive? Is it possible that ghosts exists? Could we stay away from framing comments around absolutes? Nature is based on degrees of certainty. Not on absolutes. I know a case where a man excised his terminal brain tumor with a .38, and survived. Should we confirm this practice, as a possible surgical procedure?


I was just checking because I asked if an antibody test is different to a test which checks to see if someone is currently infected with something, and you said "if that 'something' is Covid-19, then No."
Correct.

Alright, so this is something that you heard from a friend or family member?
This was told to me by Michael O'Neill of the Informed Medical Options Party(IMOP). And, was confirmed by a colleague/friend working at the hospital. The uncomfortable truth is always the first to be edited.

So then why did you mention obesity, alcohol, drug, and nicotine abuse?
I'm think you know why I mentioned these leading causes of preventable illnesses. And, how they also contributes to the hospital's workload. So spare me the false incredulity. And, lets not just go around in circles. You're better than that.
 

chris155au

Active member
No Chris it isn't even possible, except in the Resident Evil, and Zombie movies.
Alright, well 30% infection is a bit more of a realistic possibility. It's certainly possible that there have been more asymptomatic infections than symptomatic. And if that was proven somehow, this would just go to show how few people are actually at risk to getting sick from this thing - let alone actually dying from it.

So which is it? Is there a dedicated antibody test or isn't there?
 
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