chris155au
Active member
What situation?
Why should people be forced to get vaccinated in order to protect others who choose not to get vaccinated??
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Shellandshilo1956
Active member
No one should be put in the situation of being forced to be vaccinated to protect others who have chosen NOT to be vaccinated. Read your own comments. This sounds like Fascism!
Exactly why should recovered Covid-19 victims, and those testing negative, be forced to be vaccinated? Now lets hear your "artful dodge".
greggerypeccary
Active member
Because they can catch the virus again and spread it.
chris155au
Active member
Have you forgotten our earlier discussion in this very thread? You seem to be under the impression that I am against you on the subject of vaccine mandates. It is indeed, possibly the only thing that we agree with eachother on. It may in fact be the only thing that you agree with ANY conservative on! Here, check out my starting post for this thread which I'm sure you will agree with: www.polanimal.com.au/index.php?threads/why-should-people-be-forced-to-get-vaccinated-in-order-to-protect-others-who-choose-not-to-get-vaccinated.6913/
Shellandshilo1956
Active member
Being re-infected with Covid-19, for those who have naturally recovered, would be extremely rare. And regardless if you're vaccinated or unvaccinated, YOU CAN STILL TRANSMIT THIS VIRUS. So, what is your point?? Remember NO vaccines, NO antibodies, NOTHING can stop you from being infected by any virus. PERIOD! So, again, what is your point??
blah blah blah
your claim
your claim
your question
my reply
so you see you fucken moron, I did own up to not answering reading the rest of your post. You were absolutely wrong. Why would anyone read your drool? It's all the same crap over and over and over again. It's not my fault you are an imbecile.
greggerypeccary
Active member
Link?
Shellandshilo1956
Active member
PROBABLY NOT! PROBABLY NOT! Don't you even know what that means, you fucken moron? It means that you are NOT 100% CERTAIN IF YOU DID OR DIDN'T!! It is NOT an admission that you did or didn't, except in your empty imbecilic brain.
So NO!! You didn't admit your mistake at all.
Then for Christ sake, STOP READING AND MISREPRESENTING MY COMMENTS! My posts are not meant for snarky trolls like you. I hope that people read my posts with an open mind. That definitely leaves you out! I hope that people read my posts, to learn something they might not already know. Clearly you already know everything. I hope people read my posts to share new information, not to simply reinforce popular opinions. Again, leaves you out!
So I have no idea why you would read any of my posts. Maybe your are just another insecure closet masochist. In either case, you offer nothing, contribute nothing, and is a distracting annoyance at best. So I promise I won't be offended if I never hear from you again. I promise!
Shellandshilo1956
Active member
At least make an effort, to do your own homework.
COVID reinfections are unusual — but could still help the virus to spread
Large study of UK health-care workers suggests that most people are immune for months after catching COVID-19 for the first time.
www.nature.com
Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination
This Medical News article discusses the duration of immunity after SARS-CoV-2 infection.
jamanetwork.com
Now lets see your evidence? Or is this just a one-way conversation. Again what do you think the job of the immune system is??
greggerypeccary
Active member
There's nothing there that says it's "extremely rare".At least make an effort, to do your own homework.
COVID reinfections are unusual — but could still help the virus to spread
Large study of UK health-care workers suggests that most people are immune for months after catching COVID-19 for the first time.Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination
This Medical News article discusses the duration of immunity after SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Now lets see your evidence? Or is this just a one-way conversation. Again what do you think the job of the immune system is??
The situation of not being vaccinated. Not all people who are unvaccinated made a choice. I have several people in my family who are unable to be vaccinated due to medical conditions. Call us dupes if you wish, but the rest of us consider it more than our duty to protect them as much as we can.
Shellandshilo1956
Active member
I'm the one who said "extremely rare", NOT the article!! But, since you are reduced to "cherry-picking" semantics, I'm going to assume that you are just avoiding the truth like the plague. But in case you have NOT read the article(evidence), here are some excerpts, for you to ignore.
"Most people who catch and recover from COVID-19 are likely to be immune for several months afterwards, a study of more than 20,000 health-care workers in the United Kingdom has found.".
"The data suggest that natural immunity might be as effective as vaccination, she added, at least over the five-month period the study has covered so far.
The data suggest that repeat infections are rare — they occurred in fewer than 1% of about 6,600 participants who had already been ill with COVID-19. But the researchers also found that people who become re-infected can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat, even when they do not show symptoms.".
"Reinfection is pretty unusual, so that’s good news,” says immunologist John Wherry at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. “But you’re not free to run around without a mask.”.
"Over the 5 months, the team found 44 possible reinfections. In the group of 14,000 participants who had not been previously infected,..".
That's a 0.3% chance of being re-infected.
"All 44 are considered ‘possible’ reinfections, and were classified on the basis of PCR tests combined with screening measures to reduce the risk of re-detecting virus from the initial infection. So far, only 2 of these 44 cases have passed more stringent tests to be classified as ‘probable’.".
And even these 2 have not be confirmed as being re-infected. That's a 0.01% chance of being probably re-infected. This means that you have a 99.99% chance of NOT being re-infected after recovery at all. Now I agree that the article does not use the words "completely immune", since nothing in nature is absolute. But I think, that a 99.99% chance of probably not being re-infected is pretty damn close to being "completely immune".
So before you say "Well this is only one study". I can provide you with more studies. And, when I keep piling all these studies that you clearly don't understand anyway, when will I reach the point that you will realize, that the immune system doesn't need any help? Never mind, it was rhetorical. So lets hear it again, like a good boy.
Sit. Stay. Good Boy.
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chris155au
Active member
Yeah, I see what you mean now. Are you and your family in Australia?
Indeed we are.
Increasingly in the U.S., employers are requiring employees to be vaccinated. Some are saying the employee must be vaccinated or be fired. Others are not firing those who wish not to get vaccinated, but they are requiring, instead, a weekly Covid test.
I am vaccinated, and I got Covid 5 months later. I am sure it was the Delta Variant. I'm 66 years old. My symptoms were mild and short-lived. 5 days after I tested positive, I couldn't even tell I had been sick.
My advice, based upon my personal experience, is to get vaccinated.
But, we have reached a point where anyone can get vaccinated who wants to get vaccinated. And it is free of charge. It's easy and hassle free.
So ...
I am opposed to forcing anyone to get vaccinated under threat of firing from their job.
Furthermore, having reached a point where anyone can be vaccinated, I am increasingly tired of wearing a mask. I do believe that if everyone wears a mask when out in public that it probably does have some efficacy in slowing the spread of the disease. Masking doesn't stop the spread; it slows it somewhat.
But whether you wear a mask or not, or if others wear a mask or not, you are probably going to get infected with Covid sooner or later. In the U.S., some 44 million people have gotten it (that we know of) in the short time that Covid has been with us. Based upon that timeline and those numbers, we can expect that pretty much everyone is going to get it eventually.
Unless some new variant arises that is particularly deadly and which is not mitigated by being vaccinated, the vast majority of vaccinated people have little to fear from Covid.
Those who choose not to get vaccinated are, in my opinion, taking a risk that I don't agree with, but which I believe is their risk to take if they choose.
This being the case, I am ready to go back to normal. That means we open up schools, businesses, and assemble together just as we did before Covid. If you want to wear a mask, wear it. If you don't want to wear one, don't. If you want to keep your distance from others, fine. And employers should leave the decision to vaccinate or not up to the employee and otherwise leave them alone and stop threatening them and firing them.
I was reading encouraging news today that Pfizer is developing and getting positive results from a medicine that can be taken after a person is infected with Covid. Other pharmaceutical companies are also working on this as well. This is not a vaccination; it's a medicine that helps prevent serious symptoms from Covid by interfering with the virus's ability to replicate itself. I think it's likely that as time passes, we are going to see medicines developed that will effectively combat Covid and lower the hospitalization rate and death rate. I think these new medicines are just around the corner.
Masking does almost nothing to protect vaccinated people or people who have already had Covid. They really don't need to be protected by masking. Mostly, masking helps protect unvaccinated people who are choosing to be unvaccinated and choosing to deal with Covid when they get it without the help of a vaccination. And those folks are almost inevitably going to get Covid sooner or later anyways, no matter what we do.
So what's the point of masking and threatening jobs over vaccination?
I can definitely agree to masking up in hospitals, care homes, and medical offices and around very elderly or sick people regardless of their vaccination status. This seems like common sense to me. I also agree with quarantining oneself when you get sick.
But for most people, and in most places, it's time to go back to normal.
I am vaccinated, and I got Covid 5 months later. I am sure it was the Delta Variant. I'm 66 years old. My symptoms were mild and short-lived. 5 days after I tested positive, I couldn't even tell I had been sick.
My advice, based upon my personal experience, is to get vaccinated.
But, we have reached a point where anyone can get vaccinated who wants to get vaccinated. And it is free of charge. It's easy and hassle free.
So ...
I am opposed to forcing anyone to get vaccinated under threat of firing from their job.
Furthermore, having reached a point where anyone can be vaccinated, I am increasingly tired of wearing a mask. I do believe that if everyone wears a mask when out in public that it probably does have some efficacy in slowing the spread of the disease. Masking doesn't stop the spread; it slows it somewhat.
But whether you wear a mask or not, or if others wear a mask or not, you are probably going to get infected with Covid sooner or later. In the U.S., some 44 million people have gotten it (that we know of) in the short time that Covid has been with us. Based upon that timeline and those numbers, we can expect that pretty much everyone is going to get it eventually.
Unless some new variant arises that is particularly deadly and which is not mitigated by being vaccinated, the vast majority of vaccinated people have little to fear from Covid.
Those who choose not to get vaccinated are, in my opinion, taking a risk that I don't agree with, but which I believe is their risk to take if they choose.
This being the case, I am ready to go back to normal. That means we open up schools, businesses, and assemble together just as we did before Covid. If you want to wear a mask, wear it. If you don't want to wear one, don't. If you want to keep your distance from others, fine. And employers should leave the decision to vaccinate or not up to the employee and otherwise leave them alone and stop threatening them and firing them.
I was reading encouraging news today that Pfizer is developing and getting positive results from a medicine that can be taken after a person is infected with Covid. Other pharmaceutical companies are also working on this as well. This is not a vaccination; it's a medicine that helps prevent serious symptoms from Covid by interfering with the virus's ability to replicate itself. I think it's likely that as time passes, we are going to see medicines developed that will effectively combat Covid and lower the hospitalization rate and death rate. I think these new medicines are just around the corner.
Masking does almost nothing to protect vaccinated people or people who have already had Covid. They really don't need to be protected by masking. Mostly, masking helps protect unvaccinated people who are choosing to be unvaccinated and choosing to deal with Covid when they get it without the help of a vaccination. And those folks are almost inevitably going to get Covid sooner or later anyways, no matter what we do.
So what's the point of masking and threatening jobs over vaccination?
I can definitely agree to masking up in hospitals, care homes, and medical offices and around very elderly or sick people regardless of their vaccination status. This seems like common sense to me. I also agree with quarantining oneself when you get sick.
But for most people, and in most places, it's time to go back to normal.
you will soon have the issue of a co-worker, or perhaps even a customer, catching covid from an unvaccinated employee, and then suing the business. Under Australian law at least, the employer has a legal duty to ensure the workplace is safe for his employees.
It'll be interesting to see which way the courts go if this ever does make it to court.
not all of them choose to remain unvaccinated. Some have no choice because of prior health issues. Especially those with heart issues
chris155au
Active member
What State are you and your family in?
We too have workplace safety rules. Those rules are enforced by state and federal agencies. The federal agency in the US is OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. So far, OSHA has not mandated that all employers require its employees to be vaccinated. These vaccination requirements by employers are a choice the employers are making, not a government mandate they have to comply with. I would expect that if an employer is complying with all OSHA safety rules, they would be protected against lawsuits. And besides, most people who catch Covid are infected for some number of days before they feel sick. So how do you prove where you got it or who gave it to you? And maybe you it got from someone who is vaccinated. In the past few days, I flew across country, attended a NASCAR race, flew home, and went to work. If I test positive for Covid today, how would I know where I got it?
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