White Americans have a lot to atone for in their violent racist oppression of blacks

Texan

Active member
I'm not responsible for other people's crimes. What happens if my ancestors fought and died to end slavery in the Civil War? Do black people owe me?

I'm part Choctaw. Do I get an exemption? I took a black girl out to dinner last night.(my son with his girlfriend) I frequently send money and gifts to my black daughter in law and mixed race granddaughter. Do I get a tax credit? You are talking about national suicide.
 
Last edited:

Squire

Active member
I'm not responsible for other people's crimes. What happens if my ancestors fought and died to end slavery in the Civil War? Do black people owe me?

I'm part Choctaw. Do I get an exemption? I took a black girl out to dinner last night.(my son with his girlfriend) I frequently send money and gifts to my black daughter in law and mixed race granddaughter. Do I get a tax credit? You are talking about national suicide.
You are responsible for being aware that there were crimes.

National suicide would have been the result of four more years of Trump.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I'm not responsible for other people's crimes. What happens if my ancestors fought and died to end slavery in the Civil War? Do black people owe me?

I'm part Choctaw. Do I get an exemption? I took a black girl out to dinner last night.(my son with his girlfriend) I frequently send money and gifts to my black daughter in law and mixed race granddaughter. Do I get a tax credit? You are talking about national suicide.
My mother was part Cherokee. And, my great great grandfather was a tribal elder. This is not about the Blacks and Whites who died during the wars, and you know it. This is about the inhuman atrocities committed by the White race on the Black race, after the wars.

Are any of you defending the freedoms(and constitutional rights) of all Americans? Are any of you actively denouncing the racist, bigoted, and segregationist rhetoric of all the hate groups in America? When you see Blacks (and other Minorities) being treated unfairly and unjustly, do you involve yourself? Or, do you just ignore, rationalize, and claim that "It ain't me"? Since White Supremacist hate rhetoric is still spreading today, simply saying, "Nothing to do with me", is just not good enough. Doing nothing is just tacit acceptance by default.

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map?year=2019

This is why I respect the "Antifa". They are willing to put skin in the game, to stop the spread of racist and White supremacist rhetoric. They are willing sacrifice themselves, and actually fight to rid America of hate and bigotry. These are the true believers in the meaning of freedom for all.

The fact that you refer to your daughter-in-law as, "Black daughter-in-law", and your granddaughter as, a "mixed race granddaughter", pretty much says it all.

Also, frequently sending money and gifts, begs the question, "Do you ever visit them in person?". Or, are you too ashamed? Just asking.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
My mother was part Cherokee. And, my great great grandfather was a tribal elder. This is not about the Blacks and Whites who died during the wars, and you know it. This is about the inhuman atrocities committed by the White race on the Black race, after the wars.

Are any of you defending the freedoms(and constitutional rights) of all Americans? Are any of you actively denouncing the racist, bigoted, and segregationist rhetoric of all the hate groups in America?
I do. I've mentioned it here many times.

When you see Blacks (and other Minorities) being treated unfairly and unjustly, do you involve yourself? Or, do you just ignore, rationalize, and claim that "It ain't me"? Since White Supremacist hate rhetoric is still spreading today, simply saying, "Nothing to do with me", is just not good enough. Doing nothing is just tacit acceptance by default.
No it isn't acceptance by default. Most white people in 21st Century America do not accept white supremacist rhetoric. In the U.S. you may hold and voice offensive, stupid beliefs. If you ask the vast majority of white people what they think of white supremacist rhetoric, they'll tell you its idiotic and has no place at the table in our country. Those people who actually believe in that are a tiny fraction, but since their beliefs are not illegal to hold or to voice, most people do the next best thing, and that is to just ignore them. That is how you punish them. You completely ignore them.

This is why I respect the "Antifa". They are willing to put skin in the game, to stop the spread of racist and White supremacist rhetoric. They are willing sacrifice themselves, and actually fight to rid America of hate and bigotry. These are the true believers in the meaning of freedom for all.
At their core, Antifa are anarchists. They hate our entire system - our economic system and the rule of law. It's not going to happen, but if Antifa took over the country, our civil liberties would disappear overnight. True believers in freedom for all? Sorry, no chance.

The fact that you refer to your daughter-in-law as, "Black daughter-in-law", and your granddaughter as, a "mixed race granddaughter", pretty much says it all.

Also, frequently sending money and gifts, begs the question, "Do you ever visit them in person?". Or, are you too ashamed? Just asking.
I still think you're living in the past. Times have changed, Shell. Racists will always be with us. But they have been greatly diminished over the past 50 years in both their numbers and influence. I too have a POC in my immediately family. She is accepted and loved just as much as anyone else in the family, and I find those last two questions you asked Texan to be just plain hostile and offensive.
 
Last edited:

Squire

Active member
Nothing to do with Donald Trump. No need for personal remarks about another member. This is not OzPol!
You should read it again. There is nothing personal in the comment "National suicide would have been the result of four more years of Trump."
 

Texan

Active member
My mother was part Cherokee. And, my great great grandfather was a tribal elder. This is not about the Blacks and Whites who died during the wars, and you know it. This is about the inhuman atrocities committed by the White race on the Black race, after the wars.

Are any of you defending the freedoms(and constitutional rights) of all Americans? Are any of you actively denouncing the racist, bigoted, and segregationist rhetoric of all the hate groups in America? When you see Blacks (and other Minorities) being treated unfairly and unjustly, do you involve yourself? Or, do you just ignore, rationalize, and claim that "It ain't me"? Since White Supremacist hate rhetoric is still spreading today, simply saying, "Nothing to do with me", is just not good enough. Doing nothing is just tacit acceptance by default.

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map?year=2019

This is why I respect the "Antifa". They are willing to put skin in the game, to stop the spread of racist and White supremacist rhetoric. They are willing sacrifice themselves, and actually fight to rid America of hate and bigotry. These are the true believers in the meaning of freedom for all.

The fact that you refer to your daughter-in-law as, "Black daughter-in-law", and your granddaughter as, a "mixed race granddaughter", pretty much says it all.

Also, frequently sending money and gifts, begs the question, "Do you ever visit them in person?". Or, are you too ashamed? Just asking.
How else am I going to make the point? I don't go around quantifying them. They are who they are.
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho 💉💉
Staff member
This is what I object to:

Nobody can make a living from studying Texan's life. Such a study would not take long, maybe half a lunch break.
Let’s keep personal allusions out of Political debate!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I still think you're living in the past. Times have changed, Shell. Racists will always be with us. But they have been greatly diminished over the past 50 years in both their numbers and influence. I too have a POC in my immediately family. She is accepted and loved just as much as anyone else in the family, and I find those last two questions you asked Texan to be just plain hostile and offensive.
I really don't care what era you think I'm living in, Seth. Or, how many times you keep saying it. Time may have changed, but most people haven't. Power, identity, privilege, and status are not easily given up. I've asked you many times, since you believe in racial equality. What have you done to actively combate racial injustice? When you hear the rhetoric of racial bigots, White supremacists, and racial separatists, what action(s) do you take? When to see Black Americans(or any minority) being racially mistreated by other Whites, do you actually get involved or speak out? Do you stand UP for your beliefs, or just stand BEHIND them? If I see anyone being being abused racially, I just can't stand by and do nothing. Actions always speak louder than words. And, I never look the other way.

Since you talk the talk, do you walk the walk? I'll be at the city march on the 24th, and my voice will be heard. All I've heard from you, are the same old racial stereotypes, conservative soundbites, parrotted clichés, and the dissemination of half-truths. Also, the same politically-correct and meaningless platitudes, partisan diflections, and obstinate denials.

And, if having one POC in your immediate family, somehow demonstrates just how far we have come as a society in 50 years of racism(much longer than that), then we really haven't come very far at all!

No it isn't acceptance by default. Most white people in 21st Century America do not accept white supremacist rhetoric. In the U.S. you may hold and voice offensive, stupid beliefs. If you ask the vast majority of white people what they think of white supremacist rhetoric, they'll tell you its idiotic and has no place at the table in our country. Those people who actually believe in that are a tiny fraction, but since their beliefs are not illegal to hold or to voice, most people do the next best thing, and that is to just ignore them. That is how you punish them. You completely ignore them.
Never mind, you've just answered the question in this paragraph, regarding what you will do when you come across any racial injustice. So, let me rephrase. It IS PASSIVE acceptance by default. Most White people in the 21st century don't OPENLY accept racist and supremacist rhetoric. This doesn't mean that this rhetoric is not passively accepted. By saying that you should just ignore this insidious, and divisive rhetoric, you are passively allowing this rhetoric to continue and grow. THUS PASSIVE ACCEPTANCE by inaction!! Only the most socially naive simpleton would think, that inactions' would in some way shame any racist fuck into changing his core beliefs.

I'm starting to believe, that it is YOU who is living in the wrong century. I keep forgetting, that you can only see race realities, from a White perspective.


At their core, Antifa are anarchists. They hate our entire system - our economic system and the rule of law. It's not going to happen, but if Antifa took over the country, our civil liberties would disappear overnight. True believers in freedom for all? Sorry, no chance.
I won't go through this again. Because you will again just avoid my questions. When the fascist racist, White supremacists, were spewing out their White hate-filled fascist rhetoric, where was your voice then? I suppose it is easy to ignore any race being denigrated and vilified, just as long as it is NOT your race, Right? But criticizing groups willing to fight back against the rhetoric of these cowards and criminals, is just tacitly defending them. IMHO.

Antifa is an anti-fascist organization, that fights back against the rhetoric of White Supremacists promoting racial disharmony. They are all ordinary people of all races, who have just had enough. They fight back against bigots, by publicly exposing members of these hate groups, to the rest of the world. Since all of these hate groups rely entirely on fear and violence, Antifa members are prepared not to back down. I have nothing but respect for them. Because they know that DOING NOTHING, DOES NOTHING!!

So what is the evidence that objectively demonstrates that members of Antifa are anarchists at their core? Other than their flag being similar in design. Specifically, what evidence suggests that Antifa hates our social and economic system, or IS trying to take over the government? Maybe you are suggesting that we all should just ignore these criminals and their rhetoric. Perhaps they will just stop their hate mongering due to the lack of attention?
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
How else am I going to make the point? I don't go around quantifying them. They are who they are.
Try not labeling people using colors. It is your African American or Black American daughter in law. Not your "black" daughter in law. Do you identify the Chinese as "yellow", or the American Indians as "red"? Do you identify your wife as your "white" wife? Your grand daughter is your granddaughter. Not your "mixed race" granddaughter. She is your granddaughter, regardless of the ethnicity of her parents.

If need be, people should be identified by their ethnic origins(race) or nationality(country). But, never by their color. It is offensive and bigoted. Although, I understand what you are saying, I was offended by how you said it. Labeling is NOT quantifying.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
It's the 21st Century, guys. It isn't the 1850s or the 1950s.

But the impact of those times is still being felt. There are even still people with living memory of those times with us. Those times have informed the people that they are and all they have gone on to do. You cannot simply erase that in a couple of generations.

Especially not with the massive divide between black and white that still exists in the US.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
I really don't care what era you think I'm living in, Seth. Or, how many times you keep saying it. Time may have changed, but most people haven't. Power, identity, privilege, and status are not easily given up. I've asked you many times, since you believe in racial equality. What have you done to actively combate racial injustice? When you hear the rhetoric of racial bigots, White supremacists, and racial separatists, what action(s) do you take? When to see Black Americans(or any minority) being racially mistreated by other Whites, do you actually get involved or speak out? Do you stand UP for your beliefs, or just stand BEHIND them? If I see anyone being being abused racially, I just can't stand by and do nothing. Actions always speak louder than words. And, I never look the other way.

Since you talk the talk, do you walk the walk? I'll be at the city march on the 24th, and my voice will be heard. All I've heard from you, are the same old racial stereotypes, conservative soundbites, parrotted clichés, and the dissemination of half-truths. Also, the same politically-correct and meaningless platitudes, partisan diflections, and obstinate denials.
I spent a lifetime of taking action and protecting the weak and vulnerable, Shell.

And, if having one POC in your immediate family, somehow demonstrates just how far we have come as a society in 50 years of racism(much longer than that), then we really haven't come very far at all!
I didn't know there was a certain number we are supposed to have. Is there a quota or something?

Never mind, you've just answered the question in this paragraph, regarding what you will do when you come across any racial injustice. So, let me rephrase. It IS PASSIVE acceptance by default.
It is not "acceptance" or approval of any kind, active or passive.

Most White people in the 21st century don't OPENLY accept racist and supremacist rhetoric. This doesn't mean that this rhetoric is not passively accepted. By saying that you should just ignore this insidious, and divisive rhetoric, you are passively allowing this rhetoric to continue and grow. THUS PASSIVE ACCEPTANCE by inaction!! Only the most socially naive simpleton would think, that inactions' would in some way shame any racist fuck into changing his core beliefs.
Again, there is no "acceptance" or approval of white supremacist rhetoric by me or the vast majority of white people in the U.S.

I'm starting to believe, that it is YOU who is living in the wrong century. I keep forgetting, that you can only see race realities, from a White perspective.
I could say the same about you, couldn't I? But if did, wouldn't I have to ignore everything else about you? A lifetime of learning and experience? And I could simply dismiss it all by the fact that you're white? That's what you just did.

I won't go through this again. Because you will again just avoid my questions. When the fascist racist, White supremacists, were spewing out their White hate-filled fascist rhetoric, where was your voice then? I suppose it is easy to ignore any race being denigrated and vilified, just as long as it is NOT your race, Right? But criticizing groups willing to fight back against the rhetoric of these cowards and criminals, is just tacitly defending them. IMHO.

Antifa is an anti-fascist organization, that fights back against the rhetoric of White Supremacists promoting racial disharmony. They are all ordinary people of all races, who have just had enough. They fight back against bigots, by publicly exposing members of these hate groups, to the rest of the world. Since all of these hate groups rely entirely on fear and violence, Antifa members are prepared not to back down. I have nothing but respect for them. Because they know that DOING NOTHING, DOES NOTHING!!

So what is the evidence that objectively demonstrates that members of Antifa are anarchists at their core? Other than their flag being similar in design. Specifically, what evidence suggests that Antifa hates our social and economic system, or IS trying to take over the government? Maybe you are suggesting that we all should just ignore these criminals and their rhetoric. Perhaps they will just stop their hate mongering due to the lack of attention?
I'd be fine with Antifa peaceably fighting against racism, using words, literature, signs, and peaceful public demonstrations. What I object to is using violence to fight against it. And if some far right wing group gains permission to hold a demonstration or speak in a public place, then they should be allowed to do so without physical assault or physical interference.

That in no way approves of their message, but instead, it shows respect for our Bill of Rights. The freedom of speech must include speech that the majority deems to be offensive or ignorant. When we start approving of violence to be used against thought or speech, we jump onto a slippery slope that we should not get on. When we protect the freedom of speech of the stupid and ignorant and unpopular, we are protecting the freedom of speech of all of us. (Incidentally, this point of view illustrates a difference between American culture and the culture of the UK or Australia.)

Antifa always intends to use violence when they counter demonstrate against one of these groups, and inevitably, they always carry out their intentions.

This intent to suppress speech is the same intent that was famously carried out against civil rights marches in the south in times past, and it is an offense to the Constitution. It is also the same behavior used by despotic regimes down through history.

I have other complaints about Antifa. I don't believe they are "anti-fascists". I believe they are a loosely knit group of criminals, zealots, and anarchists, who are no better than the fascists they pretend to hate. Their religion is a hatred of America, our economic system, our freedoms, and the rule of law, and a love for disorder, violence, and destruction. That is their rhetoric and their track record. In so many ways they are just like the Aryan Nation or the KKK, except for the focus of their hatred.

Changing gears ...

I remember 15 years ago or so watching a news report on one of the national news networks of a KKK "national rally" held in some city in some eastern state. I can't remember which city or state now. It was in some sort of park. I remember this dopey looking guy up on a platform in his KKK costume giving a speech. One or two other similarly dopey looking guys were standing near him on the platform also in their costumes. I remember that the news crew panned their cameras over a "crowd" of about a dozen (two dozen at best) onlookers. This, as I remember, was billed as a "national rally" of the KKK. The news reporters opined that most of the onlookers were family members of the speakers.

What a joke! Oh! Look at the clown show!

They gave about 30 seconds to that report, and then the news show moved on.

And that was the sum total of the attention they got. Not much unlike the notice you might take of a circus curiosity of old.

Do you really think they made any converts? Do you really think they can be forced to convert from their beliefs? No and no. But by upholding their right to free speech, did we uphold the right of free speech for all?

Yes, we did.

And, meanwhile, we may ridicule them and dismiss their message as garbage. That is how we can fight them and protect our rights at the same time.
 
Last edited:
Top