Vaccine mandates

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Asymptomatic infections.
So, you are saying that even if you are asymptomatic, you wear a mask just in case you might only be asymptomatic? And, may still be able to infect others? What is the mechanism for the virus to spread for asymptomatic carriers? Telepathy? How do you spread the virus, before the point of becoming symptomatic?

You are just rationalizing your beliefs and actions. In reality, if you are not infected, or are asymptomatic, you are not going to spread shit to anyone. However, people who feel sick, and ARE showing symptoms from this virus, SHOULD WEAR A MASK! And people who feel sick and showing symptoms, KNOW that they are sick and showing symptoms. Most people will wear a mask down to their chemist, and virus-up with drugs to lessen their symptoms.

Did you blatantly ignore my anti-choicer question? Are you going to keep accusing me of saying the same thing, even though you keep ignoring me.
 
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mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Of course you can transmit the disease if you are asymptomatic. Indeed, this is when people are most likely to transmit the disease.

Shell, once again you are just wrong.

Not that you'll admit it though. This post will just inspire another soliloquy saying the exact same thing you've said a thousand times.


"According to the CDC, most cases of transmission occur early in a person's infection, in the one or two days before the onset of symptoms, and in the two or three days afterwards.

People can be particularly infectious before they start displaying symptoms because they are less likely to take measures to limit the virus's spread."



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/covid-omicron-symptoms-incubation-period-infectious/100739260
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Even Symptom-Free, People With Omicron Much More Likely to Spread COVID: Studies

MONDAY, Jan. 10, 2022 (HealthDay News) -- Researchers say they've uncovered a clue to why the Omicron variant spreads COVID-19 so much more rapidly than its predecessors.

People who are infected but have no symptoms are still far more likely to infect others than they would have been with earlier variants, the data shows.

"As we witness the quick, global spread of Omicron, it is clear that we urgently need a better understanding of the transmission dynamics of this variant," said senior study author Dr. Lawrence Corey. He is principal investigator of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center-based operations center of the COVID-19 Prevention Network.

"Since so many people may be asymptomatic, we can't always know who is carrying the virus, but we do know what we can do to protect ourselves and to help prevent further spread: Wear a mask; wash your hands; avoid large, indoor gatherings; and get fully vaccinated as soon as possible," he added in a network news release.

Both of the new studies were done in Africa.

The Sisonke study used PCR testing from mid-November 2021 to Dec. 7, 2021, in asymptomatic people. It found the carriage rate was 16%.

The larger Ubuntu study found 31% asymptomatic carriage, or in 71 out of 230 samples between Dec. 2 and Dec. 17, 2021. All the samples available for sequencing analysis were verified to be Omicron.

Past studies on ancestral, Beta and Delta variants had asymptomatic transmission rates of between 1% and 2.6%, seven to 12 times less than with the Omicron samples, the researchers said.

The Ubuntu study began in early December with the goal of evaluating the effectiveness of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in people living with HIV.

The Sisonke research was a sub-study of a larger study that evaluated the effectiveness of a single dose of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. The sub-study evaluated immune responses and breakthrough infections in 1,200 health care workers, including those who are pregnant or breastfeeding or who have HIV. The study included 577 people vaccinated with Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine, with results suggesting a high carriage rate even in those known to be vaccinated.

"The larger studies were designed to analyze data at the intersection of COVID-19, vaccines and people living with HIV, but they also are giving us useful information about Omicron and how its spread differs from those of previous variants of concern," Dr. Glenda Gray, president of the South African Medical Research Council (SAMRC), said in an SAMRC news release.

Sub-Saharan Africa has been hit hard by both HIV and the COVID-19 pandemic, said Dr. Nigel Garrett, head of Vaccine and HIV Pathogenesis Research at the Center for the AIDS Program of Research in South Africa.

"Ubuntu and Sisonke will provide important data on safety, dosage and effectiveness of vaccines, but they already are helping us better understand the way this virus can change and how those changes affect transmission and severity. It is critical that we know how Omicron and other variants spread among those who are immunocompromised as well as those who are not," Garrett said.


Preliminary findings on both studies were published on the preprint server medRxiv, and have not been peer-reviewed.

"We are not yet able to determine how vaccination affects asymptomatic infection and spread," said Linda-Gail Bekker, director of the Desmond Tutu HIV Centre at the University of Cape Town. "We further need to devise strategies for rapid detection of asymptomatic carriage, particularly in long-term care facilities and hospitals, where transmission to high-risk populations may occur."

https://consumer.healthday.com/omicron-spread-2656251814.html
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
People who are infected but have no symptoms are still far more likely to infect others than they would have been with earlier variants, the data shows.

that can't be right, I recall in one of shells rants he declared it wasn't possible to spread the virus if you had no symptoms:stoopid
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Of course you can transmit the disease if you are asymptomatic. Indeed, this is when people are most likely to transmit the disease.

Shell, once again you are just wrong.

Not that you'll admit it though. This post will just inspire another soliloquy saying the exact same thing you've said a thousand times.
All this tells me, is that it is true BECAUSE YOU SAY IT'S TRUE! But lets read further, to find anything to back up your truth claim. I actually do need a verifiable reason, before I admit to anything. Or, at least some level of rational consistency.

"According to the CDC, most cases of transmission occur early in a person's infection, in the one or two days before the onset of symptoms, and in the two or three days afterwards.

People can be particularly infectious before they start displaying symptoms because they are less likely to take measures to limit the virus's spread."
I agree that in most cases, transmission of the virus occurs early in the infection. This is the time just before, or just after the virus uses the host's immune response to spread itself to new hosts. This is the time when the immune response is trying desperately to rid the body of the virus. If a person is infectious 1-2 days before, or 2-3 days after the onset of symptoms, this sounds to me, that on average, the person become infectious just after the onset of their symptoms(-2 + 3 = +1 days after onset of symptoms). According to your quote. Which makes sense, since our natural antibodies takes up to a couple of days to form. But as you obviously know, each person's immune system is different. And, each person's immune response is different. So, I don't disagree with this.

Whether an asymptomatic person is less likely to take measures to limit the possibility of transmitting the virus, is just speculation and supposition. Some asymptomatic people may experience headaches, fever, queasy stomach, or general malaise, as a pre-symptomatic condition. And, they may seek medical treatment for their conditions. But maybe you're right, or maybe you're wrong! I have no idea what they might, or might not do. So, lets see the data that supports your claim. With all the methods of government tracing, and from the millions tested, this should not be a problem. Surely, someone who tested positive and asymptomatic, and had infected someone else, would have been spotted in the last 2 years, right? We can certainly spot infected symptomatic people who had infected someone else.

But again, whether asymptomatic people are infectious(or not), or exactly when asymptomatic people become infected(or not) was never my point. My point was simple. What is the mechanism/method of transmission, by which asymptomatic hosts CAN transmit this virus to another host? Or, HOW do these people spread the virus?? I keep asking this, because you keep saying(without evidence) that asymptomatic people CAN BE infectious, and spread this virus. I agree that they can be infectious. But, how exactly can they spread this virus to others? Maybe when you stop making these statements, then I'll stop asking these question. Or, you can just keep saying that I'm just repeating myself as your default answer.

We now live in a country where 100% of the people suspect 100% of the people of being infected. Even though statistically around 90% of the population has never been infected in over 2 years. Insane!

A soliloquy!!! Really?? You really need a time out!!

 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Even Symptom-Free, People With Omicron Much More Likely to Spread COVID: Studies

MONDAY, Jan. 10, 2022 (HealthDay News) -- Researchers say they've uncovered a clue to why the Omicron variant spreads COVID-19 so much more rapidly than its predecessors.

People who are infected but have no symptoms are still far more likely to infect others than they would have been with earlier variants, the data shows.

"As we witness the quick, global spread of Omicron, it is clear that we urgently need a better understanding of the transmission dynamics of this variant," said senior study author Dr. Lawrence Corey. He is principal investigator of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center-based operations center of the COVID-19 Prevention Network.

"Since so many people may be asymptomatic, we can't always know who is carrying the virus, but we do know what we can do to protect ourselves and to help prevent further spread: Wear a mask; wash your hands; avoid large, indoor gatherings; and get fully vaccinated as soon as possible," he added in a network news release.

Both of the new studies were done in Africa.

The Sisonke study used PCR testing from mid-November 2021 to Dec. 7, 2021, in asymptomatic people. It found the carriage rate was 16%.

The larger Ubuntu study found 31% asymptomatic carriage, or in 71 out of 230 samples between Dec. 2 and Dec. 17, 2021. All the samples available for sequencing analysis were verified to be Omicron.

Past studies on ancestral, Beta and Delta variants had asymptomatic transmission rates of between 1% and 2.6%, seven to 12 times less than with the Omicron samples, the researchers said.

The Ubuntu study began in early December with the goal of evaluating the effectiveness of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in people living with HIV.

The Sisonke research was a sub-study of a larger study that evaluated the effectiveness of a single dose of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. The sub-study evaluated immune responses and breakthrough infections in 1,200 health care workers, including those who are pregnant or breastfeeding or who have HIV. The study included 577 people vaccinated with Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine, with results suggesting a high carriage rate even in those known to be vaccinated.

"The larger studies were designed to analyze data at the intersection of COVID-19, vaccines and people living with HIV, but they also are giving us useful information about Omicron and how its spread differs from those of previous variants of concern," Dr. Glenda Gray, president of the South African Medical Research Council (SAMRC), said in an SAMRC news release.

Sub-Saharan Africa has been hit hard by both HIV and the COVID-19 pandemic, said Dr. Nigel Garrett, head of Vaccine and HIV Pathogenesis Research at the Center for the AIDS Program of Research in South Africa.

"Ubuntu and Sisonke will provide important data on safety, dosage and effectiveness of vaccines, but they already are helping us better understand the way this virus can change and how those changes affect transmission and severity. It is critical that we know how Omicron and other variants spread among those who are immunocompromised as well as those who are not," Garrett said.


Preliminary findings on both studies were published on the preprint server medRxiv, and have not been peer-reviewed.

"We are not yet able to determine how vaccination affects asymptomatic infection and spread," said Linda-Gail Bekker, director of the Desmond Tutu HIV Centre at the University of Cape Town. "We further need to devise strategies for rapid detection of asymptomatic carriage, particularly in long-term care facilities and hospitals, where transmission to high-risk populations may occur."

https://consumer.healthday.com/omicron-spread-2656251814.html

Again, I am NOT questioning if asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people are infectious or not. Or, can they transmit this virus and infect others. I was just asking for the mechanism by which they can do this. "Viral shedding", seems to be the only mechanism I could find, that would allow asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people to shed their virus. That is, without inducing an immune response. But even vaccinations won't prevent "viral shedding". And, this mode of transmission requires very close contact. It is also very difficult to monitor and detect.

The studies that I have seen, were all population studies, and could only deduce that because the generation interval(time between 1 person infected who has infected another) was shorter than the serial interval(time 1 person developing symptoms, and the infected person developing symptoms), that this could only be explained by asymptomatic carriers infecting others. Maybe its true, or maybe it isn't. There might be other unknown factors involved.

But, at the end of the day, I would rather have an asymptomatic carrier having dinner in my home, than someone coughing and sneezing their guts out while I'm eating. But that's just me!
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho ๐Ÿ’‰๐Ÿ’‰
Staff member
There is no guarantee a more deadly form of the virus will not come along:

After the Omicron variant brought a fresh wave of SARS-CoV-2 infections and anxiety at the start of 2022, some nations are starting to record a decline in case numbers. But after two years of oscillating between pandemic surges and retreats, even people in these countries cannot help but wonder when the next blow will come โ€” and what form it will take.

โ€œI think it is inevitable that we will see new variants with varying degrees of immune evasion,โ€ says Andrew Rambaut, who studies viral evolution at the University of Edinburgh, UK. โ€œThey could emerge from wherever there is widespread transmission.โ€

As they wait for the next variant to enter the scene, scientists are studying the currently dominant Omicron variant to better predict the future; this research is described in a separate Feature. Here are three key questions scientists would like that research to answer.

When will the next variant of concern emerge?
There is no way to know for sure when a variant will become dominant, or whether it will rise to the status of a โ€˜variant of concernโ€™ โ€” meaning that there are signs that it has picked up worrying new properties, such as spreading more rapidly, causing more-severe disease or evading immune responses.

The public is most familiar with the first dominant sub-variants of Omicron and Delta. But researchers have been tracking a host of related sub-variants that are jockeying for dominance. In the United Kingdom, for example, one Delta variant called AY.4 was in the process of being rapidly displaced by another, called AY.4.2, in late 2021. โ€œAnd then Omicron came along and just blew up,โ€ says bioinformatician Andrew Page at the Quadram Institute in Norwich, UK.




Will Omicron end the pandemic? Hereโ€™s what experts say

The history of these viral dynamics suggests that a new variant will sweep through every few months, says Page. โ€œThey seem to happen quite regularly,โ€ he says. โ€œItโ€™s probably just going to tick along.โ€

But whether that variant will rise to the level of a variant of concern remains an open question. At present, the original BA.1 Omicron lineage is being replaced by another, called BA.2. This lineage, although probably more transmissible than BA.1, does not seem to be a major change from the original one that swept through many countries earlier this year.

Such dynamics are probably common in viral pathogens. But the world has not followed a viral infection so closely before, says Page, and as a result, scientists had been missing out on the fine print. That close scrutiny, however, is already diminishing: COVID-19 testing rates in the United Kingdom have declined, he notes, in part because Omicron tends to produce relatively mild disease. With a mild disease, people are less likely to seek testing, and governments become less proactive in encouraging tests.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00510-y
 
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