Ukraine

[HBS Guy]

What is Putin’s goal?

Reabsorb Ukraine back into Russia? According to ABC News that could be Putin’s ultimate wish:

Holy Russian Ground?

Doesn’t seem to be, according to wiki:

A chaotic period of warfare ensued after the Russian Revolutions of 1917. The partially-recognised Ukrainian People's Republic emerged from its own civil war of 1917–1921. The Ukrainian–Soviet War (1917–1921) followed, in which the Bolshevik Red Army established control in late 1919.[13] The Ukrainian Bolsheviks, who had defeated the national government in Kiev, established the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which on 30 December 1922 became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. Initial Soviet policy on Ukrainian language and Ukrainian culture made Ukrainian the official language of administration and schools. Policy in the 1930s turned to Russification. In 1932 and 1933, millions of people, mostly peasants, in Ukraine starved to death in a devastating famine, known as Holodomor. It is estimated by Encyclopædia Britannica that 6 to 8 million people died from hunger in the Soviet Union during this period, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians.[14] Nikita Khrushchev was appointed the head of the Ukrainian Communist Party in 1938.

Maybe the west should not have pushed for Ukraine to join NATO? The yanks have their Monroe doctrine maybe Russia feels it should not be bordered by NATO states—Ukraine and the Baltic States?

 

[SethBullock]

What is Putin’s goal?

Reabsorb Ukraine back into Russia? According to ABC News that could be Putin’s ultimate wish:

Holy Russian Ground?

Doesn’t seem to be, according to wiki:


Maybe the west should not have pushed for Ukraine to join NATO? The yanks have their Monroe doctrine maybe Russia feels it should not be bordered by NATO states—Ukraine and the Baltic States?

I usually have a strong opinion on questions like this, but this time I don't. I just can't predict where Putin will stop. I'm sure he would like to just take all of Ukraine, but I can't guess if he will. I find myself just watching to see what happens next. It wouldn't surprise me if he did, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't.

I do think that free nations around the world should close their embassies in Russia and send all Russians out their countries if he does, including all ambassadors and embassy staff, many of whom are KGB agents anyway. In fact, come to think of it, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start kicking all Russians out of free nations - visitors, business people, etc, now.

Meanwhile, all European nations should start bolstering their military capabilities. It is time for Europe to be fully prepared to defend themselves. They have a larger population than the US, a greater combined GDP than the US, and plenty of technological expertise. If they were to form a Pan-European Defense Force, it could equal the capabilities of the US and far out-class the Russian military.

It is, after all, their continent and their security. Their obligation should be to provide for their own security and quit depending on the US.

 

[HBS Guy]

Yeah, the Germans woulda kicked the shit out of Russian in the 1940s but for Hitler thinking he was a master strategist. . .so with France and the UK. . .

There is the nuclear deterrent.

 

[greggerypeccary]

He wants a large Russian empire. The bigger the better.

He's crazy, like all dictators.

No surprise at all to see that Trump is 100% behind Putin and is praising his actions.

 

[HBS Guy]

Or Mother Russia united again?

 

[SethBullock]

News reports are of a full scale attack on the country.

 

[HBS Guy]

LINK?

 

[HBS Guy]

Russian President Vladimir Putin launches invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy declares martial law
Posted 3h ago3 hours ago, updated 1m ago
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WATCH
Duration: 1 minute 41 seconds1m 41s

Vladimir Putin warns any direct attack against Russia would lead to defeat
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abc.net.au/news/vladimir-putin-launches-invasion-of-ukraine/100857650
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Russia's President Vladimir Putin has launched an invasion of Ukraine, moments after appearing live on television to say he has authorised a military operation in Ukraine's Donbas region.
Key points:

• Explosions and artillery fire have been heard Kyiv and Russian troops have reportedly landed in Ukraine's south
• Vladimir Putin says any attempt to interfere with the Russian invasion will lead to consequences
• Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he's declared martial law across Ukraine and has spoken to Joe Biden

Even as Mr Putin was still speaking, wires service Reuters reported witnesses in Kyiv hearing a series of distant, loud noises similar to the firing of artillery while others reported hearing explosions in Belgorod province, Russia.
A Fox News reporter also reported hearing explosions in the Ukraine capital.
At the same time, an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council was being held in New York.
During the address, broadcast in the early hours of the morning in Russia, Mr Putin said Russia did not intend to occupy Ukraine and the responsibility for any resultant bloodshed lies with the Ukrainian "regime".
Mr Putin said the action comes in response to threats coming from Ukraine.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-24/vladimir-putin-launches-invasion-of-ukraine/100857650

 

[HBS Guy]

FUCKWIT!

 

[greggerypeccary]

Live cam, Kyiv:

 

[johnsmith]

What is Putin’s goal?

It'll all depend on how this goes for him. If he he can gain control of these regions of the Ukraine, with little or no consequences, he'll continue to try and absorb the remainedr of the Ukraine and then move onto other areas so as to rebuild Russia into the Russian empire he has missed since the demise of the USSR.

If on the other hand winning these regions proves costly, he might decide to stop there and lick his wounds.

Hopefully someone will shoot him before this develops into a full scale WW3

 

[greggerypeccary]

Sad, but not surprising, to see worthless pieces of shit like Gordon (at OzPol) fully supporting Putin in this ordeal.

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

America is not a military ally of the Ukraine. Nor, is the Ukraine a member of NATO. The US, UK, and Russia have all violated the Budapest Memorandum. That is, to protect the Ukraine. And now they are backpaddling on this promise. They now call this agreement legally non-binding, and was meant only to mean military assurance. The Ukraine knew the threat that Russia posed to their sovereignty. Especially after Russia annexed Crimea and Sevastopol.

Let's just pray that the Ukraine really has destroyed ALL of the 3K nukes it inherited from the Russians. Because it will use everything it can to defend itself against the Russians. Even nukes!

All other countries should do nothing, except provide humanitarian aid and comfort. Military intervention by other countries, will only equate to more body-bags. So, no sanctioning, no posturing, and no closing down embassies(??).

 

[SethBullock]

America is not a military ally of the Ukraine. Nor, is the Ukraine a member of NATO. The US, UK, and Russia have all violated the Budapest Memorandum. That is, to protect the Ukraine. And now they are backpaddling on this promise. They now call this agreement legally non-binding, and was meant only to mean military assurance. The Ukraine knew the threat that Russia posed to their sovereignty. Especially after Russia annexed Crimea and Sevastopol.

Let's just pray that the Ukraine really has destroyed ALL of the 3K nukes it inherited from the Russians. Because it will use everything it can to defend itself against the Russians. Even nukes!

All other countries should do nothing, except provide humanitarian aid and comfort. Military intervention by other countries, will only equate to more body-bags. So, no sanctioning, no posturing, and no closing down embassies(??).

I think the non-military options should be taken against Russia. I think the free world should order all of its citizens to leave Russia. I think Russians who are in other countries should all be sent back to Russia - embassy staff, business people, students and visitors - all of them. All economic relations and trade should come to an abrupt halt.

 

[DreamRyderX]

Beware the Great Bear in the room.......One would have to wonder how many nukes does Russia still command, both above ground, & in it's world-wide fleet of nuclear subs sputtering all around the world, off of North America, off of Australia, off of Europe, off of China? I hope Putin has only gotten great news from his surgeons, & not that he has an inoperable terminal somethingorother........

 

[greggerypeccary]

I think the non-military options should be taken against Russia. I think the free world should order all of its citizens to leave Russia. I think Russians who are in other countries should all be sent back to Russia - embassy staff, business people, students and visitors - all of them. All economic relations and trade should come to an abrupt halt.

Why would you want to punish innocent people?

 

[SethBullock]

Why would you want to punish innocent people?

Hi Greg,

It’s not out of some desire to punish individual Russians. It just doesn’t seem right to me to let Russians and Americans travel back and forth for business or tourism as if all was normal while the Russian government is raping Ukraine.

Other than to facilitate the return of people to their own countries, I think the time has come to take a pause from international travel to and from Russia and the civilized world.

It has nothing to do with punishing innocent people. Imprisonment would be punishing them, not merely sending them home.

 

[Aussie]

Ukraine must have people in Russia. Some nifty 'terrorist' attacks around Moscow might help get the attention of the Russian people that they are in a War......and thus put some pressure on Putin inside Russia.

 

[DreamRyderX]

Ukraine must have people in Russia. Some nifty 'terrorist' attacks around Moscow might help get the attention of the Russian people that they are in a War......and thus put some pressure on Putin inside Russia.

Pressure to win the war decisively, realizing the Russian/ex-Soviet mindset.....

 

[Shellandshilo1956]

I think the non-military options should be taken against Russia. I think the free world should order all of its citizens to leave Russia. I think Russians who are in other countries should all be sent back to Russia - embassy staff, business people, students and visitors - all of them. All economic relations and trade should come to an abrupt halt.

I think before we start using police or military actions to deport all Russian citizens back to Russia, or to violate international law by forcing the closure of embassies, we should take a step back to think. Embassy staff, business people, students and visitors have nothing to do with Russia's internal conflict with the Ukraine. This is a state matter, not a civil matter. Why should these people be thrown under the bus? And, trade sanctions always negatively affect both the target country, and the imposing country. Prices on goods go up, unemployment goes up, and only the poor will suffer the most. And, since China is their top import/export trade partner, these sanction will only be a nuisance at best.

What does any of this have to do with any of us? How is our sovereignty as a country, or a people threatened by Russia's actions? This is none of our business, and we should stay out of it. Before we talk ourselves into ending the human race. And, then realize that it might not have been such a good idea at the time.