Trigger happy Yanks

MilesAway

Bongalong
A. Total population did not get covid
B. that figure is with most of the countries implementing social distancing and other measures to prevent the spread .. otherwise the numbers would be a lot higher
Excellent points: the most salient infact!
 
England 365,000 infected , 41,600 dead, divide those and you get 8.8 not 7.5
No genius. The stats you have deposited are for the United Kingdom, NOT ENGLAND. Looks like you and Trump don't know the difference. The covid-19 death toll in England is currently 36,765 deaths(NOT 41,623 deaths). This means that 36,765 deaths(IN ENGLAND)/ 279,000 total cases(IN ENGLAND) = 0.131 deaths per total cases(IN ENGLAND). This is 13 deaths in 100 cases, or 1.3 deaths in 10 cases. Or, finally 1 death in 7.69 cases(NOT 8.8). So yes closer to yesterday's 7.5 I said, than your 8.8 blatant peddling of disinformation. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts and logic.

Think about it on the first wave we had 7000 infections and 100 deaths... the next one we are in is 19,000 infections and 700 deaths and still going.. I for one don't give a rats ass about 99.999 percent of the world infected rubbish rubbish.
No! You think about it genius. I thought the idea of shutting down our economy, putting people on the dole, suspending their freedoms and civil liberties, and forcing them into isolation and distancing, was suppose to prevent any 2nd wave at all. Instead, even with all of this nonsense being practiced, we still had a 3 fold increase in total number of infections, and a 7 fold increase in total number of deaths. These actions don't seem to be working by any standard of scrutiny. Just how many more goal posts are you going to keep shifting, to keep you blissfully happy, ignorant, and in denial?

There are 26.8M people infected with covid-19 in the world. This represents 0.36% of the total world's population. This also means that 99.64 of the world's population are NOT infected, not confirmed infected, or are unaware of being infected. In Australia, there are 26,603 people infected with covid-19. This represents 0.1% of the total Australian population. This also means that 99.9% of the total population are NOT infected, not confirmed infected, or are unaware of being infected. Clearly, you are willing to destroy the lives of others based only on your unjustified fears of what COULD happen here, and not what IS happening here. Your entire rationale is based only on cognitive dissonance and the need to have others think for you. NOT ON THE OBJECTIVE FACTS!!!

You may not give a rat's ass about the reality of what the facts represent. But, the facts are NOT rubbish. Just because they don't agree with your self-serving narrative, they are no less real or true. So, keep changing the goal post every time your assertions are challenged. You just can't force-fit reality to fit your own personal truths. And, you certainly will have buckleys of convincing any rational thinker of those truths. So, let fear be your motivator. The government is truly counting on that.

I care that if Queenland get's a out break we could easily have a death toll like England with 1 out of every 9 infected dead... I don't want to have to say goodbye to friends and family yet because of C-19.....

Really? The perfect straw man argument? IF we get a new outbreak! IF our death toll is like England. Queensland could have a death toll like England. How do you know what could happen here? You don't have a clue. None of your concerns have happened in the last 235 days. Why should we assume now that something will happen here, just because it happened elsewhere? Do Australia and England have the exact same demographics and other variables? What specific information do you have that others don't have? No, you are just fear mongering, with half-truths, distorted facts, and trying only to appeal to the emotions of others(pathos). Just like the government.

8 out of 9 people will survive in England
That still doesn't sound like good odds to me Shell...
Oh I don't know. I think anyone on this forum wouldn't mind betting on anything with an almost 90% chance of winning. Including yourself. Also, why did you only pick the 8 in 9, instead of the 32 in 33, or the 29 in 30? More of the same blatant disinformation, and half truths you keep peddling. You are a good government man. Good boy.
 

MilesAway

Bongalong
90 percent are not good odds, unless you're a maniac, when it comes to the chances of life versus death: but if those percentages are grossly incorrect then you have an arguable point.

The point I'm making is that yours aren't either!
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
I think you missed my point Shell . Not blunt enough I guess.

We are told that there are least 4 to 12 times as many actual cases, as are so far reported, AND this has happened in less than a year.
eg.. 12 x 29,000,000 are possibly infected right now.

You think it's going away.? Hopefully we will still be arguing about this a years hence. I wonder.. then how many will be infected..??
Hope no-one is thinking of Overseas holidays any time soon. .
 
...you're obviously not a stats wiz: a 2 year old kid could tell you that you're corrupt :gun swirl
Miles, do you know what the word "deepity" means? It was a word used by Daniel Dennett(renown atheist), to describe any statements that sound profound and logical, but in reality were absolutely meaningless.

I have no idea what the relationship is between being a stats whiz and being corrupt. Or, how a 2 year old with no reading and language skills, could possibly understand the meaning of the word corruption.

You really need to stop getting advice from your pet hamster before you post, and actually read a book.

90 percent are not good odds, unless you're a maniac, when it comes to the chances of life versus death: but if those percentages are grossly incorrect then you have an arguable point.
The point I'm making is that yours aren't either!
"The point I'm making is that yours aren't either!"??? Another "deepity". People do not CHOOSE to be infected by any disease. And, only the most dim-witted of moron would think that a 90+% survival prognosis was NOT very good odds. Also, if the stats I've posited are grossly incorrect, then there would be no need for an argument. It would just be obvious, and easy to prove. But the stats ARE correct, and easily verifiable. So, please point out why the stats may be grossly incorrect, or why a 90+% survival rate is NOT very good odds? Never mind, you can't. Just more huff and bluff.
 
I think you missed my point Shell . Not blunt enough I guess.

We are told that there are least 4 to 12 times as many actual cases, as are so far reported, AND this has happened in less than a year.
eg.. 12 x 29,000,000 are possibly infected right now.

You think it's going away.? Hopefully we will still be arguing about this a years hence. I wonder.. then how many will be infected..??
Hope no-one is thinking of Overseas holidays any time soon. .
As I have stated before, I can only respond to what is real and verifiable, and not what is just supposed. Many countries also make no distinction between those dying WITH the Coronavirus, and those dying BECAUSE of Covid-19. They simply include both in their total death toll. I can only deal with the cards I'm dealt. Since people can make-up or say whatever they want, the real question is, what is it that you want to believe? A verifiable truth? Or, an unverifiable belief? There are billions of people around the world whose entire lives are determined by an unverifiable belief. I base my decisions and understandings, only on verifiable truths. That is, verifiable and objective facts. People will lie for whatever reasons, but the facts don't.

Again, the question is, what is it that you want to believe. If you want to believe that the total number of infected represent only the tip of the iceberg, then believe it. If you want to believe that we will be under lock-down forever, because this virus will never go away, then believe it. If you want to believe that this virus will keep killing people, until there is not one person left standing, then believe it. If you want to believe that you should isolate yourself from the rest of the world, then believe that too. I am NOT interested in only believing what is true. I'm only interested in knowing what is true. If I can't show it, then I don't know it.

Hope no-one is thinking of Overseas holidays any time soon. .
Unfortunately, even this freedom has also been suspended by this government. There is a ban on all overseas flights, unless you can get a special exemption from the Dept. of Home Affairs.
 
A. Total population did not get covid
B. that figure is with most of the countries implementing social distancing and other measures to prevent the spread .. otherwise the numbers would be a lot higher
John I said that 917,000 confirmed cases in the world, divided by a world population of 7,800,000,000 people. Where have I said anything about the entire world getting covid-19. NOWHERE!! So why are you saying that, "The total population did not get covid."? Who said that it did? The 917K only represents a percentage of the entire world population. Try and keep up will you, without using this silly straw man.

B. that figure is with most of the countries implementing social distancing and other measures to prevent the spread .. otherwise the numbers would be a lot higher
And, how do you know this John? How do you know that these confirmed cases figures are only from countries practicing closing down their economies, and isolating their people? What evidence can you provide that will demonstrates, that hospitals, doctors, medical centers, Covid-19 testing facilities, or other OECD countries, are withholding submitting their figures to the World Health Organization, or the Center for Disease Control and Prevention? Never mind, it is so, because you say it is so, right?

We DON'T KNOW that if we did nothing but treat the illness, and not destroy our country and the people, that the numbers would be a lot higher. That is just an assumption without any evidence to back it up. In fact, the death toll from viruses, epidemics, pandemics, or plague, have never reached more than 1% of the world's total population. Even the 60M total deaths this year, will only represent 0.7% of the world's population.

Also, the preventative measure to stop the spread of this virus, is just not working. The virus will stop spreading, only as more and more people become immune. And, less and less people are left to spread it. Just like we have seen with all the other viruses before this one. This is how evolution works. I always get a giggle when you brag about how many hundreds of new cases are happening each day, and in the same breath, say that these preventative actions are working and stopping the spread of the virus. The logic is just mind-boggling.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Oh you mean like Tony Abbott.
Did you see the interview of Peter Dutton ,? By Mr Spiers of the ABC ? It made the News.
Big time.

I admit I felt my jaw had unhinged. :jawdrop:jawdrop

Mate I don't need your permission to believe what I believe...... :up yours

AND you choose to ignore my point again.

Numbers reported do not equal actual numbers.. either of infections or deaths.
Do you agree.? Would you also agree that the actual numbers are hugely unreported.?
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Also, the preventative measure to stop the spread of this virus, is just not working. The virus will stop spreading,................................. and less people are left to spread it.
Just like we have seen with all the other viruses before this one. This is how evolution works. I always get a giggle when you brag about how many hundreds of new cases are happening each day, and in the same breath, say that these preventative actions are working and stopping the spread of the virus. The logic is just mind-boggling.
Get a grip.
Where do YOU LIVE.?
WE DON'T have hundreds of NEW infections a day .. which is the whole point... DOH. Perhaps you should engage brain before making such sweeping statements.

Where DO you live.. apart from your many mansions of the mind.?
I'd say VIC... but he claims he lives in QLD...
HUH.?

Don't think so Pancho.!
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Oh you mean like Tony Abbott.
Did you see the interview of Peter Dutton ,? By Mr Spiers of the ABC ? It made the News.
Big time.

I admit I felt my jaw had unhinged. :jawdrop:jawdrop

Mate I don't need your permission to believe what I believe...... :up yours

AND you choose to ignore my point again.

Numbers reported do not equal actual numbers.. either of infections or deaths.
Do you agree.? Would you also agree that the actual numbers are hugely unreported.?
anything to say?
at all ?
 
Oh you mean like Tony Abbott.
Did you see the interview of Peter Dutton ,? By Mr Spiers of the ABC ? It made the News.Big time.I admit I felt my jaw had unhinged. :jawdrop:jawdrop
Mate I don't need your permission to believe what I believe...... :up yours
AND you choose to ignore my point again.

Numbers reported do not equal actual numbers.. either of infections or deaths.
Do you agree.? Would you also agree that the actual numbers are hugely unreported.?
Do you really think that these blood sucking, ego-driven, self-absorbed, bureaucratic actors, give a shit about you?. They are just highly paid entertainers, putting on a performance for you. It is irrelevant if the performance is good or bad, as long as you remember it, and talk about it. They all belong to the same club, regardless of which side of the house they are on. Their job is to work for the people, not the other way around.

No one is giving you permission to believe in anything. So spare me the fake outrage. Or, your silly straw man. I have given up responding to whatever the point you were trying to make. I have been down this road before, and no matter how many times I respond to your point, you just keep changing the goal post, while claiming that I still haven't responded. I'm not going down that rabbit hole again. Find another huckleberry. If you don't like my response, then point it out and explain why, not just simply say that I haven't responded. Because I think I have.

Numbers reported do not equal actual numbers.. either of infections or deaths.
Do you agree.? Would you also agree that the actual numbers are hugely unreported.?
What I do know, is that the numbers of actual confirmed cases of covid-19 can be easily verified. I know that the numbers of deaths from covid-19 can also be verified. All covid-19 cases in hospitals, private practices, medical centers, and aged care facilities and private home care, in Australia can also be verified. The demographics of covid-19 patients can certainly be verified. Are the stats fluid and dynamic? Yes. Do I believe that the numbers reported are the actual numbers? Yes. Do I believe that there are people with covid-19, that are in bed recovering, and not included in the stats? Yes. Do I think that the numbers of actual confirmed cases are grossly under-reported. The answer is, that it is irrelevant. If a person becomes too sick, he will be hospitalized, or will visit a doctor. He will then be added to the stats. If he dies at home, he will then be added to the stats. And, for those that survive naturally, will become immune to the virus, and can't spread the virus anyway. So irrelevant!! If you don't think that the numbers are accurate, then prove it. Or, again, do you just believe that they are?

I don't give a shit how many people are sick with this virus. I only care about how many will survive. If Australians began dying in the millions, then there would be a justifiable reason for alarm. This would certainly justify any preventative measures by the government. But 701 elderly people? No. Not with over 90% of the Australian population not infected. NO!

Where do YOU LIVE.?
WE DON'T have hundreds of NEW infections a day .. which is the whole point... DOH. Perhaps you should engage brain before making such sweeping statements.
Wow, how quickly we forget. The total number of cases of covid-19 is 26,651 in 236 days. That is an average of 113 new cases per day. There have been new cases of over 400 per day during this period. Especially the period during the lock-down. Do I really need to go back and point out all the dates for you? And, what is the relevant about where I live?

I live in Queensland.
 

DonDeeHippy

Active member
There are 26.8M people infected with covid-19 in the world. This represents 0.36% of the total world's population. This also means that 99.64 of the world's population are NOT infected, not confirmed infected, or are unaware of being infected. In Australia, there are 26,603 people infected with covid-19. This represents 0.1% of the total Australian population. This also means that 99.9% of the total population are NOT infected
Ok lets look at America, a country not much different to us.....they have 2% of the population infected, that's 20 times the infection we have in Australia, this is what happens when there is just a half arsed attempt at locking down...
20 times our death rate would be 16,000 dead....
Two percent of our population is 500,000 if we have a death rate like England with of 1 out every 7.5 people dead that would be 66,000 dead..
As far a locking down lets just look at Sweden and Norway, neighbors.. Sweden didn't lock down and 5800 deaths, Norway did and had 256 deaths with half the population.. Even Sweden had to lock-down some, when deaths went spiraling and would of had more if they didn't.

We don't know how bad infections and deaths will tally up, we can only look at other countries that are like us to see what could happen....





No genius. The stats you have deposited are for the United Kingdom, NOT ENGLAND. Looks like you and Trump don't know the difference. The covid-19 death toll in England is currently 36,765 deaths(NOT 41,623 deaths). This means that 36,765 deaths(IN ENGLAND)/ 279,000 total cases(IN ENGLAND) = 0.131 deaths per total cases(IN ENGLAND). This is 13 deaths in 100 cases, or 1.3 deaths in 10 cases. Or, finally 1 death in 7.69 cases(NOT 8.8). So yes closer to yesterday's 7.5 I said, than your 8.8 blatant peddling of disinformation. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts and logic.
Ahh your right i did say England not UK, so Scotland and wales are there as well.

It's even worse
1 in 7 die from Catching C-19 in England....

this is from a country with a better health system than us and they are a island...... yeah Id rather QLD have it's borders closed with us all working like we are now than having 1 out of every 7 people dying that catch Covid in a new breakout....

I can't say with certainty it would be that bad, but then you can't be certain it wouldn't...That's the point, we don't know how bad the death rate can be... Looking at other countries like us though, we can get a good picture...

you can keep on being a tin foil hat, bat shit crazy conspirator, as that's the official term for people like you straight from the Victorian Police...

Luke Cornelius for PM
 
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MilesAway

Bongalong
Miles, do you know what the word "deepity" means? It was a word used by Daniel Dennett(renown atheist), to describe any statements that sound profound and logical, but in reality were absolutely meaningless.

I have no idea what the relationship is between being a stats whiz and being corrupt. Or, how a 2 year old with no reading and language skills, could possibly understand the meaning of the word corruption.

You really need to stop getting advice from your pet hamster before you post, and actually read a book.



"The point I'm making is that yours aren't either!"??? Another "deepity". People do not CHOOSE to be infected by any disease. And, only the most dim-witted of moron would think that a 90+% survival prognosis was NOT very good odds. Also, if the stats I've posited are grossly incorrect, then there would be no need for an argument. It would just be obvious, and easy to prove. But the stats ARE correct, and easily verifiable. So, please point out why the stats may be grossly incorrect, or why a 90+% survival rate is NOT very good odds? Never mind, you can't. Just more huff and bluff.
You're a fucking loser mate! :applause
 
Ok lets look at America, a country not much different to us.....they have 2% of the population infected, that's 20 times the infection we have in Australia, this is what happens when there is just a half arsed attempt at locking down...
20 times our death rate would be 16,000 dead....
Two percent of our population is 500,000 if we have a death rate like England with of 1 out every 7.5 people dead that would be 66,000 dead..
As far a locking down lets just look at Sweden and Norway, neighbors.. Sweden didn't lock down and 5800 deaths, Norway did and had 256 deaths with half the population.. Even Sweden had to lock-down some, when deaths went spiraling and would of had more if they didn't.

We don't know how bad infections and deaths will tally up, we can only look at other countries that are like us to see what could happen....
Do you know what an argument from ignorance is? It is a fallacious argument that isn't proof of anything. Except that you don't know something. Also, look up irrelevant conclusions, cognitive bias, non sequitur, or any of the causality fallacies you keep committing. Let me explain, AGAIN.

What is the DIRECT causal link, between the covid-19 deaths in England, Sweden, Norway, or the United States, and AUSTRALIA? NONE!! The people in those countries being infected or dying, have no causal relationship with Australia. Anything they do in those countries, have no direct link to Australia. Their stats have no relevance to Australian stats. Whether these countries lock-down or not, has no effect on Australian stats. And, there is no direct causality between any effective lock-down, and the spread of the virus. I hope you don't think that space and hygiene are the causal links. They ain't!!

Look, if you want to just make up false connections, false causes, and false conclusions, then go for it. No rational thinker cares. This is the same fear-mongering that the government uses to scare children. But, I suppose that if the stats here don't justify shutting down our economy, putting a million Australians out of work, suspending the basic rights and freedoms of the people, and forcing 99.9% uninfected Australians to isolate themselves from each other, then I guess you would have no choice, but to use the stats from other countries, to create straw man arguments of "what if's" and "what might's". I will just stick to the relevant stats of what IS happening here in Australia.

How can we avoid a virus that is smaller than visible light? How can we avoid a virus that can remain in the air for up to 3 hrs, or on some surfaces for days? How can you destroy something that is NOT even alive, until it infects you? The simple answer is, WE CAN'T. Only the body can fight the virus. The body will develop its own antibodies to fight this virus, and make the host immune. All we can do now is treat the illnesses caused by the virus. Our resources should be going into that.

Clearly, shutting down our country, and isolating its people, has NOT stopped the spread of this virus. And, saying if we didn't lock-down, that things would be much worse, is only an argument from ignorance, and a silly excuse for failure. We've done nothing since the first coronavirus, and we are still here. Covid-19 will only stop, when more and more people become immune, and less and less people are left to be infected. That is it. Our only response should have been, to treat the illness, provide the information, and let people voluntarily do the right thing. Just like we have done for the last 60 years.

this is from a country with a better health system than us and they are a island...... yeah Id rather QLD have it's borders closed with us all working like we are now than having 1 out of every 7 people dying that catch Covid in a new breakout....
I can't say with certainty it would be that bad, but then you can't be certain it wouldn't...That's the point, we don't know how bad the death rate can be... Looking at other countries like us though, we can get a good picture...
So what? What has any of this got to do with Australia? Just because 1 in 7.68 infected people are dying in England, it has nothing to do with the 1 in 33 infected people dying in Australia. It doesn't matter if England is also an island, or have a better healthcare system. I'm curious, what is the average age of those dying, in a country where 16% of its population is over 65 years old?

Since you can cherry-pick any country you want, you can choose which country's stats will give you the picture you want(confirmation bias), or the narrative you want(false conclusion). It is just being intellectually dishonest. What's the matter? The stats here not working out for you? Do you ever deposit even one shred of evidence to support WHY? Clearly you have no idea if any of your nonsense would happen IF it were here. But this is the purpose of fear-mongering. It makes people only focus on what COULD happen in Australia, and ignore what IS actually happening in Australia. Truly sad.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
in the end.. we are all humans.. regardless of where we live.

All the same on so many levels.

If France can have 10,000 new cases yesterday, so could we, if we were not behaving differently.

Say what you like.. I support Border Restrictions. I too live in QLD.:oldman:rolleyes:
 
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