Pastor. "I Do Not Cooperate With Nazis!"

Texan

Active member
Police showed up during church services with 6 armed officers to shut down a church that was open in violation of government orders. The pastor met them at the door and drove them off. I really like this guy. He handled them like a pro.

 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
so you encourage people to ignore the rules Tex? I wonder is that all the time or just when you personally don't agree with the rules?
 

Texan

Active member
I realize this is in Canada and not America, but the right to worship is a fundamental right and I support it.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I realize this is in Canada and not America, but the right to worship is a fundamental right and I support it.
Unfortunately, there are no fundamental civil liberties and individual rights in Australia. These fundamental rights(freedom, religion, speech, equality, educational and cultural, press, assembly, petition the government, etc.), are NOT protected by any Constitution in Australia. They are only privileges in Australia. In America, it would be UNconstitutional to ignore, or take away any of these fundamental rights. The government could be sued for Billions. Although these rights are not absolute, they are still protected by the Constitution. The government cannot simple legislate, suspend, ignore, or take away any of these rights, anytime it wants to. And, certainly not for a virus that is 98+% NON-fatal. And, has only infected less than 0.001% of the entire population.

We are talking about 910 people dying over a 459 day period from this virus. That less than 2 people in Australia dying from this virus each day. Is this worth suspending, dismissing, or ignoring our fundamental freedoms? Of course not.

I hope to see people who actually care about their civil rights and liberties, at the freedom rally on May 15th at the Botanical Garden(12pm) in Brisbane.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
so you encourage people to ignore the rules Tex? I wonder is that all the time or just when you personally don't agree with the rules?
you avoided answering my question Tex ... why is that?
Anyone would. The questions you ask are loaded and presumptuous. They make the false assumptions, and give a false choice, that assumes,

the person IS encouraging others to ignore the rules
the person IS ignoring the rule ALL the time
the person IS ignoring the rules whenever they personally disagrees with them.
or, giving the person a false choice, "I wonder is that all the time or just when you personally don't agree with the rules".

How about when these rules are wrong, divisive, discriminative, illegal, unnecessary, repressive, or even dangerous? Should we never question them at all?

No matter how you answer these questions, guilt will always be inferred. So, until the questions are reframed to NOT include the answers in the question, it is best not to answer them at all. This avoids the next question(no matter the answer), to defend a position that you don't even have.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
How about when these rules are wrong, divisive, discriminative, illegal, unnecessary, repressive, or even dangerous? Should we never question them at all?
so if you don't like the rules you ignore them?

Should we never question them at all?
the guy in the article didn't 'question' anything, he deliberately ignored the rules. Cops should have dragged him away in handcuffs.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
so if you don't like the rules you ignore them?
That's NOT what I said was it? Let' me ask you the same type of question that you burden others with, "Do you enjoy NOT always telling the truth? Do you always tell lies, or only when it suits you? Please try not to avoid answering these questions.

the guy in the article didn't 'question' anything, he deliberately ignored the rules. Cops should have dragged him away in handcuffs.
From his actions you conclude that this person not only deliberately ignored this rule, but all rules as well. And, that cops should have dragged him away in cuffs. Be careful, Karma can be a real bitch with that attitude.

and yet you answered despite the question NOT being directed at you. Tell me, do you really think Tex is incapable of answering?
Firstly you should really practice what you preach, John. Secondly, I think Texan is more than capable of defending himself. ESPECIALLY, against anything that you have to say.
 

Texan

Active member
I already answered. If a fundamental (Constitutional) right is violated by a law i have no problem with someone ignoring it. If they outlaw free speech, guns, or free worship then I will become a criminal and I support those who are dealing with this problem already
 

Squire

Active member
I already answered. If a fundamental (Constitutional) right is violated by a law i have no problem with someone ignoring it. If they outlaw free speech, guns, or free worship then I will become a criminal and I support those who are dealing with this problem already
US society comprises 45% loosely associated Bible-quoting, war-loving, anarchists, like Texan, 45% freedom-loving humanists, and 10% unaligned apolitical people.

These anarchists are quick to take offence to any action they deem a personal intrusion.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
That's NOT what I said was it?
but it is what you are arguing for

"Do you enjoy NOT always telling the truth?
no, thats why I always try to tell the truth

Do you always tell lies, or only when it suits you?
When it suits me

whats so hard about that Shell? It's only when you are lying that telling the truth becomes difficult

From his actions you conclude that this person not only deliberately ignored this rule, but all rules as well.
what fucken 'ALL' rules? Are you on drugs? Do you even know what the article was about?

Firstly you should really practice what you preach, John.
Except that I'm not the one telling everyone that no one should answer

If a fundamental (Constitutional) right is violated by a law i have no problem with someone ignoring it.
and the rights of those that don't wish to catch covid?
I think you Americans use the constitution as a handy 'get out of jail' excuse for all sorts of foolishness. The constitution is just another set of man made rules. Ignoring one set of rules because of another set of man made rules is ludicrous.
 

Texan

Active member
but it is what you are arguing for


no, thats why I always try to tell the truth


When it suits me

whats so hard about that Shell? It's only when you are lying that telling the truth becomes difficult



what fucken 'ALL' rules? Are you on drugs? Do you even know what the article was about?


Except that I'm not the one telling everyone that no one should answer


and the rights of those that don't wish to catch covid?
I think you Americans use the constitution as a handy 'get out of jail' excuse for all sorts of foolishness. The constitution is just another set of man made rules. Ignoring one set of rules because of another set of man made rules is ludicrous.
That's America. All laws are to be in agreement with our Constitution or they are invalid.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
but it is what you are arguing for
No. It isn't. Please stick to arguing over what I've actually said. And, NOT why I am arguing, or what you think I meant to say. Okay?

no, thats why I always try to tell the truth
This can be interpreted to mean, that you DO enjoy NOT always telling the truth. And, that this is the reason why you TRY to always tell the truth. Can you now see the problem with answering presumptuous questions? Never mind, you can't.

When it suits me

whats so hard about that Shell? It's only when you are lying that telling the truth becomes difficult
So, you always tells lies when it suits you, John? Are you lying now John, because it suits you? I do agree that if you are lying through your teeth, that you are also not telling the truth. Stating the obvious is clearly your greatest fortés.

what fucken 'ALL' rules? Are you on drugs? Do you even know what the article was about?
Since you didn't specifically state WHAT rule the church was in violation of(China-virus orders), and said that Texan was encouraging others to break the rules, I wasn't clear WHAT rules you were talking about. So I assumed that you meant all the Covid-19 lockdown rules, that you are told to follow like sheep.

I have nothing but respect for this pastor, for his courage, and his social insight. He, unlike others, could see just how easy fascism could get a foothold in the door. I also have respect for the cops who knew just how insane kicking people out of church would be. Arresting worshippers in their church was certainly NOT in their job description.

Texan stated "I wasn't looking to catch the virus, but I wasn't willing give up my way of life to avoid it.". This is very profound and socially enlightening. In America, the freedom to worship/assembly is protected by the Constitution. Cops are NOT going to come to a place of worship, to tell people to leave for violating some Covid-19 assembly rules. But this certainly can happen in Australian, where all civil liberties are only a privilege at best.

Except that I'm not the one telling everyone that no one should answer....?
Wow, another blatant misrepresentation. You accused me of butting into your conversation. I stated that you should practice what you preach. Meaning that you have butted in my(and others) conversations on many occasions.

Also my comment about not answering questions, was specifically about WHY people should not answer LOADED AND PRESUMPTUOUS questions. This is certainly my opinion. I guess that's why this nonsense response.

and the rights of those that don't wish to catch covid?
I think you Americans use the constitution as a handy 'get out of jail' excuse for all sorts of foolishness. The constitution is just another set of man made rules. Ignoring one set of rules because of another set of man made rules is ludicrous.
Are you seriously suggesting that there are rights for those TO catch Covid-19? That's silly, and another one of your all-to-familiar straw man arguments. Especially, since no one wants to be infected by this virus. What's next, imprisoning people who knowingly/wilfully infect others? Thank God, there is a growing overwhelming majority of people, who are willing to stand up to this kind of oppressing, and take back their rights to become free again. If you are healthy, you will recover. If not, get vaccinated!

Conflating the Constitution of the United States, as "just another set of man-made rules", only exposes the shallow depths of your political understanding. America, not only fought England for its freedom, but also created the architecture for its own government. Britain takes no part in the affairs of governance in the US. Australia however, is still attached to Britain through the Governor General of Australia. Australia will always be part of the British Commonwealth. Do you know how many Republic referendums have failed since 1999? So, the Constitutions is NOT just some man-made set of rules. It is a DYNAMIC set of rules that will never be static. A set of rules that can adapt to any changes in our society. It IS the law of the land. Those other set of rules you mentioned, are also afforded/allowed by the Constitution.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
his can be interpreted to mean, that you DO enjoy NOT always telling the truth. And, that this is the reason why you TRY to always tell the truth. Can you now see the problem with answering presumptuous questions? Never mind, you can't.
quite frankly how you interpret it is your problem. Not mine. I'll ask questions as I see fit.


No. It isn't. Please stick to arguing over what I've actually said. And, NOT why I am arguing, or what you think I meant to say. Okay?
But that's how I interpreted it ... Can you see your problem with answering it that way?:U

So, you always tells lies when it suits you, John?
not always

Are you lying now John, because it suits you?
you'll never know

I have nothing but respect for this pastor, for his courage, and his social insight.
of course you do. Meanwhile, I have nothing but contempt for him. Risking the lives of his 'flock' so that he can bignote himself to a few gullible fools.

Are you seriously suggesting that there are rights for those TO catch Covid-19?
WTF? Stay of the drugs ... seriously. Just stop it. Throw the needle away for fucks sake. You rarely make sense at the best of times.
 
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