Morrison defends mostly peaceful protesters - the left loose their minds!

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
That proves nothing. For all you know there are countless business owners who had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed!
Then you would just be arguing from ignorance. For all we know there could be a spaghetti monster!

Alright, so is your point that it is hypocritical that
there is no vaccine mandate for Federal MP's?
Correct!

There is no possible way that you could know that.
Yes. There were none before, and now there are some later. Do you think that any business that adopted the jab or be fired, or be tested or be fired, could stay below the radar?

Well Qantas wasn't threatened with fines or arrests if they did not adopt a national vaccine mandate for employees. So why did they do it?
Because it does exactly that! Avoids them from being threatened with fines or arrests. Remember Morrison had already stated that healthcare and the airline industries should adopt these mandates.

Well that's a good point, but it only applies to vaccination requirements for customers entering businesses. I would say that it would be extremely unlikely that there would be anywhere NEAR the level of vaccination requirements for customers entering businesses if it wasn't for government mandates. However, I think that many still would, one reason being that they think that by requiring vaccination, they are making their business safer and without requiring vaccination they think they would loose customers.
But we are talking about vaccine mandates for staff, and while I can point to Qantas as an example of that, I am not aware of any business which is not required by government to check customer vaccine status, but does so anyway. But do any exist? I guess there are likely some out there. Who knows.
I would say that there would be "BUCKLEY'S" chance of any business owner who would impose ANY mandates, if not for these government sanctions. I believe that these business owners care more about the money than the vaccine status of the customer. This is NOT a point, it's just common sense.

If you believe that owners care more about the safety of their staff and customers, than they do about their profits, then I'm afraid that history does not support you. But this is just your opinion.

"I am not aware of any business which is not required by government to check customer vaccine status, but does so anyway. But do any exist? I guess there are likely some out there. Who knows.".

There ARE businesses that REFUSE to ask their customers to show proof of vaccination. Many you can find easily on YouTube. They believe that their customer's vaccine status is none of their business. And, I agree with them. We have gone mad, and keep fixation on vaccines. We don't even care if over 99% of the entire population is not even infected. This fixation is madness!

Why are you only fixated on these mandates? You know that they are wrong, so move on. These are vaccines for Christ sakes. These are NOT cures!!
 

chris155au

Active member
Then you would just be arguing from ignorance. For all we know there could be a spaghetti monster!
I don't think you know what arguing from ignorance actually is. See below for the definition and then think about the fact that I did not assert that any proposition is true.

"Argument from ignorance, also known as appeal to ignorance, is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proved true." www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

So it's hypocritical that there is no vaccine mandate for Federal MP's because of the the federal vaccine mandate for aged care workers?

Yes. There were none before, and now there are some later.
What does this have to do with "inspiration?"

Do you think that any business that adopted the jab or be fired, or be tested or be fired, could stay below the radar?
Stay below the radar in what sense?

Because it does exactly that! Avoids them from being threatened with fines or arrests.
Why the hell would Qantas be threatened with fines or arrests if they were not required to adopt a national vaccine mandate for employees?

I would say that there would be "BUCKLEY'S" chance of any business owner who would impose ANY mandates, if not for these government sanctions. I believe that these business owners care more about the money than the vaccine status of the customer. This is NOT a point, it's just common sense.
Yes, but you know what they say about common sense.

If you believe that owners care more about the safety of their staff and customers, than they do about their profits, then I'm afraid that history does not support you.
Well I never said that. What I said was, some business owners might think that by requiring vaccination, they are making their business safer and without requiring vaccination they think they would loose customers. Or to put it another way, some business owners might think that by having a vaccine mandate in place for customers entering their business, they are likely to have better profits than if they did not have such a mandate.

There ARE businesses that REFUSE to ask their customers to show proof of vaccination. Many you can find easily on YouTube. They believe that their customer's vaccine status is none of their business. And, I agree with them.
I do too.

Why are you only fixated on these mandates?
I'm only "fixated" on my point which I have being making for many posts now,
and that is that government cannot be blamed for the vaccine mandates in every single workplace. You seem to be giving all businesses a free pass, implying that even the ones which are not required by government to have a vaccine mandate, can somehow still be blamed by government.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I don't think you know what arguing from ignorance actually is. See below for the definition and then think about the fact that I did not assert that any proposition is true.
First you said, "That proves nothing.". This asserts that my proposition is false. Then you stated that, "For all you know there are countless business owners who had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed!". This is an assertion that you do NOT know is true or false. Therefore, you are asserting that MY proposition is false based only on an assumption/belief that you have no idea is true or false. Sounds to me like the very definition of an Argument from Ignorance. But thanks for the reference!

So it's hypocritical that there is no vaccine mandate for Federal MP's because of the the federal vaccine mandate for aged care workers?
It is hypocritical for the reasons I said. Please don't add words that I haven't said(age-care workers).

What does this have to do with "inspiration?"
This question has been asked and answered already. Stop asking it again in a different way.

Why the hell would Qantas be threatened with fines or arrests if they were not required to adopt a national vaccine mandate for employees?
Again changing my words. I said vaccine mandates for it's "frontline employees". Not ALL of its employees. This policy was adopted AFTER the government had adopted its vaccine mandate for HEALTHCARE workers, and for the INTERNATIONAL flight industries(flight and cabin crew, and ground personnel).

Yes, but you know what they say about common sense.
Yes! USE IT!

I do too.
Good.

I'm only "fixated" on my point which I have being making for many posts now,
and that is that government cannot be blamed for the vaccine mandates in every single workplace. You seem to be giving all businesses a free pass, implying that even the ones which are not required by government to have a vaccine mandate, can somehow still be blamed by government.
Finally, you are making a personal statement. Instead of a barrage of useless and every-changing questions. All leading from one rabbit hole to another. It is refreshing just to hear a personal comment once and a while.

YES! Absolutely, irrevocably, and undeniably true. Without these government vaccine mandates forcing every man, woman, child, and pet to stick this poison into their arm, NO business would commit business suicide, by alienating a portion of its clientele. And, I seriously doubt that any business owner, should be privy to anything about their customer's medical history. Their duty of care, does NOT extend past the privacy of their customers. This is a dangerous precedence to set. What's next, discrimination based on marital status, criminal status, and tracking logs??

Why are you arguing about such an insignificant and mute point? Who cares, if just ONE workplace vaccine mandate was government inspired or not? ALL OF THESE MANDATES ARE WRONG!!! They all need to be abolished. The damage that these mandates are doing, far outweighs any of their possible benefits.
 

chris155au

Active member
First you said, "That proves nothing.". This asserts that my proposition is false.
No it does not.

Then you stated that, "For all you know there are countless business owners who had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed!". This is an assertion that you do NOT know is true or false.
Yes, we BOTH do not know if it is true or false. I'm saying that it could be either.
You on the other hand are saying that it's DEFINITELY the case that no business owner had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed. YOU'RE the one who appears to be arguing from ignorance. I on the other hand am leaving all options on the table.

Therefore, you are asserting that MY proposition is false based only on an assumption/belief that you have no idea is true or false.
Nope, I'm saying that it MIGHT be false. It might also be TRUE!

It is hypocritical for the reasons I said. Please don't add words that I haven't said(age-care workers).
You certainly do have an interesting take on Morrison. You earlier praised him for taking a stand against vaccine mandates, but I assume that you very much criticise him for the federal vaccine mandates.

Again changing my words. I said vaccine mandates for it's "frontline employees". Not ALL of its employees.
I didn't say that you said "ALL" employees. I referred to Qantas adopting a national vaccine mandate for employees.

This policy was adopted AFTER the government had adopted its vaccine mandate for HEALTHCARE workers, and for the INTERNATIONAL flight industries(flight and cabin crew, and ground personnel).
Yeah, I don't think you're right that the federal government introduced a vaccine mandate for the international flight industry. Can you cite a source? I found this which suggests that it doesn't exist:

"Qantas has also previously suggested that the federal government mandate vaccinations across all frontline aviation workers, due to their frequent interaction with others." www.australianaviation.com.au/2021/09/rex-to-race-qantas-and-virgin-in-staff-vaccine-mandate/

Yes, but you know what they say about common sense.
Yes! USE IT!
I do. Others don't. That's why it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some business owners think that by requiring vaccination, they are making their business safer and without requiring vaccination they think they would loose customers.

YES! Absolutely, irrevocably, and undeniably true. Without these government vaccine mandates forcing every man, woman, child, and pet to stick this poison into their arm, NO business would commit business suicide, by alienating a portion of its clientele.
Then why are businesses which do not HAVE to require vaccination for customers/staff, do so anyway? Are they not voluntarily committing "business suicide, by alienating a portion of its clientele?"
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
No it does not.



Yes, we BOTH do not know if it is true or false. I'm saying that it could be either.
You on the other hand are saying that it's DEFINITELY the case that no business owner had planned to adopt such mandates even before the vaccines were developed. YOU'RE the one who appears to be arguing from ignorance. I on the other hand am leaving all options on the table.



Nope, I'm saying that it MIGHT be false. It might also be TRUE!



You certainly do have an interesting take on Morrison. You earlier praised him for taking a stand against vaccine mandates, but I assume that you very much criticise him for the federal vaccine mandates.



I didn't say that you said "ALL" employees. I referred to Qantas adopting a national vaccine mandate for employees.



Yeah, I don't think you're right that the federal government introduced a vaccine mandate for the international flight industry. Can you cite a source? I found this which suggests that it doesn't exist:

"Qantas has also previously suggested that the federal government mandate vaccinations across all frontline aviation workers, due to their frequent interaction with others." www.australianaviation.com.au/2021/09/rex-to-race-qantas-and-virgin-in-staff-vaccine-mandate/





I do. Others don't. That's why it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some business owners think that by requiring vaccination, they are making their business safer and without requiring vaccination they think they would loose customers.



Then why are businesses which do not HAVE to require vaccination for customers/staff, do so anyway? Are they not voluntarily committing "business suicide, by alienating a portion of its clientele?"
Look, you are just going to continue playing semantic games, and asking 20 questions. Clearly you are still fixating on vaccine mandates in the workplace. And, I am tired and bored, constantly going off on this irrelevant tangents, that only creates more tangents(exercise in futility). Especially where you are providing zilch! So, let me make this perfectly clear.

All vaccine mandates should be abolished, PERIOD!
All jobs should not be held to ransom.
All our natural freedoms and liberties should not be held to ransom.
All government surveillance and tracking into our privacy should be abolished.

Vote all these fuckers out!
 

chris155au

Active member
Look, you are just going to continue playing semantic games, and asking 20 questions.
There was precisely TWO questions in my reply! You're using that as an excuse to not reply section by section, because you know that I'm right! It's not as if you're not capable of replying section by section, given that you've done it many times!

It's VERY simple! Government cannot be blamed for the vaccine mandates in every single workplace! Qantas and BHP are examples! Of course BHP (your own example) tried but failed after the GOVERNMENT STOPPED THEM! Stop blaming government for ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING!

All vaccine mandates should be abolished, PERIOD!
All jobs should not be held to ransom.
All our natural freedoms and liberties should not be held to ransom.
All government surveillance and tracking into our privacy should be abolished.
And all businesses which have adopted vaccine mandates but are not required to by government are responsible for adopting them, and they should be abolished!

Vote all these fuckers out!
I thought you liked Morrison.
 
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