If you've been raped in the USA God was an instigator or accomplice ... God's Plan for Rape Victims

Squire

Active member
The idiocy of the extremist evangelicals in the USA is amazing and irrational.

"Indiana's treasurer and Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said recently that pregnancy from rape is "something God intended".

I saw a TV show where a guy who had been shot was having a difficult recovery and he made the stupid religious-extremist statement that what happened to him was "God's plan". Total idiocy infests the Christian right in the USA.

https://www.patheos.com/atheist/gods-plan-roy-speckhardt-11-05-2012.html

God's Plan for Rape Victims
NOVEMBER 04, 2012 BY ROY SPECKHARDT

Women's rights have already played a big role in the 2012 elections, and rightly so. More than half of our nation's citizens are women, and it's about time that government officials give proper attention to the largest traditionally marginalized group. Unfortunately, not all the attention is positive, or even supportive. Shockingly, after all these years, essential human rights, like autonomy over one's own body, are actually up for debate this election season.

The latest attack on women's rights comes from the movement's longtime nemesis, the Religious Right. Christian conservatives have made numerous offensive statements regarding rape and the right of the victim to end an unwanted pregnancy. For example, Indiana's treasurer and Senate candidate Richard Mourdock said recently that pregnancy from rape is "something God intended" as if that's somehow an appropriate and sufficient reason for not exempting rape victims from a complete abortion ban.

Where do religious fundamentalists get the justification for such extreme ideas? They believe it because the Bible tells them so.

While millions of mainstream religious Americans reject the literal truth of the Bible (as if there's only one version anyway), there are also millions of biblical literalists who don't exactly have good foundational material when it comes to rape and what place women should hold in society. This is evidenced by Deuteronomy 22:28-29, "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives"; by Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (which describes a rape victim who doesn't call out during the assault and must be killed in the town center); by Colossians 3:18 "Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as it is fitting in the Lord"; and by 1 Timothy 2:12 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be silent."

What Mr. Mourdock and his fellow Christian conservatives fail to take into consideration is that they represent a relatively small segment of the population. Many religious Americans, such as Jews, Hindus, and progressive Christians, don't necessarily believe that God intended victims to be raped, and may not believe that God wants them to bring unwanted children into our overpopulated world. And if mainstream religious are being misrepresented by the far right, the values of nonreligious Americans, who now make up to 20 percent of the U.S. population, are being even more marginalized, as the Religious Right attempts to coerce all of us into participating in a divine plan that we don't even believe in.

Christian conservatives are either ignorant of the pluralistic society in which we live, or they are demonstrating their disrespect for others as they aim to make their way the only way. Of course, Americans come from a wide variety of backgrounds and maintain a range of religious belief, including no theistic beliefs at all. The laws being sought, including the banning of abortion with no exception for rape or incest, fail to take into account the very diversity that makes this nation so great. Laws apply to everyone equally, which is why they must be designed with the interests of all members of society. That's why a particular sectarian belief system isn't a good foundation for legislation.

Christians who believe that pregnancy resulting from rape is a gift from God are perfectly within their rights to think that, and the women who adhere to such beliefs are perfectly within their right to continue with their pregnancy. Most Americans would agree with this because they recognize that an individual's religious beliefs and personal autonomy over their own body are important freedoms that must be protected in a democracy. At the same time, most Americans would also agree that those who wish to end an unwanted pregnancy should be able to do so, and that the religious beliefs of others shouldn't stand in the way of such a decision.

As a country, we must remember that the toleration of a wide variety of political and religious beliefs is essential for maintaining national harmony, and we must remind our representatives in government of this need for toleration if they forget it.
 

Lols

Active member
The world is going backwards fast!
Going down the rungs of evolution a bit!
Soon we will all act like cave people again...
Things are getting sillier and sillier.
And if people use religion to get away with doing stupid shit....it used to be said that the devil made them do it... now it’s God that’s an instigator and accomplice!
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho
Staff member
Nothing to do with evolution, just frauds quoting scripture to gain power over people.
 

Squire

Active member
Nothing to do with evolution, just frauds quoting scripture to gain power over people.
It wouldn't happen without a gullible population who joyfully allow themselves to be drawn into the nonsense and insane group prayers.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
People will believe anything.. it's that now our media is advanced and so much more of it is visible.

We're not DE-volving... we never advanced in the first place. We are all still chimps in mufti. Might is right and politics requires supporters, so the hierarchy .. we are , as clan critters , always involved in politics....

but it is all about the brawn, not the BRAIN.

Religion is also essentially JUST POLITICS. BECAUSE we are naturally political animals ( on the whole) looking for advantage, having a God on your side must have seemed like anything was possible.

But we remain pathetic creatures with a species paradigm ..WE are at the top of the killing tree... we can do as we please.
 
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Squire

Active member
The saying of grace at home dinner mealtimes is a bogus act. US people don't do it in restaurants.

In fact they don't do it for breakfast or lunch which further demonstrates the saying of grace as bogus.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Grace.

Now that is an interesting idea. All the rites practiced by Christians, of whatever ilk, seem to me to reflect the fear of the peasant for his masters, be they priests or lords.
And of the power of the Earth.
They thought the priests would protect them through the power of the One God.
It is all superstition IMHO.

I mean seriously.. catholic rites require a real example of acceptable cannibalism.

It's called trans-substantiation, isn't it.?

The Host bread and the wine in the Mass are held to actually be the FLESH , and the Wine the BLOOD , of Christ. They become , through trans-substantiation the ACTUAL flesh and blood of Christ, at that time of communion. I don't think many Catholics understand the idea of trans-substantiation. .

So all the supplicants are , according to the Catholic Church, cannibalising the body of Christ, at the priests forbearance. .

But that is OK.. he has boundless flesh and blood to share.

Crikey.. sounds bloody crook to me.
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
Raised Catholic, the icon of Jesus nailed to a cross with a look of agony on his face and a crown of thorns always horrified me.

Way to keep little kiddies in line. And parents, when desperate could say to their unruly offspring "Jesus suffered and died so that you ..."

My mother used to tell me that every time i lied, a black mark got put on my soul. When i died and went before St. Peter at the gates of heaven, he would count my black marks. If i had too many, i was to be sent to hell. If i had any at all, i would have to serve a sentence in purgatory. There were pictures in my children's bible of purgatory. Scabby, emaciated arms reaching out through a grate towards clouds lit up by the rays of god.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
I'm really glad my Mum never took that view.
She didn't go to Church, though she said she believed in that God, she didn't believe a Church was needed.
She said I was free to choose how I managed the God Thing. I was given a King James Bible... now that was interesting.

C of E... Church of England , was what I used to put down, if asked, as a child.
I decided it was a big pile of Bollocks and I never attended anything other than the religious lesson at primary and Intermediary school.
I DID sing in the choir, and those Moari girls had the best voices .. amazing, and then I had to move to Australia at 13.
No pressure about religion.. I ignored it basically.
I never felt conflicted by messages because it was so obvious to me that it was a powerful fantasy.. I didn't talk about it, nor think about the various contending arguments because they all seemed like foolery, to me.

Still feel that. No religion has any credibility and anyone who pays tithes or donates to 'whatever'/..... are being ripped off. Anyone who accepts the view that Christ is the Redeemer are fools, whose own sins burden them to the extent that they feel they NEED help.. from Christ. They want forgiveness for their crimes, and pay for it.

All religions are lies made up by Men, to enrich themselves.. all petitioners or supplicants or believers, are to me , fools who pay for the right to feel that God is on their side.

The extremely devout are mentally ill......IMHO.
 

DreamRyderX

Active member
..


Abortion, Rape, and the Will of God

➣ ➣ Hopefully, you will dare to read the quoted response below in total.........

Source: CBC
October 24, 2012
By Chris Trousdale


This week <in October 2012> U.S. Senate candidate Richard Mourdock is being thrashed by the media and abandoned by fellow Republicans for saying that pregnancies resulting from rape are “something that God intended to happen.” Mourdock, of course, is not saying anything that should be controversial for conservative, evangelical Christians (or Roman Catholics, for that matter). He’s not claiming that rape is God’s will, but instead that every child, regardless of the circumstances of his or her conception, exists because God brought him or her into existence. Of course, his political opponents are attempting to spin Mourdock’s comments and claim that he believes that rape is something that God wills.

It is inconceivable that a politician in today’s world would make such a statement! Nevertheless, there will be those who argue that Mourdock said just such a thing and it will cost him at the polls. Rather than focus on the sad state of political discourse in our country, however, I’d like to challenge us to approach this whole issue from a biblical worldview and form our opinions about such issues as abortion and the will of God from Scripture rather than perceived political expediency or emotionally-driven preferences.

First, let me briefly (that’s an understatement!) address the issue of God’s will. The Bible speaks of God’s will in more than one way. We are right to think of any evil or sinful act, such as rape, as wrong and contrary to the will of God – if we are thinking of his prescriptive will, or his will of command. When we say, for instance, that God’s will is for us to abstain from sexual immorality (1 Thessalonians 4:3) we are referring to God’s revealed will of command. All the commands of God, whether positive or negative, fall into this category. However, Scripture also speaks of God’s will in another sense. God has a sovereign plan for all of history and for every single human being. The details of this plan are not revealed, and therefore some prefer to call this God’s secret will. I prefer to speak of his sovereign will, since at times God does reveal the details of his plan and he has made known to us in broad strokes what his plan for history is.

Over and over we see in the Bible that God’s sovereign will often includes the sinful actions of human beings. For instance, Joseph says that, while his brothers actions were wicked and they intended to accomplish evil by selling him into slavery, “God meant it for good,” (Genesis 50:20). The “it” is the evil act of selling their brother into slavery. Joseph’s brothers are sinners and are guilty before God, but their sinful actions were planned by God and served his purposes in rescuing his people from famine and temporarily removing them from the Promised Land. So certain is Joseph of God’s hand in these evil acts that he can proclaim to his brothers, “God sent me before you to preserve for you a remnant on earth…” and that, “it was not you who sent me here, but God,” (Genesis 45:7,8). Certainly, their actions violated God’s will of command. Yet, mysteriously, those actions remain a part of his sovereign will.

This is a mystery that we cannot fully comprehend, but one that we must accept. It lies at the heart of the Christian faith, for we see these two wills of God at work in the death of God’s Son. In Acts 4 the Apostle Peter prays to the “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,” and proclaims, “truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place,” (Acts 4:23, 27-28). Notice that Peter is not painting with broad strokes, as if God’s plan was to sacrifice his Son, while leaving the details of who might carry that plan out up for grabs. Herod, Pilate, the Roman soldiers, and the Jewish religious leaders are specifically included. Their actions led to the murder of an innocent man. They killed the Son of God! And yet, all of the sins of these men that led to Christ’s death were a part of the sovereign plan of God.

Now, to return to the issue of rape, pregnancy, and abortion, we must admit that we cannot simply say that rape is not a part of God’s will without qualification. We can say that rape is evil. We can say that rape is a violation of God’s commands. We can say, in that sense, that rape is not God’s will. But we cannot say that the rapist (or any other criminal) has thwarted God’s sovereign plan by his actions. What’s more, if we embrace a biblical view of God’s sovereignty, we will be able to more clearly see how God can intend good to come from another’s evil actions. Pregnancies resulting from rape are not an accident, nor are they unplanned by God. Every human being exists because God wills him or her to exist, regardless of how young he or she is or how he or she was conceived.

In the end, abortion is not a complicated political issue. Either babies are babies, regardless of age or ability, or they are not. Whether a pregnancy is the result of a married couples’ relationship, a sexual relationship outside of wedlock, or of something as horrible as rape, a baby is still a baby. Humans are humans, regardless of which developmental stage they happen to be in at the time. To say otherwise is to ignore science, common sense, and most importantly, Scripture. People are not accidents. Babies are not mistakes, even if our sins, or the evils done by others lead to their conception.

There is great hope in knowing these things! No longer do the victims of rape have to live with the belief that their child is a mistake or a tragedy. No, in God’s sovereign goodness he uses our greatest pains and most terrifying experiences to bring life and joy into the world. Evil is still evil, but life is still life, and children are still a blessing from the Lord.
The above was a response to a news story published back in 2012 ......it seems the OP didn't have the courtesy to inform you of that..........a recent event, it certainly is not......... Hopefully, if you dare to read the quoted response above, hopefully it will clarify things a bit.

If not, unfortunately for you, you can go about your merry atheistic ways, & carry on like children festering with frothing anger because some may have differing opinions about spirituality than you, which seems conceptually, to not be tolerated in the ever expanding atheistic sector of the world, rife with vitriol & hate.
Regardless........



..
 
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Squire

Active member
..


Abortion, Rape, and the Will of God

➣ ➣ Hopefully, you will dare to read the quoted response below in total.........

Source: CBC

The above was a response to a news story published back in 2012 ......it seems the OP didn't have the courtesy to inform you of that..........a recent event, it certainly is not......... Hopefully, if you dare to read the quoted response above, hopefully it will clarify things a bit.

If not, unfortunately for you, you can go about your merry atheistic ways, & carry on like children festering with frothing anger because some may have differing opinions about spirituality than you, which seems conceptually, to not be tolerated in the ever expanding atheistic sector of the world, rife with vitriol & hate.
Regardless........



..
Is NightmareRiderxxx going out to commit Trumpery and acts of violence against Asians while preaching about the right to life?
 
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