COVID vacc

pinkeye

Wonder woman
Why should he be forced to wear a mask, against a disease that he no longer has? Not only does he NOT have the disease, but he is IMMUNE to the disease if he is reinfected........................................................................................................................

You do realize that you can be infected by breathing air in through the sides of masks, or by the virus entering the body through the eyes, right?

So here's a novel idea. Why don't people in the high risk of dying groups wear a mask.
............................................................................................................................................
Given these objective facts, maybe the ignorance and attitude is well justified!!
Now you are just being silly. These remarks?
You know very well a mask is to protect others, not the wearer.
 

greggerypeccary

Active member
Why should he be forced to wear a mask, against a disease that he no longer has? Not only does he NOT have the disease, but he is IMMUNE to the disease if he is reinfected. Exactly how could he spread a virus that he no longer has?

You do realize that you can be infected by breathing air in through the sides of masks, or by the virus entering the body through the eyes, right?

So here's a novel idea. Why don't people in the high risk of dying groups wear a mask. And let the 99.9997% of uninfected Australian(201 people still infected/26M people in the population), choose to wear a mask voluntarily? There is 7.4M active cases in America, with 98.2% of those expected to make a full recovery(1.8 mortality rate). Therefore, only 132,915 Americans will still have this disease(0.04% of the population). Or, 99.06% of the US population who are uninfected.

Given these objective facts, maybe the ignorance and attitude is well justified!!
More ignorance.

No wonder the virus is out of control.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Now you are just being silly. These remarks?
You know very well a mask is to protect others, not the wearer.
Exactly how are my remarks, "..just being silly."?

I was under the belief that people are wearing masks for BOTH reasons. If you are symptomatic with the disease and wear a mask, most of the expectorate will exit through the sides of the masks(sneezing and coughing). And, will be suspended in the air, or settle on different surfaces.

If you are not infected with the disease and wear a mask, you can still be infected by breathing in the virus through the sides of the mask, or even through the eyes.

Therefore, it is irrelevant WHY a person wears a mask. Wearing masks are relatively useless in preventing anyone from becoming infected. But it can't hurt you. I would recommend that anyone in the high risk groups to wear a mask.

I seriously believe, that if the government suggested to people as a cure for Covid-19, that they should stick their longest finger up their ass, hold it there for ten minute, and then stick it in their mouth to induce vomiting, that many will do it without question. IMHO
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
More ignorance.

No wonder the virus is out of control.
Out of control? Prove it!! I would rather be uninformed and ignorant, than misinformed and compliant.

The very first question I asked was, "If the media had not saturated the airways with viral fear-mongering, and disinformation, what event in your life would have alerted you to this pandemic"?

For example, you wouldn't need the media to alert you to a hurricane, or a bushfire, right? I mean did you notice a large number of workmates absent from work with the flu? How about a large number of relatives and friends getting sick and dying? In fact, without the media's viral propaganda and omissions, it would be just another day at work and at home, right? Or just business as usual for business owners.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
your point eludes me.

My point has always been about choice and effectiveness, regarding the wearing of masks. You said that people wear masks to protect others from the disease. And, not to protect themselves from the disease. My point was that either reason is irrelevant. This is about the weaknesses/flaws of the mask itself. Not about why people wear them.

Again, it begs the question, that if you are uninfected, immune, or vaccinated, then WHY would people need to be protected from you?
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
It isn't about how effective masks are ... certainly not the typical types used by the populace,... it's about the perception. Do people KNOW you are safe.? No they don't.

.... INFECTED people should mask up.. except.. they're not likely to know they are infected.. and no=one else KNOWS who is infected, SO best every one wears a mask.

Most people don't analyse it to the degree you do, and they are just happy to 'do the right thing'. (whether or not that idea is valid or not).

Refusing to wear a mask when it is a perceived community benefit is to tell every one you interact with :U :U yeah fuck you all I KNOW BETTER,..... is what you relay by that behaviour.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
It isn't about how effective masks are ... certainly not the typical types used by the populace,... it's about the perception. Do people KNOW you are safe.? No they don't.

.... INFECTED people should mask up.. except.. they're not likely to know they are infected.. and no=one else KNOWS who is infected, SO best every one wears a mask.

Most people don't analyse it to the degree you do, and they are just happy to 'do the right thing'. (whether or not that idea is valid or not).

Refusing to wear a mask when it is a perceived community benefit is to tell every one you interact with :U :U yeah fuck you all I KNOW BETTER,..... is what you relay by that behaviour.

So what you are saying is, that it doesn't matter if you have been vaccinated against any pathogen, recovered from any pathogen, have developed antibodies against any pathogen, or even have been tested negative for any pathogen. You should still wear a mask, BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY PERCEIVED IT AS A BENEFIT. I simply disagree. The truth is not based on any consensus of belief. It is based only on the facts.

It will always be those who actually question the obvious, that will bring about change. I certainly don't know what is better. But I certainly know what is true.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
is he? I'll admit not very knowledgable about things medical, but people with antibodies can still get and share a virus they have antibodies to can they not?
John, I am not saying that it is impossible, for people who are immune to Covid-19(disease), to be reinfected again with the same virus, or that they can't spread the VIRUS asymptomatically. I am saying that it is highly and physically unlikely that they can.

It is a rational fact, that symptomatic people can spread the virus much easier, than asymptomatic people. Why is this? Because, the body is NOT doing anything to expel and neutralize the pathogen as an immune response. And, the pathogen does not want to leave the host. The body is responding to the pathogen at a localized level, using the antibodies in the blood to attack the body(surgically if you will). A full-on immune response is like someone squeezing a full sponge into the blood. Or using dynamite to catch fish.

What I am saying is, that nothing can stop a coronavirus from entering your body and starting to replicate itself. It doesn't matter if you are immune, have antibodies, are vaccinated, or even wear a mask. Having viral antibodies WILL protect you from having the disease(Covid-19}, or from becoming symptomatic. There is a big difference in being infected, and developing the disease. Having viral antibodies is not an invisible cone of protection against the virus.

If you have the antibodies in your system(blood), it will attack the pathogens before the damage they do, can prompt a full immune response. This means you will have no symptoms, thus it is very unlikely that you will spread the pathogen. But nothing is impossible or absolute.

Ask your doctor to do a blood test to check for specific antibodies you have acquired over the years. You might be amazed at all the viral diseases you've had and recovered from, and didn't even know.
 

Texan

Active member
is he? I'll admit not very knowledgable about things medical, but people with antibodies can still get and share a virus they have antibodies to can they not?
It's not impossible, but it's very very unlikely as long as they still have the antibodies. I still have antibodies from vaccinations from 30 years ago, but diseases are all different. I had to get tested for various antibodies as part of a screening to work as a contractor in a Children's Hospital last month.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
So what you are saying is, that it doesn't matter if you have been vaccinated against any pathogen, recovered from any pathogen, have developed antibodies against any pathogen, or even have been tested negative for any pathogen. You should still wear a mask, BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY PERCEIVED IT AS A BENEFIT. I simply disagree. The truth is not based on any consensus of belief. It is based only on the facts.

It will always be those who actually question the obvious, that will bring about change. I certainly don't know what is better. But I certainly know what is true.
Yes that IS what I am saying.

I am not talking about truth here, or even facts.

My point is that humans need to see community efforts, to confront WHATEVER we face. The biggest bushfires, the worst drought in living history...2020 gave us a lot to digest...

I understand YOUR point, but it ignores human need for a sense of cohesion.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Yes that IS what I am saying.

I am not talking about truth here, or even facts.

My point is that humans need to see community efforts, to confront WHATEVER we face. The biggest bushfires, the worst drought in living history...2020 gave us a lot to digest...

I understand YOUR point, but it ignores human need for a sense of cohesion.
Have you any idea of how many of the worst evils to ever plague manhind, were the product of "community perception"? The events you mentioned are real, and a community's response would be essential, limited, necessary, and obvious. But none of these events require shutting down ALL of Australia, right? We didn't close down businesses, end jobs, destroy industries, force 99% of uninfected Australians 2 meters apart, and suspend the freedoms of ALL Australians, during the floods, bushfires, droughts, or cyclones, right? Worse, even those who are vaccinated, recovered, tested negative, or are immune to this pathogen, must still follow all quarantine rules. What is the logic there?

If you want the community to come together in fighting this disease, then let's provide the essential resources to all those fighting this disease on the front lines. But is the community coming together voluntarily? Is this need for cohesion or kumbaya, really a part of the human condition? I think not! The government simply tells you to wear a mask or you will be fined and arrested. So, you wear a mask. The government simply tells you to distance yourself from others, or you will be fined or arrested. So, you distance yourself from others. The government simply tells business owners how many people they can have in their businesses, or they will be fined or arrested. So, they limit how many people they can have in their business. So, how is this an example of the human need for cohesion? Or, the community coming together?

The only difference with this new strain of flu virus, is that it can circumvent the bodies natural defenses. It can withstand the body's high core temperature, and continue to replicate itself. That's it. Otherwise, IT IS SIMPLY THE FLU!

Are you saying that the actions of every member of the community, should be controlled by whatever the community perceives as true? And, not what is supported with facts and truths? Then I disagree with you. The perception of a community can easily be manipulated to believe in just about anything. Many communities believe in the worshipping of God. Does this mean that ALL members of the community should believe in the worshipping of God? Ror community cohesion?
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
The thing is, natural disasters are uncontrollable by us at the time they impinge upon us, and we run before them. They are visible external threats.
One reason perhaps why people want a God to save them..?
They are visible external threats.

The Virus is different in that it is invisible and internal.
But STILL every community is potentially at risk.

Thing is..? despite your certainty , people do NOT know enough. Our government has been negligent in it's information.. confused, unclear, divisive and just plain ignorant.

So you say...


We didn't close down businesses, end jobs, destroy industries, force 99% of uninfected Australians 2 meters apart, and suspend the freedoms of ALL Australians, during the floods, bushfires, droughts, or cyclones, right? Worse, even those who are vaccinated, recovered, tested negative, or are immune to this pathogen, must still follow all quarantine rules. What is the logic there?


It is about the potential. A fire, a cyclone or even a drought doesn't affect everyone. It is localised.
In contrast, potentially, the virus could reach into every home.

even those who are vaccinated, recovered, tested negative, or are immune to this pathogen, must still follow all quarantine rules. What is the logic there?

It is called ...one size fits all.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
he thing is, natural disasters are uncontrollable by us at the time they impinge upon us, and we run before them. They are visible external threats.
One reason perhaps why people want a God to save them..?
They are visible external threats.
True. These natural disasters are external, visible, and uncontrollable. Hence why they are natural disasters. People pray to God for many reasons, not only when there is a natural disaster.

The Virus is different in that it is invisible and internal.
But STILL every community is potentially at risk.
It is different in size only. It is external and uncontrollable. viruses and humans are all part of the Ecosystem. Both biotic and abiotics life is linked together in the same struggle for survival and competition. Viruses originate externally, not internally. Viruses need a host to be alive, and our immune system need a pathogen to learn and script.

Thing is..? despite your certainty , people do NOT know enough. Our government has been negligent in it's information.. confused, unclear, divisive and just plain ignorant.

So you say...
The government tells people what they want to hear, to keep themselves and their media outlets, in the spotlight. They know that most people are not going to question what they tell them, or do their own research. The government talks only about the total number of those infected, and ignores the true number of those infected(minus recoveries and deaths). They mentions the total weekly, or daily number of those infected, and ignores adding any context with their stats. They try to make irrelevant comparisons and self-serving assumptions, by using the the global stats, and the stats from other countries, without supplying any related causal links. They are quick to mention the millions of testings being done, but not so much about the over 95+% negative results? They may mention the mortality rate, but NOT the 97+% survival rate.

When I mention these things that they continuing to do, you are quick to imply that I am lying. The alternative is to believe that the government is misleading you. Therefore, I must be the one that is wrong. Even though anyone can look at the same facts as me. None of this is rocket science. And, I'm no rocket scientist. So, if there is something that I have said that is clearly wrong, please point it out.

It is called ...one size fits all.
Then we should force parents to force their babies, newborns, and small children to also wear masks. In fact, anyone breathing air must wear a mask. Soon, we will start looking like Japan.

It is about the potential. A fire, a cyclone or even a drought doesn't affect everyone. It is localised.
In contrast, potentially, the virus could reach into every home.
The potential for someone being infected by a coronavirus, will exist forever. There will always be someone, somewhere, being infected by some virus. Since the potential will always exist, should everyone wear masks indefinitely? Should businesses stay closed indefinitely? Should people keep their distances indefinitely? Etc.?

Covid-19 doesn't affect 99% of the Australian population. Yet, the government's restrictions affect 100% of the population. So, the analogy is weak at best.
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
True. These natural disasters are external, visible, and uncontrollable. Hence why they are natural disasters. People pray to God for many reasons, not only when there is a natural disaster.
/./././././././././..////

When I mention these things that they continuing to do, you are quick to imply that I am lying. The alternative is to believe that the government is misleading you. Therefore, I must be the one that is wrong. Even though anyone can look at the same facts as me. None of this is rocket science. And, I'm no rocket scientist. So, if there is something that I have said that is clearly wrong, please point it out.

(see above)

,,,,,.,,
I don't think you are lying, and don't know why you would say that.

The government is ....... I just want to vote them OUT.

You do know , don't you? that people are able to draw their own conclusions from the info available. NO?
we are all sheep?

It isn't .. you are either for me or against me.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I don't think you are lying, and don't know why you would say that.
Really? Do I really need to quote all your responses, ignoring, dismissing, or questioning the data/interpretations I deposited(#7, #26, #40)? Do I really need to go back to all the other Covid threads, and point out your opposition?

The government is ....... I just want to vote them OUT.
Any government that would sacrifice the rights and freedoms of 99.9% of its population, because of 0.1% of its population, infected by a disease with a 98+% recovery rate, is just immature, ignorant, and irresponsible. I certainly will be voting them out, because of this insanity, and the spreading of disinformation.

You do know , don't you? that people are able to draw their own conclusions from the info available. NO?
we are all sheep?
That is true in theory, but not in reality. In reality MOST people are manipulated to draw conclusions, based only on the facts that are disseminated by the media. MOST people have learned from an early age, to trust and believe anything that they see and hear over the "boob tube". If the government tells them that they were being invaded by aliens, they would conclude that they were being invaded(War of the Worlds broadcast).

MOST people are also lazy and gullible. They are not going to ask the obvious questions, or read between the lines. For example, People understand that there are millions of Australians being tested, but ignore that 99% of those tested are negative for Covid-19. They don't care why this is significant. They don't care that it would take centuries to infect everyone in Australia. Even if we did nothing. They don't care, that the more people infected and recover, the less people there will be to infect. All of these facts are ignored because of government fear mongering. So, no, most people do not draw their OWN conclusions.

I agree, that in some respects, that we are all sheep. But, when the police can arrest a mother in her own home, for posting on facebook, asking others to join her in protesting this lockdown, doesn't raise a few eyebrows, then nothing will. I'm just not that kind of sheep.

It isn't .. you are either for me or against me.
Not sure what this means. But this is NOT about me or you. It is about all of US!
 

pinkeye

Wonder woman
I mean , and sorry for the shorthand above, this should NOT be a contest between views. It is NOT 'either' 'or '.. which is a view often expressed by belligerent people....

It should be a matter of the greatest good , for the greatest number. I am not referring to anything but the prevalence of dispute and discord, and the need to work together instead..
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Will anyone here be a part of the Freedom Rallies throughout Australia, on the 15th of May(12PM)? I certainly will be there at the Botanical Garden in Brisbane. Protesting against the loss of my freedoms, because of an illness that is 99.8% NON-Fatal. And, has only infected less than 0.001% of the entire population. Just to let the Government know that we are not ALL sheep! And, that they can kiss their asses good-bye in the next election. Hope to see some of you there, who are not just talk, and no action.

 
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