Covid-19 Revisit

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
The ways the government can track us are almost too numerous to list. Phones are just one of the ways. The conspiracy theory that "they" created a pandemic to track us is silly in my opinion.
Please Seth, stop putting words in my mouth. This is your conclusion not mine. The Government doesn't need this virus to track anyone by their mobile. I have never implied that, and never would. As I have repeatedly said, I don't give a shit what the motive of the government is. And, don't bloody care. I only care about, BEING FORCED TO WEAR MASKS, FORCED TO BE QUARANTINED, FORCED TO SWIPE QR CODES,FORCED TO SIGN ANYTHING TO SHOP, AND FORCED TO KEEP 2 METERS APART! I also don't like being inundated with VACCINE HYPE. In short, ALL OF THIS SHIT SHOULD BE VOLUNTARY, NOT FORCED UNDER THE THREAT OF FINES OR IMPRISONMENT.

If people wish to do any of these things, that is their business. It is NOT my choice as an adult to do stupid and nonsensical things, just because everybody else is doing it. This I resent, and will do everything I can to stop it. Since there are only 39 active cases in Queensland, I doubt if any of them are a threat to me. Especially, since they are in quarantine or in hospitals.

What I am talking about is real, NOT a conspiracy. So stop characterizing my comments as a conspiracy theory. Are you really that desperate?

Shell, I realize that masks and social distancing do not 100% prevent the disease from spreading. I do think the evidence is that they prevent it to some lesser percentage. I don't know what that percentage is, but I do think they have some effect.
The only thing that is a 100% guarantee is death. The percentage effectiveness is small, Seth. Clearly you don't care about breathing in air through the sides of the mask. You don't care about the infection spreading through the eyes. And, clearly you don't care about the basic physics of a virus(size). I can only provide these basic truisms, which are all objective and easily verifiable. How you want to rationalize this to avoid the information conflicting with your own belief narrative, is your own business.

So let me be clear here. NOTHING WILL, OR CAN, PROTECT YOU FROM BEING INFECTED BY THE SARS-COV-2 VIRUS. NOTHING!!!

I disagree with you that the jobs and businesses will not come back. The law of supply and demand will see to that. People in my area are enjoying doing the things they couldn't do for over a year. The airline business, as just one example, is booming. Where there is a demand, businesses will spring up to meet that demand, and that, of course, means increased employment.
You are talking about industries Seth, not small businesses. We can't have no airlines, no agriculture, no mining, no petroleum, no hospitality, and no tourist industries. Industries will come back in time, but thousands of small businesses have closed their doors for good. And, even if they could come back, what would be the point? They would eventually have to close again, the next time someone test positive to the next manufactured apocalyptic viral threat. But you are entitled to your opinion. Looking at the figures, I definitely disagree with you.

I really don't know enough about China to comment. But you are right, it really is off the topic.
 
Last edited:

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
Please Seth, stop putting words in my mouth. This is your conclusion not mine. The Government doesn't need this virus to track anyone by their mobile. I have never implied that, and never would.
Perhaps I misunderstood you when you said,

"You don't have to download locator apps(tracking devices), take whatever vaccines they tell you, whenever they tell you, or forced to carry a Covid-19-free passports with a locator chip, whenever you want to go abroad. It is your indifference, compliancy, and ignorance, that has enabled the government to do this in the first place. You are just being duped by all the fear-mongering and disinformation, that is constantly in your face. This low mortality virus, has given the government the excuse it needed, to track every citizen it wants. How important do you think this information could be? Can you think of ways it could easily be abused?"

I only meant to point out that our governments didn't need a pandemic to track us. I simply don't buy that conspiracy theory.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Perhaps I misunderstood you when you said,

"You don't have to download locator apps(tracking devices), take whatever vaccines they tell you, whenever they tell you, or forced to carry a Covid-19-free passports with a locator chip, whenever you want to go abroad. It is your indifference, compliancy, and ignorance, that has enabled the government to do this in the first place. You are just being duped by all the fear-mongering and disinformation, that is constantly in your face. This low mortality virus, has given the government the excuse it needed, to track every citizen it wants. How important do you think this information could be? Can you think of ways it could easily be abused?"

I only meant to point out that our governments didn't need a pandemic to track us. I simply don't buy that conspiracy theory.
No one is claiming that the government DID need a pandemic, except you and your straw man. And no one is selling a conspiracy theory, except the one you are trying to force down my throat.

Since everything that I have said is true, it CAN'T be a conspiracy theory. No matter how many times you try to force-fit my words out of context, to sound like a conspiracy theory. Since NONE of these activities/policies were in place BEFORE this pandemic, and ARE in place now, the only connection I can draw, is that it is because of this pandemic. This conclusion is fact based, NOT belief-based(as you are trying to imply). What do YOU think the reason for these actions are for? If NOT because of this pandemic, then what? Do you think the lockdowns were exclusive, or just coincidental of this virus?

So YES, tracking downloads, distancing, swiping mobile QR codes, signing in personal details, over-hyped vaccines, building quarantine centers, and now Covid-19-free passports, are occuring NOW in real time Seth. The information that the Government receives is real and actionable. Therefore, security and storage of this information, should rightly be a legitimate concern to us all, Right?

But, by all means, take a few sentences out of context, and mischaracterize them to mean anything you want. I don't care. Did you quote the multiple times I've said I don't give a shit about the motives of the government. Or, that this is NOT a conspiracy theory. OF COURSE NOT!! You're better than this Seth!
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
‘I’m sorry, but it’s too late’: Alabama doctor on treating unvaccinated, dying COVID patients

So, what the article is saying, is that almost everyone who has died from Covid-19, have been those who were NOT vaccinated, right? So, if I don't want to die from Covid-19, I better rush out and get a jab, right? Otherwise, it is my own fault if I'm infected and die. I also like the part where the doctors are telling those who have lost their loved ones, that they can honor them by getting a jab. Wow! Or this blatant appeal to pathos,

“It’s really hard because all of us physicians and other medical staff, we’ve been doing this for a long time and all of us are very, at this point, tired and emotionally drained and cynical,” she said.".

Clearly this newspaper supports the Government's idea, that the whole country should infect themselves with a Chinese lab developed genetically modified and sequenced mRNA. And, again take a non-lethal dose of 3 flu and cold inert pathogens. All designed to prompt an immune response artificially. In theory.

Getting a jab doesn't mean that you are protected from any viral pathogen. It only means that your immune system would respond earlier if you were infected. That's it. You can still be infected by this pathogen. And, you can still die from the complications of this pathogen. Vaccinated or not. Since April 1st, 20 fully immunized people(partly, or naturally immunized, are not mentioned) in Alabama have also died from this disease.

In January Alabama hospitals were receiving an average of 3000 covid-19. they are receiving an average of 200 patients now(6.7%). This means hospitals in Alabama are now seeing over 90% less Covid-19 patients, then at the beginning of the year. Kinda important, I think.

This is a virus(like the flu). People don't die directly from any virus. People die directly from their own immune response(or lack thereof) to the virus. They die from the infections caused by their own body's immune response. If your immune response is compromised, weakend, or affected by age, then you won't survive even a cold virus. Your organs will shut down because of cell oxygen debt, and other biochemical changes in your body. Did the people who died have other concurrent medical conditions? What were their ages? Did they die FROM or WITH this disease? Are you saying(or implying) that these people died from Covid-19 complications, because they were NOT vaccinated?

Maybe you can help me with this bit of logic? People wear masks to protect themselves from being infected by other, or to not infect others, right? And, those who choose not to wear masks are aware that they could be infected, or just want to develop their immunity naturally, if they are infected. So, what's the problem? Both groups are aware of the risks. So why can't those who feel protected by masks, leave those choose not to, alone. Why the forced compliance?
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
So, what the article is saying, is that almost everyone who has died from Covid-19, have been those who were NOT vaccinated, right? So, if I don't want to die from Covid-19, I better rush out and get a jab, right? Otherwise, it is my own fault if I'm infected and die. I also like the part where the doctors are telling those who have lost their loved ones, that they can honor them by getting a jab. Wow! Or this blatant appeal to pathos,

“It’s really hard because all of us physicians and other medical staff, we’ve been doing this for a long time and all of us are very, at this point, tired and emotionally drained and cynical,” she said.".

Clearly this newspaper supports the Government's idea, that the whole country should infect themselves with a Chinese lab developed genetically modified and sequenced mRNA. And, again take a non-lethal dose of 3 flu and cold inert pathogens. All designed to prompt an immune response artificially. In theory.

Getting a jab doesn't mean that you are protected from any viral pathogen. It only means that your immune system would respond earlier if you were infected. That's it. You can still be infected by this pathogen. And, you can still die from the complications of this pathogen. Vaccinated or not. Since April 1st, 20 fully immunized people(partly, or naturally immunized, are not mentioned) in Alabama have also died from this disease.

In January Alabama hospitals were receiving an average of 3000 covid-19. they are receiving an average of 200 patients now(6.7%). This means hospitals in Alabama are now seeing over 90% less Covid-19 patients, then at the beginning of the year. Kinda important, I think.

This is a virus(like the flu). People don't die directly from any virus. People die directly from their own immune response(or lack thereof) to the virus. They die from the infections caused by their own body's immune response. If your immune response is compromised, weakend, or affected by age, then you won't survive even a cold virus. Your organs will shut down because of cell oxygen debt, and other biochemical changes in your body. Did the people who died have other concurrent medical conditions? What were their ages? Did they die FROM or WITH this disease? Are you saying(or implying) that these people died from Covid-19 complications, because they were NOT vaccinated?

Maybe you can help me with this bit of logic? People wear masks to protect themselves from being infected by other, or to not infect others, right? And, those who choose not to wear masks are aware that they could be infected, or just want to develop their immunity naturally, if they are infected. So, what's the problem? Both groups are aware of the risks. So why can't those who feel protected by masks, leave those choose not to, alone. Why the forced compliance?
Shell, when 99% of the people being hospitalized or dying are not vaccinated, the implication is obvious.

Frankly, since the vaccines are readily available to everyone now (except children under 12), I think it's time to completely open up, drop masking requirements and restrictions on assemblages and businesses. If you don't want to vaccinate, okay. Some people who chose not to get vaccinated will get very sick, and some will die, the vast majority of whom would have been less sick or would not have died if they had vaccinated. But taking that risk is a choice. I don't think it's the best choice, but I'm not opposed to letting people make it.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
Shell, when 99% of the people being hospitalized or dying are not vaccinated, the implication is obvious.
Only according to your straw man. What percentage of the people admitted to hospital have actually died, and what percent have actually survived covid-19? Since 20 people(out of 529 Covid-19 related deaths) who were fully vaccinated have also died, clearly any direct link between being vaccinations and dying is not that obvious. Is it? Being vaccinated only gives the immune system a heads-up to a specific pathogen, when it enters the body. If a person is already in bad shape, being vaccinated won't matter. Hence why many people are advised not get vaccinated, because of their already compromised immune system.

Simply saying that 99%(94% according to your article) of the people being hospitalized or dying from covid-19, were NOT vaccinated is confusing, non-specific, and is not so obvious. It tries to imply that if you don't get vaccinated, that you will die of Covid-19. According to the article's stats, you have a greater chance of surviving covid-19 without being vaccinated(99.3%), than if you are vaccinated(less than 94%). Maybe you can tell me how many people who were natural immunized, had died from being reinfected? Also left out. But since so much is left out, it is hard to wade through all the half-truths, and fear-mongering to get to the facts.

Frankly, since the vaccines are readily available to everyone now (except children under 12), I think it's time to completely open up, drop masking requirements and restrictions on assemblages and businesses. If you don't want to vaccinate, okay. Some people who chose not to get vaccinated will get very sick, and some will die, the vast majority of whom would have been less sick or would not have died if they had vaccinated. But taking that risk is a choice. I don't think it's the best choice, but I'm not opposed to letting people make it.
Seth, the virus has been slowly reducing in the numbers of infections, even before the vaccines became available. This is because, as more and more people become infected, and more and more people recover, this leaves fewer and fewer people that the virus can successfully infect. This is how nature works naturally. So, supposition is useless without facts.

Before vaccines were available, 80% of people who recovered from being infected, reported mild to no symptoms at all. You just left that part out. But you are right, some people will die, and have died. And, over 80% of those were over 70 years old. Or, were already fighting other ongoing illnesses, or had an already compromised immune system. Another point ignored.

Just as I believe that people are just acting like sheep, I will defend their right to act like sheep. If people choose to wear masks, keep apart, not to congregate, download locator apps, swipe mobile QR code, take vaccines, or now accept travel ID cards, then that is their right. But I would hope that they would respect, and defend my right NOT to radically change my lifestyle. Just because of the 25 active cases already in quarantine, somewhere here in Queensland. This is madness, from any perspective.

If not for the 20,000 like-minded people who marched with me today in Queensland, I might think that ALL Australians are mindless easily led sheep. Through their outrage, clarity was definitely achieved. Now that the government has tasted power, it won't give it up easily. Of course channel 9 only picked out the one guy in 20,000, who started the chant, "take off your masks!". I'm sure that there will be those who will be quick to judge all marchers, as being violent and inciteful because of him.

If anyone wants the unfiltered video I took, let me know. Stay away from the government's news version of events. "My body, My choice!!". "Without choice, there is NO freedom.". At least 20,000 people will vote these overpaid idiotic children out.
 
Last edited:

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
If not for the 20,000 like-minded people who marched with me today in Queensland, I might think that ALL Australians are mindless easily led sheep. Through their outrage, clarity was definitely achieved. Now that the government has tasted power, it won't give it up easily. Of course channel 9 only picked out the one guy in 20,000, who started the chant, "take off your masks!". I'm sure that there will be those who will be quick to judge all marchers, as being violent and inciteful because of him.

If anyone wants the unfiltered video I took, let me know. Stay away from the government's news version of events. "My body, My choice!!". "Without choice, there is NO freedom.". At least 20,000 people will vote these overpaid idiotic children out.
I googled and read some reports. This stood out to me ...

"After protesters were dispersed, the New South Wales police minister, David Elliott, announced the formation of a strike force to identify each of the 3,500 protesters at the “super spreader” event."


That runs against my American grain.

I feel like Australia has been slow to get vaccinations out to people, but the good news is that it is happening. This link shows the progress ...


Your provinces are mostly in the mid-high 30s as far as the percentage of vaccinated people with NT at 45%.

I think a better use of time and resources than trying to track down protesters would be to get the vaccines out to the public ASAP. You would soon reach a point where everyone who wants it can get it.

And then it's time to open up and go back to pre-Covid life.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I googled and read some reports. This stood out to me ...

"After protesters were dispersed, the New South Wales police minister, David Elliott, announced the formation of a strike force to identify each of the 3,500 protesters at the “super spreader” event."


That runs against my American grain.
I agree. And the next article is even worse. These are the actions that only a child would come up with. A "ring of steel" around Sydney? Really? Luckily the NSW Premier is a few brain cells smarter than the Victorian Premier, and won't implement such a silly policy. The idea that a microorganism, smaller than the wavelength of visible light, could be contained behind a "ring of steel", is just insane and ludicrous. And, these are the people we trust and support? Please vote these power-mad morons out!!

ring-of-steel-around-sydney-video

I feel like Australia has been slow to get vaccinations out to people, but the good news is that it is happening. This link shows the progress ...
Not sure what you are suggesting here. Are you suggesting that children, those with natural immunity(recovered), those who test negative, and all those in the non-risk category, should voluntarily infect themselves with this vaccine? A vaccine with a risk factor for CVT's from infections. So, why? Over 80% of all people infected are under 40, and are the least likely to die. It is ironic, that it is the over 70's who are the least likely to be infected, yet are the most likely to die. And, even their mortality percentages are low, when compared to the total number of over 70's infected. The implications here is also obvious.

Are you saying that the people should obey and appease the government, just to get their freedoms back? The only real power that every citizen has is their vote. The only power that those who govern fear, is the vote. If this is the government's knee-jerk reaction to a problem, then it doesn't deserve to stay in power.

I believe that everyone should have the right to do whatever makes them feel private, and secure within their own body. If they want to vaccinate themselves, wear masks, to just do anything they are told to do, then that is THEIR business, and THEIR choice. But is MY choice, and My business to expose the truth, and oppose this lunacy by telling what they are NOT cramming down my throat. And, I resent anyone taking away MY choice and MY privacy, and imposing or forcing me to be a part in their madness and hysteria. The stats just don't support the hype.

Despite all the hype and sensationalism,

Victoria has a total of 20,891 cases. With 19,902 recoveries, and 820 deaths. This means that there are 169(179) still active cases in Victoria, that have a 99.16% chance of making a full recovery.

Queensland has a total of 1,763 cases. With 1,707 recoveries, and 7 deaths. This means that there are 49(26 or 21) still active cases in Queensland, that have a 97.21% chance of making a full recovery. Whether they are vaccinated or not.

I can't find the number of recoveries in NSW. But with a little math I can guess. With a total of 7,492 cases and 62 deaths, this will leave 7,430 people recovered or recovering. With 1,829 still active cases, this would mean that there are at least 5,601 recoveries. Which would also mean, that there are 1,829 still active cases in NSW that have a 99.18% chance of making a full recovery.

Does this sound like the stats of a viral apocalypse?
 
Last edited:

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
@Shellandshilo1956 All I'm saying is that being vaccinated against disease isn't some strange, radical concept. Most of us are vaccinated against other diseases, and there are already innumerable ways in which government involves itself in our personal business, including our health. Sorry, but I just don't see the push to get vaccinated as a threat to anyone's freedom or privacy.

I do see Australia as being somewhat oppressive compared to the U.S. in its enforcement of restrictions.

I think the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh the risks. And soon, your population is going to reach that 50-60% mark, and the vaccine should be available to anyone who wants it. At that point, I think everything should open up and go back to pre-Covid conditions.

That's how I see it.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
I think the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh the risks. And soon, your population is going to reach that 50-60% mark, and the vaccine should be available to anyone who wants it. At that point, I think everything should open up and go back to pre-Covid conditions.
Seth, 98.5% of your population is not infected, or have already acquired natural immunity from this virus.
35,1999,465 total infected - 626,762 deaths - 29,511,909 recoveries / 330M total population x 100% = 1.5% of the population. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

So, why should these people voluntarily vaccinate themselves? Should we also immunize babies, cats and dogs(they also can be infected)? Remember, vaccines do not protect you from being infected by any virus. But it CAN lessen its severity, by giving the immune system an early warning. In either case, it should be our choice. But blaming shaming, or spotlighting a percentage of the 98% of people who are NOT infected, is only just the first step. The next step will be forced vaccinations indirectly. Ie., "vaccination cards and passbooks" in Australia. Can't you see a problem, whenever one person is infected by any virus, and the whole population must be vaccinated? Do you think this could be abused? And, can lead to even more intrusions into our privacy.

In the US, you have the Constitution(and Constitutional watchdog groups) to protect your freedoms. So there are social boundaries that the US government can't cross. In Australia, there is no Constitutional provisions to protect our freedoms. And, most people here care more about bitching like hens about the government, than in actually doing anything about it. But when push comes to shove, they always fold, and will side with and rationalize, any silly policy that the government can come up with. Sheep!!

All I'm saying is that being vaccinated against disease isn't some strange, radical concept. Most of us are vaccinated against other diseases, and there are already innumerable ways in which government involves itself in our personal business, including our health. Sorry, but I just don't see the push to get vaccinated as a threat to anyone's freedom or privacy.
Again Seth, you have this nasty habit of creating unrelated and irrelevant premises, to support an unrelated an irrational conclusion. Are you really saying, that because we vaccinate/inoculate our children from very serious and debilitating diseases, or that because the government regularly invades our privacy, that this in someway makes their stupid policies okay? Sorry, only ignorance can justify stupidity. Our privacies and freedoms are NOT being threatened because of how many are being vaccinated, are they?

I do see Australia as being somewhat oppressive compared to the U.S. in its enforcement of restrictions.
I agree. Why can't people simply understand this basic logic. If you believe that wearing a mask will protect you from being infected by this virus, or to protect you from transmitting this virus to someone else, then WHY are you concerned about people who aren't wearing masks? This also applies to people who want to be vaccinated. The people who aren't wearing masks, or NOT vaccinated respect YOUR rights TO wear a mask and be vaccinated, so please respect their rights NOT to do either. The chances are excellent that you won't run into any of the 46 people already hospitalized or quarantined in Queensland. Why can't people just take a moment to think rationally? Or, are the people who grew up believing anything said, or packaged by actors on the boob-tube, immune to even common sense?

Clearly you are NOT going to answer any of my questions for clarity. Or even dispute any of the facts I posit. Unfortunately, this is only how you want to see it. Not how it really is. So, I respect your opinion. And, I hope that you can respect mine for all the reasons I've outlined.
 
Last edited:
Top