Civil war in the USA

@johnsmith @mothra

The two sides have grown intolerant of each other’s points of view. Both sides have heard it all before, and they really aren’t interested in discussing or compromising. This is, in my opinion, childish, and reminds me of young children screaming in anguish at the grocery store because their mommy won’t buy them a piece of candy. They are adults who are spoiled rotten, self-important, self-entitled, and who were never raised to learn how to be a good loser or a gracious winner.

There is a difference between truly wanting a fascist dictatorship and being a poor loser, screaming and ranting and lashing out like a spoiled 3 year old. I think it’s possible that we are confusing the two.

That is not to deny the existence of extremism in the fringes of both the right and left. But serious, violent extremism is not widespread in this country. If it does rear its head, it gets a lot of attention, though, and I can understand how people from other countries get the impression of a country on the verge of a civil war, or fascism, based upon reporting from the sensationalist news media.

*snip the usual shit*
Seth
Let's pretend Democrats are left wing. Who are this 'extreme left' and what bad things have they done?

Show me a left wing Kyle Rittenhouse or a right wing Heather Heyer, or stop fooling yourself
 
Cool. Now, does everyone know this guys name because 'the left' printed his face on t shirts and celebrated him as a hero? Did he get offered well paid jobs in politics? No, the shooter was executed. So my point is well made.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Cool. Now, does everyone know this guys name because 'the left' printed his face on t shirts and celebrated him as a hero? Did he get offered well paid jobs in politics? No, the shooter was executed. So my point is well made.
Also executed was an unarmed 115 lb woman by Capitol Police on January 6th. At any other venue, (such as during an attempt to burn an occupied building in Portland during a left wing riot,) the police officer would have been crucified, but the Capitol Police Officer was hailed as a hero.

A few weeks ago a heavily armed left wing nutcase traveled all the way to the front of the home of a Supreme Court Justice with the intent to murder that justice. Fortunately, there were armed marshals in his way, and he chickened out.

I can give more, but …

Let’s not play this game.

Violent nutcases exist on both sides. They live and think on the fringes. It isn’t even worth arguing about. Some 300+ million Americans live peacefully and cooperatively with each other every day.
 

Squire

Active member
Perhaps the civil war in the USA is actually needed and they should get it over with.

Perhaps Texas, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and California should be returned to Mexico, the original owner.

 

Linus

Member
Violent nutcases exist on both sides. They live and think on the fringes. It isn’t even worth arguing about. Some 300+ million Americans live peacefully and cooperatively with each other every day.
I like your optimism. Circa 2024 will test it and the misgivings us outsiders have.

I wonder if it was conceivable that the Ukraine and Russia would come to blows. Even up to the very last moment before war broke out most people thought it would never happen.

Times are becoming more unstable and with that the probability of unlikely events rises.
 
I like your optimism. Circa 2024 will test it and the misgivings us outsiders have.

I wonder if it was conceivable that the Ukraine and Russia would come to blows. Even up to the very last moment before war broke out most people thought it would never happen.

Times are becoming more unstable and with that the probability of unlikely events rises.
The "on both sides' argument is used by one side to justify their actions. It is BS
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
The "on both sides' argument is used by one side to justify their actions. It is BS
I don't justify it. The older members on this site will vouch for me that when January 6th happened, I posted that I believed Trump had lost his right to govern. I still feel that way.

I happen to be very strong on the rule of law. I believe it must be applied evenly to all, without regard to whose side the lawbreaker is on. This actually puts me at odds with certain positions of the left and right.

I am a conservative leaning Independent with views that put me in agreement with Democrats and Republicans and that put me in disagreement with both of them. It depends on the issue.

As an American, I embrace the right of all to hold and voice their views without repercussions other than a robust counter argument. But threats and acts of violence may not be justified, and must not be tolerated, by either side in a society that respects the Constitution and the rule of law.

I am disgusted and disappointed by those whose partisan hypocrisy outweighs their supposed support for the rule of law, and I see examples of that all ... the ... time.

Seth
 
I don't justify it. The older members on this site will vouch for me that when January 6th happened, I posted that I believed Trump had lost his right to govern. I still feel that way.

I happen to be very strong on the rule of law. I believe it must be applied evenly to all, without regard to whose side the lawbreaker is on. This actually puts me at odds with certain positions of the left and right.

I am a conservative leaning Independent with views that put me in agreement with Democrats and Republicans and that put me in disagreement with both of them. It depends on the issue.

As an American, I embrace the right of all to hold and voice their views without repercussions other than a robust counter argument. But threats and acts of violence may not be justified, and must not be tolerated, by either side in a society that respects the Constitution and the rule of law.

I am disgusted and disappointed by those whose partisan hypocrisy outweighs their supposed support for the rule of law, and I see examples of that all ... the ... time.

Seth
Yes, but show me the 'left' doing any of the bad that is being done? I don't see it, not ever.

The 'left' want every one to be safe and able to live in peace
The 'right' want to kill trans kids, gays, blacks and Muslims

There is no comparing those things
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Yes, but show me the 'left' doing any of the bad that is being done? I don't see it, not ever.

The 'left' want every one to be safe and able to live in peace
The 'right' want to kill trans kids, gays, blacks and Muslims

There is no comparing those things
Only the far right - the whacky right - want to kill people. So does the whacky left. There are numerous other examples I could give, but this sort of whataboutism bores me. An endless and fruitless argument over who is worse, when in fact, both sides are guilty. Partisans simply ignore it when the side they lean towards does it. I am just too old and experienced to bother with any sort of tit for tat example vs example vs example vs example any more than I already have. I took the bait and gave a couple of examples, but now I'm done.

My whole point is that 300+ million Americans live peaceably in cooperation with each other every day, even if their political views differ. If it wasn't so, we'd be engaged in a massive blood bath involving millions of people every day instead.

I believe that the blame for the political polarization we see in America lies at the feet of our feckless, cowardly, selfish career politicians in Washington who actually feed off it and benefit from it.

I saw an interesting article today. It is the start of a new centrist party. We'll see if it gains any traction, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. A great many Americans are sick and tired of the Republicans and Democrats.

 
Only the far right - the whacky right - want to kill people. So does the whacky left. There are numerous other examples I could give, but this sort of whataboutism bores me.
I suspect you know this is bullshit. Democrats are right wing, but, ignoring that, I don't see anyone on 'the left' wanting to kill people for who they are.
 

johnsmith

Administrator
Staff member
Fuck I am glad she died. I wish more did
I'm not even sure how that compares. She was with a mob that were calling for the hanging of the vice president of the day, they even bought their own gallows with them. She was breaking into s secure building to do it. She wasn't shot by extremists, she was the extremist.
 

johnsmith

Administrator
Staff member
Great, but I feel he lost it WAY before that
Seth was awfully quite about trump before that, no matter what he did.

Trumps fan base should have told him to pull his head in as soon as it became clear that there was no cheating and the election results were accurate. Instead they encouraged him which only fed Trumps derangement. The insurrection was the end result.

The sad part is that I'm not sure it's over. He still has his idiot fan base telling him he was cheated out of the presidency. Instead of settling the matter and moving on, it's only going to escalate.
 

Squire

Active member
Seth's belief that Americans love each other and that violence is just an expression of that love is a demented fantasy.

The GOP and its right-wing extremist stooges are fomenting hate among their ilk. Fortunately, it is not a majority but it's a very noisy, loud, influential minority including Fox News personalities.

After the November 2022 mid-term elections it is likely that the GOP will have a majority in congress and that a large majority of states will have the GOP in power. The politics of division will intensify after November 2022.
 

SethBullock

Captain Bullock
Staff member
Seth was awfully quite about trump before that, no matter what he did.

Trumps fan base should have told him to pull his head in as soon as it became clear that there was no cheating and the election results were accurate. Instead they encouraged him which only fed Trumps derangement. The insurrection was the end result.
I wasn’t surprised when Trump lost the election. I believed that most of his policies were good, but that his personality had alienated too many voters while, at the same time, motivating the opposition to vote. I was right about that.

You may recall that after the election I didn’t really care about Trump’s legal challenges to the election results. I didn’t expect them to succeed, but I made the point that the courts and our laws provide for the peaceful resolution of disputes, and Trump had the right to avail himself of that lawful and peaceful system. Not surprisingly, one by one, all of those legal challenges failed.

Where I was wrong was in my expectation that when those court challenges failed, there would be a routine transfer of power on January 20th. I didn’t foresee the events of January 6th. But when that happened, I posted that he had lost my support to remain in office. Had January 6th not been so close to January 20th I would have supported his removal from office by impeachment. But that process takes time, and it quickly became clear that by the time that process could reach its conclusion, his term of office would be over anyway. Effectively, he had already been impeached by the results of the election.

The sad part is that I'm not sure it's over. He still has his idiot fan base telling him he was cheated out of the presidency. Instead of settling the matter and moving on, it's only going to escalate.
A recent poll showed that 59% of Republicans want the party to nominate someone other than Trump for 2024. This means that he still has 41% support in the Party. That could be enough to win the nomination if the 59% against him is divided up among 2 or 3 other candidates. So it is possible that we would see Trump get the nomination in 2024, but he would get crushed in the general election.

My opinion is that Biden and the Democrats have done a horrible job so far, on so many fronts, and there is zero reason to expect them to do any better between now and 2024. A generic Republican other than Trump could win in 2024. But with only 41% support in the Republican Party and very little support among Independents, Trump would get crushed in the general election. The Republicans can therefore nominate someone else and give themselves a chance to win, or they can nominate Trump and commit political suicide. Those are their choices.

As for me, I am not going to vote for the Democratic nominee, nor am I going to vote for Trump. I can’t be sure yet what I’ll do. We’ll see. I could just not vote for the first time in my adult life. But I am going to pay attention to this attempt to form a new, centrist party. If actually gains traction, and if it offers decent policies, maybe I’ll vote for them. Time will tell.
 
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