Absolutely Disgraceful

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
For a long time now the government has been procrastinating and making excuses about granting asylum to the Afghans and their families who helped our soldiers in the fight against the Taliban. It was widely known that once Western troops pulled out, the Taliban would roll back in. Now these people are stranded and will most likely be murdered, along with their families, by the Taliban for aiding our soldiers.

I've never been ashamed to call myself Australian ......... until now. An absolutely disgraceful performance by our government. I can only hope they are haunted by the ghosts of these people for the rest of their lives but knowing how absolutely inhumane our politicians are, I'm betting they won't lose a seconds sleep over it.
Shame on you .'


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...afghanistan-evacuation-slow-failure/100380346
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
A sad day here as well.

I KNEW that the Taliban would take over once we left. I KNEW that the Afghan army would surrender and run. I KNEW that their will to fight never really existed and that any glowing statements about their military prowess was bs.

And I support our withdrawal. Both Trump and Biden agree on that and for much the same reasons. Poorly executed though, and that’s on Biden.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Poorly executed though, and that’s on Biden.

what would you suggest he do differently Seth? The Afghan forces were determined to capitulate as quickly as possible.

I don't think there is any way to leave without turmoil if the Afghan army isn't willing to stand up for itself for even a day.
 

Aussie

Ima da Sheriff
Staff member
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...an-refugee-visa-afghanistan-taliban/100383784


the stupid prick has only just realized he can't get them all out in a day? Whats he been waiting for? For over 6 months the army has been telling him to get them out.

Good thing he's running the country ehhh!
That's true....but Morrison failed to stomp on the Minister for Foreign Affairs who wanted the "Foreignaffairies" to stay. He failed to discipline her, because of his ever so slim majority in Parliament. Payne and Morrison...caused this. Arseholes. They will get away with it because CDF is beholden to Morrison, and will not shit-can him. Weak prick he is. Allegedly up to his neck in the SAS disgrace, and thus Morrison owns his nuts.

Oh well.............while we pontificate, there are desperate people at Kabul who are in great peril. Complete clusterfuck!

Source...........can't say.
 

chris155au

Active member
For a long time now the government has been procrastinating and making excuses about granting asylum to the Afghans and their families who helped our soldiers in the fight against the Taliban. It was widely known that once Western troops pulled out, the Taliban would roll back in. Now these people are stranded and will most likely be murdered, along with their families, by the Taliban for aiding our soldiers.

I've never been ashamed to call myself Australian ......... until now. An absolutely disgraceful performance by our government. I can only hope they are haunted by the ghosts of these people for the rest of their lives but knowing how absolutely inhumane our politicians are, I'm betting they won't lose a seconds sleep over it.
Shame on you .'


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...afghanistan-evacuation-slow-failure/100380346
What if they were still working for the forces all the way until the end?
 

mothra

Administrator
Staff member
It's an absolute disgrace. All of those people and their families should have been set up here with residency and a nice comfortable home. They risked their lives working with allied troops, they deserve protection AND reward.

I'm so heartbroken that the Taliban are in power again. I don't use this word often to describe other people but they are pure evil.
 

SethBullock

Moderator
Staff member
what would you suggest he do differently Seth? The Afghan forces were determined to capitulate as quickly as possible.

I don't think there is any way to leave without turmoil if the Afghan army isn't willing to stand up for itself for even a day.
John, I believe Joe started overturning Trump's decisions on Day One of his administration. He has reversed many of Trump's policies. One thing Joe has shown is that he feels absolutely no obligation to continue anything Trump started.

And so, as Commander in Chief, how Trump would have withdrawn from Afghanistan, or anything Trump did as far as troop drawdowns or whatever in Afghanistan - all of that became irrelevant as soon as Joe was sworn in. From that point forward, this was his baby. Joe had the power to do anything militarily in Afghanistan.

So that said, what could he have done differently?

The answer boils down to being tough with the Taliban. Toughness and power is the only thing they respect, the only thing that influences their behavior.

So, for example, he could have done two things simultaneously months ago.

1) Pound the Taliban using air power. Unleash our air power.
2) Tell the Taliban to hold their positions and quit advancing.

Then tell the Taliban we will stop pounding them if they take a pause. Tell them that if they want us to leave, they have to take a pause. Otherwise, we will delay leaving and just keep pounding them.

The Taliban has never once in 20 years been a military force capable of defeating even a relatively small American unit. In this conflict it is estimated that some 51,000 of them have died to less than 2,000 of ours due to hostile action. The point being that we possess the raw power to stop them. We always have.

What the taliban have is patience and a willingness to die for their cause. But the ability to force us to do anything? Virtually no capability in that regard.

And once we forced the taliban to take a pause, we could have gradually evacuated our Afghan friends first, other civilian Americans, and finally, our military personnel.

Granted, the taliban would have then had the ability to defeat the feckless Afghan army and take over, but we wouldn't have had the debacle that we ended up with.
 

Shellandshilo1956

Active member
THE HUMAN COST OF THIS INSANE AFGHAN WAR

American service members killed in Afghanistan through April: 2,448.

U.S. contractors: 3,846.

Afghan national military and police: 66,000.

Other allied service members, including from other NATO member states: 1,144.

Afghan civilians: 47,245.

Taliban and other opposition fighters: 51,191.

Aid workers: 444.

Journalists: 72.

AFGHANISTAN AFTER NEARLY 20 YEARS OF U.S. OCCUPATION:

Percentage drop in infant mortality rate since U.S., Afghan and other allied forces overthrew the Taliban government: 50.

Percentage of Afghan teenage girls able to read today: 37.

Number of people internally displaced in Afghanistan: 3.5M.

Number of Afghan refugees at the end of 2020: over 2.5M.

OVERSIGHT BY CONGRESS:

Date Congress authorized U.S. forces to go after culprits in Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: Sept. 18, 2001.

Number of times U.S. lawmakers have voted to declare war in Afghanistan: 0.

Number of times lawmakers on Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee addressed costs of Vietnam War, during that conflict: 42

Number of times lawmakers in same subcommittee have mentioned costs of Afghanistan and Iraq wars, through mid-summer 2021: 5.

Number of times lawmakers on Senate Finance Committee have mentioned costs of Afghanistan and Iraq wars since Sept. 11, 2001, through mid-summer 2021: 1.

PAYING FOR THIS WAR ON CREDIT, NOT CASH

Amount President Harry Truman temporarily raised top tax rates to pay for Korean War: 92%.

Amount President Lyndon Johnson temporarily raised top tax rates to pay for Vietnam War: 77%.

Amount President George W. Bush cut tax rates for the wealthiest, rather than raise them, at outset of Afghanistan and Iraq wars: At least 8%.

Estimated amount of direct Afghanistan and Iraq war costs that the United States has debt-financed as of 2020: $2T.


It will cost the US a total of almost 6 Trillion dollars to repay this unnecessary war debt. A debt which it can't realistically repay. So it will remain the highest indebted country in the world. And it's people will continue to live with more poverty and more crime. Every city, county, and state, will continue to be strapped for cash.

All for Nothing!!
 

chris155au

Active member
absolutely. If they were willing to put their lives and that of their families on the line to help our boys, it's the least we should do.
Yeah I agree, but you're assuming that there was enough room on the planes for them all to have been able to fit and be in Australia right now.
 

chris155au

Active member
John, I believe Joe started overturning Trump's decisions on Day One of his administration. He has reversed many of Trump's policies. One thing Joe has shown is that he feels absolutely no obligation to continue anything Trump started.
And what Afghanistan related policy did Trump have which Biden reversed?
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah I agree, but you're assuming that there was enough room on the planes for them all to have been able to fit and be in Australia right now.

thats not an excuse. They've known this was going to happen for over 6 months ... a month ago some of our soldiers here even burned their military medals in protest of the governments lack of action .... even if they'd started acting then, they'd all be out by now. We're not talking millions here, it's about 400 odd people.
 

johnsmith

Moderator
Staff member
One thing Joe has shown is that he feels absolutely no obligation to continue anything Trump started.
Much like Trump did to Obama

Then tell the Taliban we will stop pounding them if they take a pause. Tell them that if they want us to leave, they have to take a pause. Otherwise, we will delay leaving and just keep pounding them.
and if he'd done that you'd be the first to complain he was going back on his promise to withdraw the troops

The point being that we possess the raw power to stop them. We always have.
I agree .... and if this was the 1940's I'd bet there would no longer be a Taliban ... the US would have carpet bombed the whole country and damned the collatoral damage ... but for better or worse, that's not how wars are fought in this day and age

And I agree that Biden (as well as the USA's partners in crime in this endeavor) should have evacuated everyone else first and the soldiers last
 

chris155au

Active member
thats not an excuse. They've known this was going to happen for over 6 months ... a month ago some of our soldiers here even burned their military medals in protest of the governments lack of action .... even if they'd started acting then, they'd all be out by now. We're not talking millions here, it's about 400 odd people.
Yes, but if they were required right up until the end, then how could they have "started acting" a month ago?
 
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