NSW Abortion Bill.

Discuss politics and current affairs here.

Hot topic: The scourge of negative gearing, Friends of the NBN and wrecking lives.  The economy and Poll tracking— all the polls.

Special Feature 1: Peter Costello and our current deficits.
Special Feature 2: Dr Turnbull and the wrong NBN prescription
Special Feature 3: The Denigration of science, technology and education.
.
Forum rules
The rules for this board are in the Charter of Moderation. Politics is for serious discussion of politics, economics and current affairs.

NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 06 Aug 2019, 18:14

This is a totally dishonest bill as it is disguised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ when of course it is MUCH more than that.

How will prosecutorial action be taken against doctors performing outside of the regulations if there is nothing in the NSW Crimes Act? Why is it necessary to remove the part of the Crimes Act which relates to doctors performing abortions?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-04/ ... s/11381824
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby Aussie » 06 Aug 2019, 18:22

I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.
User avatar
Aussie
Minister for Foreign Affairs
 
Posts: 8579
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 17:25

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 06 Aug 2019, 18:38

Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby Aussie » 06 Aug 2019, 18:48

chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.
User avatar
Aussie
Minister for Foreign Affairs
 
Posts: 8579
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 17:25

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 06 Aug 2019, 19:09

Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.


How very weak of you. Talk about a cop out. Alright, fine. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising x’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise x? I look forward to you copping out of even this!
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby greggerypeccary » 06 Aug 2019, 19:22

chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.


How very weak of you. Talk about a cop out. Alright, fine. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising x’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise x? I look forward to you copping out of even this!


So, what's the "more"?

What else is it doing?
User avatar
greggerypeccary
Warthog
 
Posts: 4109
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 14:52
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 06 Aug 2019, 19:59

greggerypeccary wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.


How very weak of you. Talk about a cop out. Alright, fine. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising x’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise x? I look forward to you copping out of even this!


So, what's the "more"?

What else is it doing?


1. The bill purports to make abortion a ‘health issue’ yet effectively treats abortion as a matter of lifestyle preference, by making it an elective procedure, available on request, without requiring any health or medical reason;
2. The bill makes abortions lawful for any reason, including discriminatory reasons such as disability or sex selection;
3. The bill permits late-term abortions, including abortions of viable babies up until full term;

There are also two things that it's NOT doing. Two things that it doesn't protect:

4. The bill has no protection against coercion, making women even more vulnerable to pressure from their partners, family, or others;
5. The bill does not protect women against incompetent or unscrupulous medical practitioners.

If proponents of this bill were serious about protecting the interests of women, then surely they would demand that it includes a criminal offence for coercing a woman into having an abortion – one of the worst forms of domestic violence that can be perpetrated against a woman. How will prosecutorial action be taken against someone who is coercing a woman into having an abortion if it’s not in the Crimes Act?

I am totally in favour of decriminalising abortion to the extent that women should not be prosecuted for having an illegal abortion, although to my knowledge this never happens. I’ve certainly never heard of such a case. For this reason, removal of abortion from the Crimes Act would seem to be just purely symbolic.
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby Dax » 07 Aug 2019, 04:43

A woman has the right to choose whether she wants to have a baby or not, no matter at what time of the pregnancy it is, it's her choice and no one else.

Cohesion, what a load of crap, you could apply that to any one and many medical procedures. Decriminalising it, will make women safer because they will go to proper abortion clinics and not backyard ones of they don't want a child and it doesn't fit into the narrow time frame and circumstances many god nutters want it impose.
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby hatty » 07 Aug 2019, 12:36

Dax wrote:A woman has the right to choose whether she wants to have a baby or not, no matter at what time of the pregnancy it is, it's her choice and no one else.

Cohesion, what a load of crap, you could apply that to any one and many medical procedures. Decriminalising it, will make women safer because they will go to proper abortion clinics and not backyard ones of they don't want a child and it doesn't fit into the narrow time frame and circumstances many god nutters want it impose.


Yup
User avatar
hatty
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: 30 Apr 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby DreamRyderX » 07 Aug 2019, 12:40

Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.




People, male & female, are sometimes 'fence sitters'....don't want the obligation of a decision.........

Am I for choice...for abortion? Or am I for life....am I against abortion?

A lot of women who get abortions probably have doubts right up until the moments before they walked into the clinic to terminate their baby's life.

Something is changing thousands upon thousands of women's minds about abortion.....but, what is it?



....................................................................................What can be so powerful?


................................................................



..
The US Constitution is not an instrument for the US Government to restrain the American People,
it is an instrument for the American People to restrain the US Government.
-- Patrick Henry
User avatar
DreamRyderX
Feral cat
 
Posts: 259
Joined: 14 Jul 2018, 11:45
Location: Victoria, Australia
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby hatty » 07 Aug 2019, 14:13

What can be so powerful?

trump stacking the supreme court with his cronies (rapists) in a direct attempt to obliterate an existing legal precedent?

roe v wade will soon be a distant memory at this rate.

fuck all the parts of the constitution that don't suit me..........and we can then just brag about the ones that do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

congratulations
User avatar
hatty
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: 30 Apr 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Aug 2019, 14:46

Women have always sought abortions/induce miscarriages/visit backyard abortionists. Many died in the attempt due to hemorrhages.

Only sensible thing: safe, medically supervised abortions. Lots of advice on contraception, open sale of contraceptives.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 52670
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 14:37

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby mothra » 07 Aug 2019, 15:36

chris155au wrote:
There are also two things that it's NOT doing. Two things that it doesn't protect:

4. The bill has no protection against coercion, making women even more vulnerable to pressure from their partners, family, or others;
5. The bill does not protect women against incompetent or unscrupulous medical practitioners.




How do you propose to protect a person from coercion in their personal life? I imagine that just as now, counseling will be offered, if not stipulated as is the current norm.

As to unsafe medical procedures, that is safely covered by the requirement of a license to practice, Calm down. It's when abortion os not legal that we need to worry about that.
User avatar
mothra
Duck
 
Posts: 6353
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 17:47
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 15:53

Dax wrote:A woman has the right to choose whether she wants to have a baby or not, no matter at what time of the pregnancy it is, it's her choice and no one else.


And is she able to do that without the support of the government's health system?

Cohesion, what a load of crap,


You mean COERCION? Yes, coercing a woman into having an abortion is one of the worst forms of domestic violence that can be perpetrated against a woman. Don't you think that it should be a crime?

you could apply that to any one and many medical procedures.


If a woman wants to have the kid, but someone is trying to force her to have an abortion, isn't this her bodily rights being
taken away? What other medical procedure would a woman NOT want to get? Presumably everyone wants to get healthy.

Decriminalising it, will make women safer because they will go to proper abortion clinics and not backyard ones of they don't want a child


Are you saying that NSW women are getting backyard abortions?

and it doesn't fit into the narrow time frame and circumstances many god nutters want it impose.


ONLY religious people are against abortion? Surely you can't be serious!
Last edited by chris155au on 07 Aug 2019, 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby Dax » 07 Aug 2019, 15:54

DreamRyderX wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.




People, male & female, are sometimes 'fence sitters'....don't want the obligation of a decision.........

Am I for choice...for abortion? Or am I for life....am I against abortion?

A lot of women who get abortions probably have doubts right up until the moments before they walked into the clinic to terminate their baby's life.

Something is changing thousands upon thousands of women's minds about abortion.....but, what is it?



....................................................................................What can be so powerful?


................................................................



..


Of course many women have doubts and that goes for every endeavour in life. Doubt is like a psychological review switch, it makes you think about what you are about to do, but it's rational logic which makes them abort and nothing else. More women are doing it because of many reasons, economic, environment, world population etc. It's only the crazed god nutters who push for no abortion, yet they are more than happy to slaughter people in their societies to keep their insane gun culture and create war just to get their racist elitist kicks.
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 15:56

Dax wrote:
Of course many women have doubts and that goes for every endeavour in life. Doubt is like a psychological review switch, it makes you think about what you are about to do, but it's rational logic which makes them abort and nothing else. More women are doing it because of many reasons, economic, environment, world population etc. It's only the crazed god nutters who push for no abortion, yet they are more than happy to slaughter people in their societies to keep their insane gun culture and create war just to get their racist elitist kicks.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6093&p=174559#p174559
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby Dax » 07 Aug 2019, 16:05

chris155au wrote:
Dax wrote:A woman has the right to choose whether she wants to have a baby or not, no matter at what time of the pregnancy it is, it's her choice and no one else.


And is she able to do that without the support of the government's health system?

Cohesion, what a load of crap,


You mean COERCION? Yes, coercing a woman into having an abortion is one of the worst forms of domestic violence that can be perpetrated against a woman. Don't you think that it should be a crime?

you could apply that to any one and many medical procedures.


If a woman wants to have the kid, but someone is trying to force her to have an abortion, isn't this her bodily rights being
taken away? What other medical procedure would a woman NOT want to get? Presumably everyone wants to get healthy.

Decriminalising it, will make women safer because they will go to proper abortion clinics and not backyard ones of they don't want a child


Are you saying that NSW women are getting backyard abortions?

and it doesn't fit into the narrow time frame and circumstances many god nutters want it impose.


ONLY religious people are against abortion? Surely you can't be serious!



This is Australia wanker, not the USA or other deranged god nutter society, we have universal healthcare which covers everything. What planet do you live on, certainly not this one or Aus.

How do you force a woman into having an abortion, beat her up, which is what sick god nutters do to those who want abortions and they try to coerce and force women not to have abortions, which is one of the worst forms of abuse you can get and leaves many women devastated for life and stuck with a baby they don't want. But it's fine for god nutters like you to have your own insane way, but not sane logical women.

Have yet to meet or hear of a sane person (non believer) who is against a women's right to chose whether she has a child or not, although expect there maybe some.

This law in NSW, is just bringing legislation in line with what is going on in the community already and nothing else.
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 16:40

Dax wrote:
Decriminalising it, will make women safer because they will go to proper abortion clinics and not backyard ones of they don't want a child


Are you saying that NSW women are getting backyard abortions?
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Aug 2019, 16:44

No, they were driving to Vic and the ACT for safe abortions. Apparently Vic is no longer accepting NSW women.

Time to update the abortion law in NSW.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 52670
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 14:37

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby johnsmith » 07 Aug 2019, 16:49

chris155au wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:
chris155au wrote:
Aussie wrote:I stay away from Threads on abortion. There is never ever going to be a consensus on the issue, not for quite a while anyway.


This isn't a thread on abortion as much as it is a thread on HONESTY. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising abortion’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise abortion?


As soon as I see the word 'abortion,' I am out.


How very weak of you. Talk about a cop out. Alright, fine. Don't you see how a bill that is being advertised as simply ‘decriminalising x’ is dishonest if it does more than just decriminalise x? I look forward to you copping out of even this!


So, what's the "more"?

What else is it doing?


1. The bill purports to make abortion a ‘health issue’ yet effectively treats abortion as a matter of lifestyle preference, by making it an elective procedure, available on request, without requiring any health or medical reason;
2. The bill makes abortions lawful for any reason, including discriminatory reasons such as disability or sex selection;
3. The bill permits late-term abortions, including abortions of viable babies up until full term;

There are also two things that it's NOT doing. Two things that it doesn't protect:

4. The bill has no protection against coercion, making women even more vulnerable to pressure from their partners, family, or others;
5. The bill does not protect women against incompetent or unscrupulous medical practitioners.

If proponents of this bill were serious about protecting the interests of women, then surely they would demand that it includes a criminal offence for coercing a woman into having an abortion – one of the worst forms of domestic violence that can be perpetrated against a woman. How will prosecutorial action be taken against someone who is coercing a woman into having an abortion if it’s not in the Crimes Act?

I am totally in favour of decriminalising abortion to the extent that women should not be prosecuted for having an illegal abortion, although to my knowledge this never happens. I’ve certainly never heard of such a case. For this reason, removal of abortion from the Crimes Act would seem to be just purely symbolic.



what a load of poppy cock
FD.
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
User avatar
johnsmith
Mastodon
 
Posts: 8663
Joined: 25 Sep 2017, 21:39
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 16:50

mothra wrote:
How do you propose to protect a person from coercion in their personal life?


I mean that if someone coerces, then they should be charged. I get that laws don't protect us in the sense that people can still commit a crime, but how will prosecutorial action be taken against someone who is coercing a woman into having an abortion if it’s not in the Crimes Act?

As to unsafe medical procedures, that is safely covered by the requirement of a license to practice, Calm down.


Oh so it's not possible for someone to perform an abortion without a license to practice? What would be stopping someone from doing this if there is nothing in the Crimes Act which says that it is illegal?
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 16:52

johnsmith wrote:
what a load of poppy cock


Your utterly pathetic absence of an argument as to WHY it is "poppy cock" is MOST TELLING! :rofl
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby johnsmith » 07 Aug 2019, 16:54

chris155au wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
what a load of poppy cock


Your utterly pathetic absence of an argument as to WHY it is "poppy cock" is MOST TELLING! :rofl


i'm not here to disseminate your stupidity
FD.
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
User avatar
johnsmith
Mastodon
 
Posts: 8663
Joined: 25 Sep 2017, 21:39
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby mothra » 07 Aug 2019, 16:55

chris155au wrote:
mothra wrote:
How do you propose to protect a person from coercion in their personal life?


I mean that if someone coerces, then they should be charged. I get that laws don't protect us in the sense that people can still commit a crime, but how will prosecutorial action be taken against someone who is coercing a woman into having an abortion if it’s not in the Crimes Act?

As to unsafe medical procedures, that is safely covered by the requirement of a license to practice, Calm down.


Oh so it's not possible for someone to perform an abortion without a license to practice? What would be stopping someone from doing this if there is nothing in the Crimes Act which says that it is illegal?




People being coerced into backyard knee surgery are they?
User avatar
mothra
Duck
 
Posts: 6353
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 17:47
spamone: Animal

Re: NSW Abortion Bill.

Postby chris155au » 07 Aug 2019, 16:56

HBS Guy wrote:
Time to update the abortion law in NSW.


Update the abortion law or just decriminalise abortion?
chris155au
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 565
Joined: 18 Oct 2018, 20:05
spamone: Animal

Next

Return to Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests