Electric Vehicles this week

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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Jan 2020, 19:38

Yup, Battery Tech is going ahead in leaps and bounds, however there is at least one group every week announcing some major breakthrough in the labs of massive increases of Charge speed and Density but very few make it to real world production...The Density of Lithium batteries has doubled over the last 10 years and are about 4 times cheaper. If the trend keeps going for whatever Chemistry takes over it will be great. There are a lot of labs and big money at the moment all figuring out how to make it so.. Very exciting considering how long Lead acid Batteries just stayed at the same amount for Decades :)
Batteries now are about 250 watt hours per KG ,it's thought when they reach 400 they will be good for taking over flight (remember in 2010 they where 120 WH and in 2006 only 80) :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 08 Jan 2020, 20:20

Yes, major and minor improvements being made.

Be nice to see electric cars come down in price!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 12 Jan 2020, 15:31

The development of EV's in Europe, is almost unbelievable, the range of electric motors is amazing and they are now putting in super capacitors, which will increase ranges and shorten charge times to seconds. The latest is lithium graphene cells, backed up with ultra graphene capacitors, Jaguar already has an Ev that uses capacitors to capture regen braking and had a ride on an electric motorbike that uses capacitors for fast charging and regen capture. It has no other brakes and is so light compared to ice bikes, the one I tried and ordered for later this year, is really cool and very fast. has a standard range of 160klm, add rengen and you can extend the range by many times over if done right. I rode a test bike, which was governed in acceleration and top speed, only got to 180kph and nearly fell off with the acceleration. When used the regen, the range shot up every time. Only did 4 laps and stopped with almost 100% charge, the engineer told me they have been able to drive very long distances when on road testing as the capacitors capture all the energy produced, unlike other EV's which lose almost 80% in heat and inability to get the charge into the cells. The capacitors slowly feed the lithium cells from the regen and even though you are racing along, you can watch the range gauge go up for a few minutes after braking as the capacitors feed the cells.

They make my little Kona look like a kids toy and leave tesla in their dust, development wise. This year well may be the big break out year for Ev's and the choices grow every day.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 13 Jan 2020, 04:40

Dax wrote:The development of EV's in Europe, is almost unbelievable, the range of electric motors is amazing and they are now putting in super capacitors, which will increase ranges and shorten charge times to seconds. The latest is lithium graphene cells, backed up with ultra graphene capacitors, Jaguar already has an Ev that uses capacitors to capture regen braking and had a ride on an electric motorbike that uses capacitors for fast charging and regen capture. It has no other brakes and is so light compared to ice bikes, the one I tried and ordered for later this year, is really cool and very fast. has a standard range of 160klm, add rengen and you can extend the range by many times over if done right. I rode a test bike, which was governed in acceleration and top speed, only got to 180kph and nearly fell off with the acceleration. When used the regen, the range shot up every time. Only did 4 laps and stopped with almost 100% charge, the engineer told me they have been able to drive very long distances when on road testing as the capacitors capture all the energy produced, unlike other EV's which lose almost 80% in heat and inability to get the charge into the cells. The capacitors slowly feed the lithium cells from the regen and even though you are racing along, you can watch the range gauge go up for a few minutes after braking as the capacitors feed the cells.

They make my little Kona look like a kids toy and leave tesla in their dust, development wise. This year well may be the big break out year for Ev's and the choices grow every day.

Welcome Back Dax... Hey these sound great what is their name ?
It would feel strange to drive a Bike with 2 motors
I was reading about the NEWA bike that might get built with capacitors, it's much the same set up you described, I wonder why they don't just re use the energy of the capacitor to power the bike instead of loosing power recharging and then discharging the batteries (where most of the energy is loss through chemical reactions)..
After all a Super Capacitor is 95% efficient, then a Lithium battery is about 90% efficient.

Ohh and Tesla regen is 70% effective including the loss of recharging and then reusing the battery to power the vehicle again....
A good article on Regen

https://electrek.co/2018/04/24/regenera ... -it-works/
No machine can be 100% efficient (without breaking the laws of physics), as any transfer of energy will inevitably incur some loss as heat, light, noise, etc. Efficiency of the regenerative braking process varies across many vehicles, motors, batteries and controllers, but is often somewhere in the neighbourhood of 60-70% efficient. Regen usually loses around 10-20% of the energy being captured, and then the car loses another 10-20% or so when converting that energy back into acceleration, according to Tesla. This is fairly standard across most electric vehicles including cars, trucks, electric bicycles, electric scooters, etc.
Keep in mind that this 70% does not mean that regenerative braking will give an 70% range increase. This isn’t going to bump your range from 100 miles to 170 miles. This simply means that 70% of the kinetic energy lost during the act of braking can be turned back into acceleration later.

Wow the ipace has super capacitors, I've never seen any info on this, could you find the source, be interesting to see how they use them, or is it in a prototype ?
I see Lamborghini have been experimenting with capacitors on their hybrids.
Tesla have bought Maxwell and they have very advanced super capacitor Tech and manufacturing, Be interesting to see if they use it in cars or just keep selling them as units.
https://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/
The Bike is probably using Maxwell Capacitors :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 13 Jan 2020, 10:52

Can't tell you the name of the bike it's a prototype and amazing, but it's a European manufacturer. My friend is an electronic design engineer who is deeply into Ev's and has to go overseas to work and develop his knowledge, met him in Austria when checking out Ev's at a motor show and he heard an Aussie voice when asking about an Ev Jaguar. He's involved in the development of this bike as the Aus governments, both federal and state refused to help with the development of his companies Ev bikes and car designs but an Italian company jumped at the chance with the bike and they expect to have them on the road late this year. The back wheel has no hub, the rear motor is the hub and the front motor looks like a drum brake and provides unbelievable traction on corners, when you lean it just goes round as the front motor seems to pull it round. The jaguar is also a prototype and from what I learnt, there are a number of capacitor bikes and cars coming this year. You can't run an Ev purely on capacitors at the moment, they don't hold enough charge, but graphene capacitors look like they will fit the bill.

Had the opportunity to see 3 electric planes, including one which carries 20 passengers and has a range of just over 200klms. Have my eye on a 7 seater which won't be available until 2023, it has solar cells in it's wings and body, they say once you are above the clouds, you will be able to cruise along for a very long time. but not at a great speed. almost like a powered glider above the clouds.

They are very well advanced in building an electric jet engine, didn't see that but got an explanation of how it works. If I have it right, it has more parts than an ice jet engine and consists of multiple electric compressors type things, which compact the air then throw it out the back, this heats the air and provides more usable energy and they are developing ultra graphene capacitors to use in it. The claim is they will be able to increase the capacitance to the point where the battery will be a backup and standby, which will be used for takeoffs where they need the most power to get to cruise altitude.

Came away form the EU, totally confused and now not sure about the Rivian, as there are some really top 4x4 Ev's in the pipe line there and China is keeping up with them. Chinese Ev buses use capacitors and they hope to have an all electric public transport system operating by 2025, across the entire country. We and the USA are decades behind, the Tesla looks like a prehistoric ev compared to what is coming very soon. Also got to see one of the new Zero bikes in the EU, undergoing testing for EU conditions.

Only went to the Eu because one of my friends was very sick and ran into this bloke, when he found out I had flown twin engines and wanted a twin engine and instrument endorsement, asked me if wanted to help bring his new plane home. So got to tour of a number of Ev companies in the EU and china. Now have the hours and experience to get my twin instrument endorsement and if lucky, may get to fly and electric plane later this year if the world holds together long enough and it's safe to go Europe.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 13 Jan 2020, 12:05

Yup lots of advances everywhere in Battery and storage possibilities. How many lab advances actually make it to production though is another thing...
Graphene looks to be the future in both batteries and capacitors and if they can start to lower prices to make it viable then it will really make a impact, no reason they can't, just scale and more research.

I wouldn't discount Tesla yet, the specs on the new Cybertruck are amazing... $40,000 USD for 400km's of range on a vehicle in the F250 class, then $60,000 for 800km's range, Tesla have had a huge Tech leap forward on both density and price to get these numbers, they also just finished research in Canada for their million mile batteries.... This quarter there will be a battery investment meeting with Tesla to announce these advancements... Exiting times , as the second highest valued car company in the world (second to Toyota) they can implement new tech pretty fast :)
It looks like when they release the new battery tech, there is no reason they cant retrofit their existing line up and double all their ranges as well , the question will be will they do the right thing and let existing owners upgrade their battery packs ;)
Exciting times for Electric Vehicles :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 14 Jan 2020, 11:59

When will Tesla stock stop going up


524.86 USD

Mkt cap 94.60B USD

Wow now they are worth more than GM and Ford together...….

There is so much potential with this company and the stock price reflect this....
Biggest Electric Car maker
Most efficient Electric Cars (not one car has been released yet that has more range than the first Model S made in 2012)
Biggest Charging Network in the world
Biggest Battery Supplier in the world
3rd Biggest solar panel supplier in USA and one of the biggest in the word
Leader in Domestic and Large Scale Batteries , still supplied the biggest battery in the world in SA and now contracted to add some more.....
It's so much more than a Car company and I think that is what confuses most people....
They basically supply Solar Panels and a Battery so go off grid if you want
Solar Panels that look like roof tiles if you want your house to look good..
Car
Charging Network to power the car if you need to do more that 600km's in a day otherwise just charge at home and never go to a gas station.
Also every Tesla has all the hardware be Autonomous.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 15 Jan 2020, 09:49

DonDeeHippy wrote:Also every Tesla has all the hardware be Autonomous.... :purple


Autonomous vehicles will never rule roads, they rely upon GPS and computers, neither is reliable and what will people do when travelling, watch movies, sleep. The drive to autonomy is the same as the drive to a cashless society, fiction as people need stimuli to perform and everyone will become like the growing number of urban clones, useless slaves to consumerism and dumb stupidity.

They are already experiences major problems with almost autonomous airliners, the Boeing 737 MAX is almost fully autonomous and they just go crazy and fall out of the sky. Same with autonomous trains and buses, they have more crashes than today's human driven modern ones and if the net or GPS fails, everything fails.

Look at the fires, all the fools had no money so couldn't buy anything because their cards wouldn't work and it's the same with all the business that have gone fully cashless, when the net goes down, they lose all their business, I always carry money and if they increase the ban on cash purchases, which they fully intend doing, society will collapse.

In Europe they are not moving to autonomous vehicles, they already know the consequences of that. They are moving to enhanced protection using technology, so the car will react faster than the driver when a situation arises they driver can't control. Watched as they put a car through an oil water trap so it had virtually no traction or steering, the driver lost it and spun out every time he tried to go through it, but when they switched on the stability computer, it just sailed through the trap. That's the way they are going, the opposite to Tesla and that will become a problem for tesla, because the EU is seriously considering banning fully autonomous vehicles and you can't use them on EU roads currently, without being charged.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Jan 2020, 10:19

Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 15 Jan 2020, 12:39

HBS Guy wrote:Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.

What happens when cab drivers go extinct?

I'm not sure society could handle that?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Jan 2020, 13:48

There will be massively more changes than that!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 15 Jan 2020, 15:04

Dax wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Also every Tesla has all the hardware be Autonomous.... :purple


Autonomous vehicles will never rule roads, they rely upon GPS and computers, neither is reliable and what will people do when travelling, watch movies, sleep. The drive to autonomy is the same as the drive to a cashless society, fiction as people need stimuli to perform and everyone will become like the growing number of urban clones, useless slaves to consumerism and dumb stupidity.

They are already experiences major problems with almost autonomous airliners, the Boeing 737 MAX is almost fully autonomous and they just go crazy and fall out of the sky. Same with autonomous trains and buses, they have more crashes than today's human driven modern ones and if the net or GPS fails, everything fails.

Look at the fires, all the fools had no money so couldn't buy anything because their cards wouldn't work and it's the same with all the business that have gone fully cashless, when the net goes down, they lose all their business, I always carry money and if they increase the ban on cash purchases, which they fully intend doing, society will collapse.

In Europe they are not moving to autonomous vehicles, they already know the consequences of that. They are moving to enhanced protection using technology, so the car will react faster than the driver when a situation arises they driver can't control. Watched as they put a car through an oil water trap so it had virtually no traction or steering, the driver lost it and spun out every time he tried to go through it, but when they switched on the stability computer, it just sailed through the trap. That's the way they are going, the opposite to Tesla and that will become a problem for tesla, because the EU is seriously considering banning fully autonomous vehicles and you can't use them on EU roads currently, without being charged.

Unfortunately people are horrible drivers, about 1 million die per year worldwide from vehicle accidents..... that's 1,000,000 people there are 1200 deaths in Australia plus 10,000's more serious injury.....
A autonomous car only has to be better than our worse drivers to lower the death toll.
Fortunately Tesla's system doesn't need GPS,
I don't get it on the first part you say computers are not reliable then you talk about computers taking over in EU a good thing, so are computers good or bad ?

Sorry but don't agree with anything you put on there Dax , but then again that is my opinion, just like you gave yours :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 15 Jan 2020, 15:11

Bongalong wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.

What happens when cab drivers go extinct?

I'm not sure society could handle that?

Won't need Taxi drivers, will just have autonomous Taxi cars, you book with a app and the car drives to where you are and takes you where you want :)
Tesla have made a Network up for when it is available,if you own one you can go through it and rent your car out, so your car will make money when you don't need it... that's if you want it isn't compulsory. Every Model 3 they have leased out will have to be returned and become a part of their network, , so in about 2 years Tesla will start getting their second hand cars ready for it... They must be pretty confident it will happen by then....
:purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 15 Jan 2020, 15:44

HBS Guy wrote:There will be massively more changes than that!

No shit: that's why Dax has a point :yak yak
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 15 Jan 2020, 15:47

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.

What happens when cab drivers go extinct?

I'm not sure society could handle that?

Won't need Taxi drivers, will just have autonomous Taxi cars, you book with a app and the car drives to where you are and takes you where you want :)
Tesla have made a Network up for when it is available,if you own one you can go through it and rent your car out, so your car will make money when you don't need it... that's if you want it isn't compulsory. Every Model 3 they have leased out will have to be returned and become a part of their network, , so in about 2 years Tesla will start getting their second hand cars ready for it... They must be pretty confident it will happen by then....
:purple

So what kind of work do taxi drivers do instead?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 15 Jan 2020, 15:52

Bongalong wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.

What happens when cab drivers go extinct?

I'm not sure society could handle that?

Won't need Taxi drivers, will just have autonomous Taxi cars, you book with a app and the car drives to where you are and takes you where you want :)
Tesla have made a Network up for when it is available,if you own one you can go through it and rent your car out, so your car will make money when you don't need it... that's if you want it isn't compulsory. Every Model 3 they have leased out will have to be returned and become a part of their network, , so in about 2 years Tesla will start getting their second hand cars ready for it... They must be pretty confident it will happen by then....
:purple

So what kind of work do taxi drivers do instead?

the same work horse drivers did 100 years ago
Should we take away every bobcat, bulldozer and front end loader away because to the millions of jobs they took away from men with shovels ?
move with the times or be left behind, when we work out better ways to do stuff, it is what it is Bongy ;)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Jan 2020, 16:43

We should have some consideration for those made jobless.

Typing pools were the thing for most of my working life—not now tho. Palettes, containers, forklift trucks etc etc all made jobs redundant.

I will wait 15-20 minutes in a queue to have my groceries totted up by a check out chick—not everyone does tho, the self checkouts are usually busy.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 15 Jan 2020, 17:21

HBS Guy wrote:We should have some consideration for those made jobless.

Typing pools were the thing for most of my working life—not now tho. Palettes, containers, forklift trucks etc etc all made jobs redundant.

I will wait 15-20 minutes in a queue to have my groceries totted up by a check out chick—not everyone does tho, the self checkouts are usually busy.

I do the same Monk, I figure is a retail outlet and I like to see a face......
In the same token there will be people that will pay more to have a taxi with a person in it so they can see a face.. Even though it wont be needed:purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Jan 2020, 18:03

Eventually tho fully autonomous is it.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jan 2020, 14:22

HBS Guy wrote:Eventually tho fully autonomous is it.

I really should look into it more but FD is convinced the more autonomous tech gets the more jobs for all... but then id have to look at oz pol again, might just google instead to try to understand the thinking.....
It might be in one of his articles in the site... I liked his reasoning for evolution being non scientific for instance..... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 16 Jan 2020, 14:44

HBS Guy wrote:Eventually tho fully autonomous is it.


That's like saying more population will solve climate change, fully autonomous vehicles require the GPS systems and they are as reliable as the belief in god. You only have to look at the number of GPS failures there currently are around the planet to see that full autonomy for road vehicles won't work.

In WA they are getting rid of drivers for the iron ore trucks and trains, they've already had a number runaway trains and trucks going the wrong way because the GPS and computer systems failed.

GPS, was set up for the military, when they introduced an advanced GPS satellite system, they handed the old one over to the public and it fails constantly. It;s past it's use by date now, was only designed to last 20 years and will fully collapse in the next couple of years. Same will happen to all the near earth satellites currently up there.

The reason that will happen is two fold, satellite congestion and space junk. There are currently over 2000 near earth satellites, and they will quadruple over the next decade. When you add E Musk is now contributing to the collapse by launching tens of thousands of mini satellites to create his own network and we have a company in Aus that is doing the same. Then we have near earth space junk, which is massive. All it needs is for one satellite or piece of junk to crash into another piece or satellite, then we will have a chain reaction that will wipe out every satellite in near earth orbit.

Just like climate change, cosmologists have been telling governments for over a decade that this will happen and yet like everything else, the ideologues refuse to believe in the reality. Your fully autonomous claim, is no different to climate change denial when you look at the facts, just ideological fantasy. As it is now, the majority of clones have no understanding of direction finding and can't go anywhere without their gps leading the way. So it's just pure logic that when the system collapses, more confusion will reign bringing the collapse on faster. So much for your fully autonomous vehicles claim, when the GPS satellites go down, so do autonomous everything, along with most appliances and services, which rely upon satellites for timing accuracy and operation.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jan 2020, 14:55

Tesla who look to be the forefront of autonomous driving don't need GPS and if they did Space X is as we speak are putting up thousand of satellites that could do the same job and would be very integrated with Tesla
Just so you can understand the Space X satellites are 100's of kilometres closer to earth than the others yet still far enough away they will burn out when returning to earth, no chance of a collision , well as much chance of you hitting me in a street
2000 objects over that distance would still make them 100's of kilometres apart how could they chain react ? I'm really interested...

repeat Tesla Autonomous driving doesn't need maps or GPS to work it's neural network works on objects not maps.. So as long as you have a old map downloaded it can find it's way and it's own system will sort out the bumps :)
Google and GM do rely on up to date maps and GPS and that's why they need to be done in fenced spaces where nothing can change :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 16 Jan 2020, 15:00

DonDeeHippy wrote:Tesla who look to be the forefront of autonomous driving don't need GPS and if they did Space X is as we speak are putting up thousand of satellites that could do the same job and would be very integrated with Tesla
Just so you can understand the Space X satellites are 100's of kilometres closer to earth than the others yet still far enough away they will burn out when returning to earth, no chance of a collision , well as much chance of you hitting me in a street

repeat Tesla Autonomous driving doesn't need maps or GPS to work it's neural network works on objects not maps.. So as long as you have a old map downloaded it can find it's way and it's own system will sort out the bumps :)
Google and GM do rely on up to date maps and GPS and that's why they need to be done in fenced spaces where nothing can change :)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :grn :thumb
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jan 2020, 15:07

Dax wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Tesla who look to be the forefront of autonomous driving don't need GPS and if they did Space X is as we speak are putting up thousand of satellites that could do the same job and would be very integrated with Tesla
Just so you can understand the Space X satellites are 100's of kilometres closer to earth than the others yet still far enough away they will burn out when returning to earth, no chance of a collision , well as much chance of you hitting me in a street

repeat Tesla Autonomous driving doesn't need maps or GPS to work it's neural network works on objects not maps.. So as long as you have a old map downloaded it can find it's way and it's own system will sort out the bumps :)
Google and GM do rely on up to date maps and GPS and that's why they need to be done in fenced spaces where nothing can change :)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :grn :thumb

I know when I'm wrong I groan and laugh at myself too :thumb
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 16 Jan 2020, 15:30

As usual, you didn't read my post regarding the satellite system and autonomy or is your programming so strong, you refuse to see reality. Space X who I admire for the way they have gone about entering space by recovering and re-using the rockets, is just contributing to the problem with their thousand so satellites. In my short experience in being a passenger in a model S in the EU, is they do you use GPS and the internet satellite system, it's what they rely upon to get around the country and update their software.
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