Electric Vehicles this week

For scientific papers on AGW, record happenings in the Arctic and the Greenland, Himalayan and Antarctic icesheets. Also weatherstorms and higher than average rainfalls and other extreme weather events.

Open to guest posting.

Moderator: johnsmith

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Bongalong » 08 Jul 2019, 12:54

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:The problem with conversions is the space and weight of the drive train, you either have to use it or develop new wheels and axle setups. That's the big drawback to range and ease of conversion, they are working on an easily made axle/wheel setup that can be dropped into just about any car, with either 4-2-1 motors.

When you take out the standard drive chain/axle setup you save a couple of hundred kilos, which makes a massive difference to range and amount of batteries you can carry. Once they work that all out, conversions for urban vehicles should come in at around $5000-$10000. Rural long range they are looking at less than $20000, for a range of over 500klms and 4x4.
Using 4 motors, you don't need axles or diffs, each motor operates like a LSD, which sounds great, but if the electronics carks it, you may just go round in circles, or not be able to turn. So fail safe systems have to be developed and those are the hold ups for conversions at the moment.

Ahh makes sense, most available conversions are just connected to the gearbox , which I find very uneconomical when I looked into it. I see there are companies still trying to get in wheel motors working, lots of engineering needed to stop inertia though.
Please if they get a web site set up id be very interested to have a look...
You know the worse thing is the old 161 motor is almost 70 years old and still gets 10 litres for 100km, just shows how little they bothered to improve modern motors in efficiency...
:purple

So what's the exact problem with in wheel motors?

:huh
(At the moment it sounds like the pay-off is not there but you might be hinting at a possible theoretical pay-off at some future point for the industry in time?!!?)
"Oi!"
Bongalong
Warthog
 
Posts: 2685
Joined: 25 Jun 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Jul 2019, 17:30

Bongalong wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:The problem with conversions is the space and weight of the drive train, you either have to use it or develop new wheels and axle setups. That's the big drawback to range and ease of conversion, they are working on an easily made axle/wheel setup that can be dropped into just about any car, with either 4-2-1 motors.

When you take out the standard drive chain/axle setup you save a couple of hundred kilos, which makes a massive difference to range and amount of batteries you can carry. Once they work that all out, conversions for urban vehicles should come in at around $5000-$10000. Rural long range they are looking at less than $20000, for a range of over 500klms and 4x4.
Using 4 motors, you don't need axles or diffs, each motor operates like a LSD, which sounds great, but if the electronics carks it, you may just go round in circles, or not be able to turn. So fail safe systems have to be developed and those are the hold ups for conversions at the moment.

Ahh makes sense, most available conversions are just connected to the gearbox , which I find very uneconomical when I looked into it. I see there are companies still trying to get in wheel motors working, lots of engineering needed to stop inertia though.
Please if they get a web site set up id be very interested to have a look...
You know the worse thing is the old 161 motor is almost 70 years old and still gets 10 litres for 100km, just shows how little they bothered to improve modern motors in efficiency...
:purple

So what's the exact problem with in wheel motors?

:huh
(At the moment it sounds like the pay-off is not there but you might be hinting at a possible theoretical pay-off at some future point for the industry in time?!!?)

a thing they call unsprung weight, it's basically the more weight on wheel the more it will bounce when u hit a bump in the road... SO if you have a electric motor as well at the wheel and controllers etc it's more prone to damaging itself and ripping itself off the springs /suspencion.....
Also if the motor is between the 2 wheels and fixed to the car, with 2 axels going to the wheels, the torque isnt all on the suspension as well....they use a independant suspencion on EV's now...
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Dax » 09 Jul 2019, 05:21

Rivian and a few others have 4 electric motors and another manufacturer has 3, the problem here is accessing those kind of motors and they are working on getting drive train weight down so battery weight can be increased. Won't be that long before they crack it and conversions become cheaper and more common. Low range of conversions is because of the huge weight of the original drive train, reducing battery capacity.

Here's a nice and very handy EV which is helping the elderly keep trucking along.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-09/ ... e/11249332

"Yvonne Burton was just a child when Australia's first mass-produced car, the FX Holden, came onto the market.

Now, she's sitting at a purpose-made bus stop in her retirement village, waiting for her lift — an automated vehicle (AV) — to take her to her weekly art class.

The retirement village where Ms Burton lives in Toormina, just outside of Coffs Harbour on the NSW north coast, is trialling some of the latest driverless technology the world has to offer.

"I think we've been very lucky to have this experience," she said.

The electric AV, nicknamed the BusBot, is similar to a mini-bus but with six inward facing seats and no steering wheel."
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 09 Jul 2019, 07:39

Dax wrote:Rivian and a few others have 4 electric motors and another manufacturer has 3, the problem here is accessing those kind of motors and they are working on getting drive train weight down so battery weight can be increased. Won't be that long before they crack it and conversions become cheaper and more common. Low range of conversions is because of the huge weight of the original drive train, reducing battery capacity.

Here's a nice and very handy EV which is helping the elderly keep trucking along.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-09/ ... e/11249332

"Yvonne Burton was just a child when Australia's first mass-produced car, the FX Holden, came onto the market.

Now, she's sitting at a purpose-made bus stop in her retirement village, waiting for her lift — an automated vehicle (AV) — to take her to her weekly art class.

The retirement village where Ms Burton lives in Toormina, just outside of Coffs Harbour on the NSW north coast, is trialling some of the latest driverless technology the world has to offer.

"I think we've been very lucky to have this experience," she said.

The electric AV, nicknamed the BusBot, is similar to a mini-bus but with six inward facing seats and no steering wheel."

yes it looks like 4 engines are becoming standard in high end EV's, I guess 4 smaller motors is better than 2, plus no transfer case would be needed... Probably less strain on two 300hp motors than one 600hp motor or even worse one 1200hp motor.

the bus in Coffs sounds great, I'm sure in Byron there is a solar power tourist train as well.. :purple
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Dax » 09 Jul 2019, 16:31

From what I've been told by my EV friends, using 4 motors reduces weight, motor size is very small as they get more hp to the ground without any bits and pieces, they are part of the wheel and pivot with the wheels. This means you always have the motors run line with the wheels direction, so there is less drag and with virtually no moving parts other than motor and pivot points. Don't quote me on this, was listening to a conversation between EV techies, so didn't get the intricate bits. The gains with wheel based motors result in a 15-25% gain in SOS (state of charge), instead of having to use a 600hp motor or two 300hp, they can use 4x100hp motors and get more power to the ground than 1-2 motors, which results in more economy. Less tyre wear because there is much less drag on the tyres when being forced round a corner, the motors pull the wheels round the corner and they get more back from regenerative braking than single dual motors do. They say with a single motors you lose a lot of energy in the drag and slipping caused by the running gear and drive train.

So it seems 4 wheel mounted motors may become the norm for middle and high end ev's. Have already hassled hem fr a price to convert my series hdj80 cruiser to 4 motor ev. I fit can be done and still compete as the best off road family vehicle there is for sale a reasonable price.

We may see the resurrection of king pins, that way the motor can fit between the wishbone suspension and he back wheels will turn as well, so if yo get bogged, instead of having to go backwards and forwards, you just turn the wheels and go sideways and same with parking, pull up at a space, turn the wheels inward and slide in, cool eh.

Just love my constant 4x4 cruiser, like driving on rails in mas conditions so can only imagine what it will be like to drive a big 4x4 4 motor drive EV, with built in solar panels and a pop up small wind generator and adventuring bashing here we come. The new solar cells mentioned in another thread along with the graphene solar cells, which will at least double output, implanting solar cells into the cars body, will mean you can go just about anywhere and al you have to do is sit round for a couple of days at worst. You will have power no matter where you are and will be comfortable.
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Bongalong » 09 Jul 2019, 17:46

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:The problem with conversions is the space and weight of the drive train, you either have to use it or develop new wheels and axle setups. That's the big drawback to range and ease of conversion, they are working on an easily made axle/wheel setup that can be dropped into just about any car, with either 4-2-1 motors.

When you take out the standard drive chain/axle setup you save a couple of hundred kilos, which makes a massive difference to range and amount of batteries you can carry. Once they work that all out, conversions for urban vehicles should come in at around $5000-$10000. Rural long range they are looking at less than $20000, for a range of over 500klms and 4x4.
Using 4 motors, you don't need axles or diffs, each motor operates like a LSD, which sounds great, but if the electronics carks it, you may just go round in circles, or not be able to turn. So fail safe systems have to be developed and those are the hold ups for conversions at the moment.

Ahh makes sense, most available conversions are just connected to the gearbox , which I find very uneconomical when I looked into it. I see there are companies still trying to get in wheel motors working, lots of engineering needed to stop inertia though.
Please if they get a web site set up id be very interested to have a look...
You know the worse thing is the old 161 motor is almost 70 years old and still gets 10 litres for 100km, just shows how little they bothered to improve modern motors in efficiency...
:purple

So what's the exact problem with in wheel motors?

:huh
(At the moment it sounds like the pay-off is not there but you might be hinting at a possible theoretical pay-off at some future point for the industry in time?!!?)

a thing they call unsprung weight, it's basically the more weight on wheel the more it will bounce when u hit a bump in the road... SO if you have a electric motor as well at the wheel and controllers etc it's more prone to damaging itself and ripping itself off the springs /suspencion.....
Also if the motor is between the 2 wheels and fixed to the car, with 2 axels going to the wheels, the torque isnt all on the suspension as well....they use a independant suspencion on EV's now...

Thanks goes to you, wholeheartedly, for explaining what the kids going forward have to deal with... with the safety of your knowledge: WELL DONE ,SIR :beer
"Oi!"
Bongalong
Warthog
 
Posts: 2685
Joined: 25 Jun 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 10 Jul 2019, 06:25

Dax wrote:From what I've been told by my EV friends, using 4 motors reduces weight, motor size is very small as they get more hp to the ground without any bits and pieces, they are part of the wheel and pivot with the wheels. This means you always have the motors run line with the wheels direction, so there is less drag and with virtually no moving parts other than motor and pivot points. Don't quote me on this, was listening to a conversation between EV techies, so didn't get the intricate bits. The gains with wheel based motors result in a 15-25% gain in SOS (state of charge), instead of having to use a 600hp motor or two 300hp, they can use 4x100hp motors and get more power to the ground than 1-2 motors, which results in more economy. Less tyre wear because there is much less drag on the tyres when being forced round a corner, the motors pull the wheels round the corner and they get more back from regenerative braking than single dual motors do. They say with a single motors you lose a lot of energy in the drag and slipping caused by the running gear and drive train.

So it seems 4 wheel mounted motors may become the norm for middle and high end ev's. Have already hassled hem fr a price to convert my series hdj80 cruiser to 4 motor ev. I fit can be done and still compete as the best off road family vehicle there is for sale a reasonable price.

We may see the resurrection of king pins, that way the motor can fit between the wishbone suspension and he back wheels will turn as well, so if yo get bogged, instead of having to go backwards and forwards, you just turn the wheels and go sideways and same with parking, pull up at a space, turn the wheels inward and slide in, cool eh.

Just love my constant 4x4 cruiser, like driving on rails in mas conditions so can only imagine what it will be like to drive a big 4x4 4 motor drive EV, with built in solar panels and a pop up small wind generator and adventuring bashing here we come. The new solar cells mentioned in another thread along with the graphene solar cells, which will at least double output, implanting solar cells into the cars body, will mean you can go just about anywhere and al you have to do is sit round for a couple of days at worst. You will have power no matter where you are and will be comfortable.

yup and there is no reason the roof and awnings of a caravan cant be solar panels as well...
I see Toyota have put panels on a Prius and doing some testing they apparently have 800w on the thing..... :purple
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Dax » 14 Jul 2019, 10:15

Another range test of a tesla model 3 that says it only gets 400klm at 90 kph and 300klm at 120kph. The Kona on the Hume at 110kph, did 425klm before deciding to stop for a charge and only used the regen a couple of times, when stopping for a break and when there was a hold up because of a crash and unlike ICE vehicles, you don't use any power when stopped.

https://insideevs.com/news/359667/video ... ange-test/
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Bongalong » 14 Jul 2019, 16:00

The quantitative argument is what can change the future for the better and nothing else.
"Oi!"
Bongalong
Warthog
 
Posts: 2685
Joined: 25 Jun 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby Dax » 15 Jul 2019, 15:57

Bongalong wrote:The quantitative argument is what can change the future for the better and nothing else.


That's easy to answer, get rid of 99.9% of humans and the future will become a better place instantly, plus survivors wouldn't have to wait to have their cars charged.

This is an interesting article, show where Evs a going and how we will soon have such a variety, wont be long before everyone is driving one, new or second hand.

"The ID.3 is the first dedicated electric-powered model from Volkswagen. Based on a newly developed platform known internally as the MEB (Modularen Elektrik Baukasten, or Modular Electric Toolkit), it is also the first in an extended range of up to 10 new electric models set to carry the name of Volkswagen’s new ID. sub-brand, many of which have already been revealed in lightly veiled concept guise."

https://

www.drive.com.au/review/volkswagen-id-3 ... ign=tile-2

There are many second hand tesla's for sale in Aus, on wonders why they are on th market an the same in the USA.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/

https://www.drive.com.au/car-sales/buy- ... alia/tesla

https://www.carsguide.com.au/buy-a-car/ ... pes/tesla/

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-vans- ... els/c18320
User avatar
Dax
Cheetah
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: 12 Apr 2017, 11:15
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicals this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jul 2019, 06:55

There are very few Tesla's for sale really, there are about 3000 sold and 100 up for sale
here are some numbers I've made the search from 2015, that when Tesla's came into the market for the 3 big luxury vehicals, BMW, Merc and Audi... look at the numbers for sale and the low KM's I think it's more a luxury vehicle thing to only own a car for a few years and low KM's.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/result ... 5..%29.%29

BMW 3500
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/result ... 5..%29.%29

Merc 5200

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/result ... 5..%29.%29

AUDI 3100

You can do a search on any car and see lots for sale that are only a year of 2 old and low kilometres,,, i don't know why this happens, i guess every car has a human story behind it...

I can tell you one thing though if Tesla get their cars to be Autonomous and capable of being Robot taxi's all these second-hand cars already have the hardware to do so and will be bought up very quickly as they will be a appreciating assets... Tesla are forecasting this to be a reality by the end of the year, probably next year... :purple
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 16 Jul 2019, 13:56

Dax wrote:
Bongalong wrote:The quantitative argument is what can change the future for the better and nothing else.


That's easy to answer, get rid of 99.9% of humans and the future will become a better place instantly, plus survivors wouldn't have to wait to have their cars charged.

This is an interesting article, show where Evs a going and how we will soon have such a variety, wont be long before everyone is driving one, new or second hand.

"The ID.3 is the first dedicated electric-powered model from Volkswagen. Based on a newly developed platform known internally as the MEB (Modularen Elektrik Baukasten, or Modular Electric Toolkit), it is also the first in an extended range of up to 10 new electric models set to carry the name of Volkswagen’s new ID. sub-brand, many of which have already been revealed in lightly veiled concept guise."

https://

http://www.drive.com.au/review/volkswag ... ign=tile-2

There are many second hand tesla's for sale in Aus, on wonders why they are on th market an the same in the USA.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/

https://www.drive.com.au/car-sales/buy- ... alia/tesla

https://www.carsguide.com.au/buy-a-car/ ... pes/tesla/

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-vans- ... els/c18320

Well I didn't mean that argument: but, yeh, fair enough... the population problem will have to be addressed at some point and somehow because if it's left to natural attrition it could get very ugly and I suppose it already is... because oil is a resource and 9-11 used airplanes as the iconic weapon to start what could probably be semi-defined as the population debate we all need to have. (Though I'm obviously being very abstract in my thinking there!)

Maybe it's time to have that debate very soon infact!
"Oi!"
Bongalong
Warthog
 
Posts: 2685
Joined: 25 Jun 2018, 11:48
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Jul 2019, 09:01

Tesla has included a 620km Long Range Model 3 in its newly updated configurator across Model S, Model X and Model 3 EVs in Australia and New Zealand for deliveries due to start September.
The Model 3 now has three choices – the Standard Range Plus (460km range) at about A$66,000, Long Range (620km) for A$85,000 and Performance (560km) for A$91,200, previously limited to two.
The first deliveries happened in Sydney on the the 16th...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Jul 2019, 09:20

http://evtalk.com.au/worlds-largest-ev-proves-worth/

A Komatsu e-Dumper from Kuhn Schweiz AG, reported to be the world’s largest operating EV, has been proving its worth during the past year.
The e-Dumper weighs 111 tonnes (fully laden) and transports 60 tonnes of lime and marl (clay and lime rock or soil) from a mountain extraction area in Switzerland to a transport system below, recovering energy through regenerative braking on the downhill run.
The truck saves about 50,000 tonnes of diesel and 130 tonnes of carbon dioxide annually.
It has a 4.5-tonne 600kWh battery provided by Lithium Storage GmbH, used to power the uphill (unladen) run, and the surplus is fed into the electricity grid.

The e-Dumper’s tyres are more than 1.8 metres high and it is able handle inclines of 13%. Drivers have to climb nine stairs to the cab.

unfortunately the article doesn't say how much electricity it used and a cost difference of diesel and Electric... but even so that mush fossil fuel not being burnt and put in the air is impressive...
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
User avatar
DonDeeHippy
Jaguar
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 20:18
spamone: Animal

Previous

Return to Global Warming and Australian Energy Market

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron