Brewing beer

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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Aug 2018, 12:56

HBS Guy wrote:Yeah, can ferment lagers everntually. Suggest you stick to ales tho for the time being.


I have more than enough to learn by sticking to the easiest one.
Think this latest brew has stopped fermenting before it should. Hope 20 degrees is not too cold.
Will do another SG reading on it this arvo. Last reading was 1.018 on thursday afternoon.

I won't 'interrupt' it though. Have to let it run its course.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Aug 2018, 13:04

That has probably finished. If not, stir the yeast cake up and it will.

No, 20°C is not too cold.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Aug 2018, 19:06

We are ok, it was 'gently fizzing' in the SG sample.
i probably did not look at the SG sample closely enough last time.
Did notice last time it looked milky, maybe that was small bubbles.
Cannot see the airlock showing a pressure, but I only see it once every 4 days or so for a few seconds. It is not visible or watched for any period of time.

SG was 1.015, which is lower than 2 days ago, all is well. Tasted not as sweet, smooth flavour, mouthfeel coming on. Could well be best brew yet.
Already seems 'cooler and slower is better. Thanks HBS.
Am guessing the fermentation will take a few day or so longer at a lower temp
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Aug 2018, 20:00

When you pitch 12g yeast sachets that will change: I could ferment a 1160 ale (Burton Old Ale clone, three mashtuns and two kettles :bgrin ) to it s FG of about 1040 in 5 days.

If you want to rehydrate dry yeast:

10 x as much water by weight as the yeast—120ml

Danstar Nottingham and Windsor ale yeasts—add yeast at 40°C, Safeale yeasts at 35°C (there may be more specific instructions on the Safale packets.)

I pour boiling water into the measuring jug, swirl, empty. Add measures amount of the boiled water, insert thermometer, cover with clingfilm. When water is at right temperature sprinkle yeast carefully over the top, nice and evenly. Cover up with clingfilm again. DO NOT ADD ANY SUGAR OR WORT ETC! Clean, hot water—the yeast are rehydrating, looking after their cell walls etc, NOT about eating. Water gets into the cells by osmosis, any sugar reduces the omosis potential!

A live yeast will “rain down” gently and form a smooth beige layer on the bottom of your jug. A dead yeast tends to drop down in one mass and form a grainy layer. Ignore crap you might read about a live yeast “foaming” that is just air being forced out by the hot water.

Leave it all happen for 15 minutes, stir well, pitch into your wort.


PS—an airlock is not a reliable indicator of fermentation, use the hydrometer!
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Aug 2018, 20:51

Thanks HBS, this has been very good.
I was disappointed after my first batch. It was really bad.
2nd batch was better, I thought of some things to improve. Glass is better than PET bottles imho, and inverting the bottles after using sanatizer helped.
3rd batch is fermenting at 20 degrees and should be a step up from the 2nd one. The temp change is a big difference. That will make a big difference.

will do a 4th brew in a week or 2. Using coopers dark ale, a bag of 'beer improver', Nottinghams rehydrated yeast .
Might set it at 18 degrees.

It was hard to set it at 20 degrees when in the can is printed 25 degrees, the guy at the shop said anywhere from 20 --> 30 degrees
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Aug 2018, 21:12

I think they say to ferment it warm because the little bitty packet that came with the can is inadequate.

Remember to aerate well. That is the key to getting the yeast population huge so it outperforms bacteria and ferments your beer out quickly.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Aug 2018, 21:30

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/nottingham-high-performance-ale-yeast/

they say 10 - 22 degrees is optimal. So 17 will be good.

........... REHYDRATION

Rehydration of Nottingham is recommended for use, and will reduce osmotic stress on the yeast when rehydrated and pitched in liquid form.
Rehydration guidelines are quite simple, and present a much lower risk of contamination than a starter, which is unnecessary with dried active yeast.

Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight in clean, sterilized water at 30-35°C (86-95F).
Do not use wort, or distilled or reverse osmosis water, as loss in viability will result. DO NOT STIR.
Leave undisturbed for 15 minutes, then stir to suspend yeast completely, and leave it for 5 more minutes at 30-35°C.
Then adjust temperature to that of the wort and inoculate without delay.
Attemperate in steps at 5-minute intervals of 10°C to the temperature of the wort by mixing aliquots of wort.
Do not allow attemperation to be carried out by natural heat loss. This will take too long and could result in loss of viability or vitality.
Temperature shock, at greater than 10°C, will cause formation of petite mutants leading to long-term or incomplete fermentation and possible formation of undesirable flavors.
Nottingham yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration.
The yeast contains an adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth.
It is unnecessary to aerate wort upon first use.
When using Lallemand Brewing Yeasts, you may repitch the yeast just as you would any other type of yeast according to your brewery’s SOP for yeast handling. ...........



http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lallemand-tds-nottingham-021317-2.pdf
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Aug 2018, 21:42

I would always have a couple packets Nottingham in my fridge—saved my life at least once when a starter turned bad.

Yeast kept in a fridge will last 3-5 years easily.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 11 Aug 2018, 21:51

HBS Guy wrote:I think they say to ferment it warm because the little bitty packet that came with the can is inadequate.

Remember to aerate well. That is the key to getting the yeast population huge so it outperforms bacteria and ferments your beer out quickly.


oh, so the 11 gm packets of yeast are much larger than what comes with the can?
In hindsight I aerated it twice. Water from the tap happily gushed into a glass pyrex bowl of about 4L, then I poured that from a good height into the fermenter. splashing it in happily.

I wonder if the 25 degree thing is a marketing thing ?
They print '25 degrees' on their cans because it is a temperature yeast will live at and people can maintain easily.
It'll make substandard beer, but it will make beer and everyone thinks they can hold a temp of 25 degrees 'pretty well'.


20 degrees or less will make much better beer, but it will put customers off buying the can.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Aug 2018, 22:03

And the 6g packets with half the yeast dead need the warmth to keep going.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 12 Aug 2018, 05:34

Had the local brew shop told me some of this when I was asking and listening they would have won a customer.
They didn't.

Might buy a fridge for fermenting in. In summer in QLD the humidity is high. I sense my peltier cooled enclosure will struggle, especially if set to 17 degrees.
I also need an enclosure for conditioning beer in, The enclosure will be ok for that.
Might as well buy a brand new fridge only, full size, named brand. It'll work better, last longer, cheaper to run and can use it for other things at times.
Those little bar fridges do not appeal to me.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 12 Aug 2018, 06:23

Wow

.............. In Lallemand’s Standard Conditions Wort at 20°C (68°F) Nottingham yeast exhibits:
Vigorous fermentation that can be completed in 4 days
High Attenuation and High Flocculation
Neutral to slightly fruity and estery flavor and aroma
The optimal temperature range for Nottingham yeast when producing traditional styles is 10°C (50°F)* to 22°C (72°F) *
at lower temperature it is possible to ferment lager-style
beers in all-malt wort within 9 days ..............


fermenting in 4 days !
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Aug 2018, 09:19

Yup :bgrin

Interesting that they now recommend 30-35°C, it used to be 40°C, the Safale yeasts always recommended 30-35°C.

I always brewed in winter but a seven hour full mash brew in summer heat not pleasant. Not such a big deal for a kit brew done in the kitchen.

You can make up your own brew improver packs:

1. A 1Kg Improver Pack should contain 750g dry extract, 250g dextrose

2. Some dried malt extracts include light and dark, with the dark just light malt extract with coloring added

—but there are Munton’s excellent dry malt extracts, lots $$$$

2.1. Light and I think there is an ultra light

2.2. Amber. 100–150g of Munton’s Amber will really give a richness to your brews!

2.2. Wheat. Wheat has much more protein than malting barley and protein is what puts and keep a head on your beer. Protein also adds mouthfeel. I usually added some flaked or puffed (feed) barley or wheat to my mashes because I believe a bucket of suds needs suds!

2.3. Dark, a true dark extract not light malt colored dark.

You might come across mentions of kandi sugar—ignore it, what you can get is not the black syrup Belgian Trappist breweries use! Cane sugar can add a twang to your beer but in a biggish stout (can kit, can liquid malt, improver Pack type deal) can add 500g Billington’s Dark or Molasses sugar. Apart from that stay away from cane sugar.

The Munton’s extracts are available from BrewCraft stores, $$$ unfortunately. Quality costs but there is a large amount of ripping off too! Buy the Wheat, Amber and Dark and use the cheaper light malt extract.

An Improver Pack needs to be added to cold water then bring it to the boil and boil five minutes. A few hop pellets will add a nice “nose” to your beer. You are then ready to steep some grain and add more flavor. This is not mashing, just steeping.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby DonDeeHippy » 12 Aug 2018, 12:11

Hey Monk a bit off topic, but just wondering.....
When they advertise some beer's as being low carbs, is it just crap or have they actually removed most of the Carbs, I mean its all grains, so full of carbs. I know the sugar is consumed.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Aug 2018, 14:04

I don’t really know, ’Hippy.

Knowing our megaswill brewers tho I think they have a lot of sugar in the wort which evaporates leaving little carbohydrate behind.

They could also mash at a low temperature and maybe add enzymes, perhaps to the fermenter. The enzymes would break down the dextrines to simple sugar (glucose, maltose, maltotriose) that get fermented.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby DonDeeHippy » 12 Aug 2018, 17:03

HBS Guy wrote:I don’t really know, ’Hippy.

Knowing our megaswill brewers tho I think they have a lot of sugar in the wort which evaporates leaving little carbohydrate behind.

They could also mash at a low temperature and maybe add enzymes, perhaps to the fermenter. The enzymes would break down the dextrines to simple sugar (glucose, maltose, maltotriose) that get fermented.

ok more research :) and thanks
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Aug 2018, 17:42

Did I say evaporates? Gets fermented.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 12 Aug 2018, 20:45

DonDeeHippy wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:I don’t really know, ’Hippy.

Knowing our megaswill brewers tho I think they have a lot of sugar in the wort which evaporates leaving little carbohydrate behind.

They could also mash at a low temperature and maybe add enzymes, perhaps to the fermenter. The enzymes would break down the dextrines to simple sugar (glucose, maltose, maltotriose) that get fermented.

ok more research :) and thanks


That is all way above me
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Aug 2018, 20:59

You will get there, never fear!
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 13 Aug 2018, 17:35

HBS Guy wrote:You will get there, never fear!


Thanks. I need it.

Did another SG reading, it had stopped working. Was at 10.018
I had bought a can of 'Coopers dark ale' and a few packets of nottingham yeast.

I used the yeast that was with the coopers dark ale in the exisiting stalled fermentation.
Rehydrated it first. I doubt this brew will work.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Aug 2018, 18:50

I have krausened a stuck ferment: scraped the foam of a new batch, pitched it into the stuck ferment. But I had half a dozen fermenters, not because I drank so much beer but some beers took time—lagers, for example.

Another way is to remove say 1L wort, pitch a yeast into it, when it is fermenting, pitch into the fermenter.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 13 Aug 2018, 23:55

if it is not working by tomorrow I will discard it and start again

have a can of coopers dark ale, pack of dextrose/hops and pack pf nottingham yeast.
Start afresh.
Maybe that standard yeast is not so good at 20 degrees ?
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2018, 05:31

No, I doubt that is why it stalled.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2018, 05:34

Sanitise your brew paddle, take the lid off your fermenter, and STIR that yeast cake up so the yeast goes back up into the partly fermented beer and it should be OK.

1018 is a bit high, definitely needs to drop to 1010–1012.
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Re: Brewing beer

Postby Sprintcyclist » 14 Aug 2018, 11:15

Ah did not think of that. That might well have worked.
I threw it all out and started a new one. This one is active within an hour, which is how the other ones went.
This is using hydrated nottinghan yeast at 20 degrees, not 25.

good, I thought 1.018 was too high and would lead to exploding bottles if I bottled it.
I was thinking 1.010 --> 1.005 was ok. I am getting bits right. This is much harder than i thought.

Wonder why it stopped working.
With the standard yeast pack being 7 gms instead of vs 11 gms it is always going to be marginal, then not rehydrating it first.
So we are down do 4 gms, instead of 10 or so.
Won't need much else to be imperfect and it will hesitate, stall and crash. .

the nottinghams site said to will ferment a batch in 4 days.
So by saturday, it should be good. I will bottle it on sunday - all being well
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