Renewable energy developments

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DonDeeHippy
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Chuck wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Plenty of Lithium , no need to go to the sea bed, Tesla for one are using less and less cobalt, and just about all battery manufacturers are working out ways to use less or none.....
Battery chemistry is changing so much and so many laboratories using different combinations... I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years we will have all new compounds, then to work out if we have good resources... :purple
U choose to ignore current adverse effect on the community and the environment simply for EV!
What...? In which way am I ignoring adverse effects on the environment and community with EV's....
Firstly do u take in what I put on this website?

If we revisit this wistful Tesla example, a lithium-ion battery contains lithium, nickel, and cobalt, two of which (lithium and cobalt) Tesla already is says are in short supply.
Most lithium comes from the “Lithium Triangle” — Argentina, Chile, and Bolivia — where the sought-after resource uses huge amounts of fresh water in an already arid region and pollutes the rest with toxic chemicals.

Cobalt is no better; the Democratic Republic of the Congo is the main supplier of the world’s cobalt, where an unknown number of children work in hazardous mine conditions for meager pay.

Basically, your hands might be dirty, even if your technology is “clean.” And, to put a cherry on top of this harrowing sundae, there’s evidence to support the fact that many terrestrial ore grades, or the quality of extracted metals, are falling.


Have u got any investment in any company’s that is beneficial to EV?
Ok first of all, could you put a link to your article...
the article you posted sounds quite old (probably 3-4 years) If it's not old it's using old quotes from Tesla...

Lithium is in plenty of supply and just what's been found in Australia could supply the world...Tesla also has bought a Lithium mine only 100km's from their battery factory and that will start suppling . That is not a issue anymore...

cobalt as I said is being reduced and replaced as they change the materials in Batteries.
Speaking of Tesla, about 3 years ago they stopped sourcing Cobalt in Africa and now get it elsewhere, I think somewhere in SE Asia. Also their new batteries use 90% less cobalt then their original batteries and still working on ways to reduce that amount. That is happening now...
Your also forgetting Car batteries are big enough it's well worth while to recycle them and reuse them when they are no longer usable in a car....
Of course the biggest thing your missing, the alternative is burning up thousands of litres of Fossil fuels during the life time of the car if it's not electric...How good for the environment is that. If you think that doesn't poison you then suck on the tailpipe for awhile and let us know how you go....
You also haven't clarified how I'm ignoring the Community....
:purple
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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I think he also forgot to mention how many innocent people die in blood for oil wars!
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Bongalong wrote:I think he also forgot to mention how many innocent people die in blood for oil wars!
What u people aren’t grasping from the articles that I put forward, is to reserve ur enthusiasm for the outcomes in 10-20 years time.

It appears that u people haven’t learnt anything from history of what was perceived as progress for mankind!

As I’ve mentioned quite a number of times "whatever mankind does, results in unintended consequences, all we can hope for, is that it has less detrimental affect then what is replacing".

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Chuck wrote:
Bongalong wrote:I think he also forgot to mention how many innocent people die in blood for oil wars!
What u people aren’t grasping from the articles that I put forward, is to reserve ur enthusiasm for the outcomes in 10-20 years time.

It appears that u people haven’t learnt anything from history of what was perceived as progress for mankind!

As I’ve mentioned quite a number of times "whatever mankind does, results in unintended consequences, all we can hope for, is that it has less detrimental affect then what is replacing".
What you pretend to have not grasped is the fact that bullshitt walks!
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Bongalong wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Bongalong wrote:I think he also forgot to mention how many innocent people die in blood for oil wars!
What u people aren’t grasping from the articles that I put forward, is to reserve ur enthusiasm for the outcomes in 10-20 years time.

It appears that u people haven’t learnt anything from history of what was perceived as progress for mankind!

As I’ve mentioned quite a number of times "whatever mankind does, results in unintended consequences, all we can hope for, is that it has less detrimental affect then what is replacing".
What you pretend to have not grasped is the fact that bullshitt walks!
Couldn't of put it better Bongy, Chuck does a old article that's very low in fact and thinks it's some profound statement... :purple
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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U simply being ignorant of what happened from past perceived solutions to many problems society had faced.

It appears that monetary greed is the main reason for u to ignore histories lessons!
Otherwise any normal person would view any new progress with caution!

Go back and read my post how cars were god send to the pollution caused by horses in the cities etc.

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Deep-sea miners see Tesla growth as signal to pluck cobalt Nathanial Gronewold, E&E News reporter • Climatewire: Monday, January 6, 2020

The opening of Tesla Inc.'s massive manufacturing plant in China brings deep-seabed mining closer to reality,
industry scientists say.

Several private and government-owned companies are proposing to scour vast areas of remote ocean seafloor to extract high concentrations of nickel, manganese, rare earth metals and especially cobalt. A U.N. agency is close to finalizing rules for extracting metals from international waters.

Cobalt is a critical component for safety; it prevents batteries from overheating and catching fire. Batteries can be manufactured without cobalt but must be fitted with cooling systems, which adds complexity and detracts from battery function and efficiency.

Word that Tesla wants to build 1,000 cars a week in China, the world's largest EV market, is fueling the aspirations of companies like DeepGreen Metals and Ocean Minerals LLC, which plan to extract huge quantities of cobalt from the ocean floor

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Chuck wrote:Deep-sea miners see Tesla growth as signal to pluck cobalt Nathanial Gronewold, E&E News reporter • Climatewire: Monday, January 6, 2020

The opening of Tesla Inc.'s massive manufacturing plant in China brings deep-seabed mining closer to reality,
industry scientists say.

Several private and government-owned companies are proposing to scour vast areas of remote ocean seafloor to extract high concentrations of nickel, manganese, rare earth metals and especially cobalt. A U.N. agency is close to finalizing rules for extracting metals from international waters.

Cobalt is a critical component for safety; it prevents batteries from overheating and catching fire. Batteries can be manufactured without cobalt but must be fitted with cooling systems, which adds complexity and detracts from battery function and efficiency.

Word that Tesla wants to build 1,000 cars a week in China, the world's largest EV market, is fueling the aspirations of companies like DeepGreen Metals and Ocean Minerals LLC, which plan to extract huge quantities of cobalt from the ocean floor
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/ca ... tic-cells/
Tesla to use CATL's cobalt-free batteries in China-made cars

Tesla have actually ordered these batteries...

Batteries get hot, cobalt doesn't keep them running cool any more than any other material...

Yes yes you keep saying about new technology potentially having the same impact or greater than existing Tech... Really nothing to do with your original article though...

Tell me what would you rather have this winter a electric heater or a Kero Heater ?
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Chuck »

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:Deep-sea miners see Tesla growth as signal to pluck cobalt Nathanial Gronewold, E&E News reporter • Climatewire: Monday, January 6, 2020

The opening of Tesla Inc.'s massive manufacturing plant in China brings deep-seabed mining closer to reality,
industry scientists say.

Several private and government-owned companies are proposing to scour vast areas of remote ocean seafloor to extract high concentrations of nickel, manganese, rare earth metals and especially cobalt. A U.N. agency is close to finalizing rules for extracting metals from international waters.

Cobalt is a critical component for safety; it prevents batteries from overheating and catching fire. Batteries can be manufactured without cobalt but must be fitted with cooling systems, which adds complexity and detracts from battery function and efficiency.

Word that Tesla wants to build 1,000 cars a week in China, the world's largest EV market, is fueling the aspirations of companies like DeepGreen Metals and Ocean Minerals LLC, which plan to extract huge quantities of cobalt from the ocean floor
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/ca ... tic-cells/
Tesla to use CATL's cobalt-free batteries in China-made cars

Tesla have actually ordered these batteries...

Batteries get hot, cobalt doesn't keep them running cool any more than any other material...

Yes yes you keep saying about new technology potentially having the same impact or greater than existing Tech... Really nothing to do with your original article though...

Tell me what would you rather have this winter a electric heater or a Kero Heater ?
U finally got the message that I was trying to impart!

It must be my poor grammatically skills that I need too address!
That is the reason why I joined this site, to overcome my fear of writing a sentence.

It appears that I have greater concern about the impact of perceived environmental solutions than most of the posters!

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Chuck wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:Deep-sea miners see Tesla growth as signal to pluck cobalt Nathanial Gronewold, E&E News reporter • Climatewire: Monday, January 6, 2020

The opening of Tesla Inc.'s massive manufacturing plant in China brings deep-seabed mining closer to reality,
industry scientists say.

Several private and government-owned companies are proposing to scour vast areas of remote ocean seafloor to extract high concentrations of nickel, manganese, rare earth metals and especially cobalt. A U.N. agency is close to finalizing rules for extracting metals from international waters.

Cobalt is a critical component for safety; it prevents batteries from overheating and catching fire. Batteries can be manufactured without cobalt but must be fitted with cooling systems, which adds complexity and detracts from battery function and efficiency.

Word that Tesla wants to build 1,000 cars a week in China, the world's largest EV market, is fueling the aspirations of companies like DeepGreen Metals and Ocean Minerals LLC, which plan to extract huge quantities of cobalt from the ocean floor
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/ca ... tic-cells/
Tesla to use CATL's cobalt-free batteries in China-made cars

Tesla have actually ordered these batteries...

Batteries get hot, cobalt doesn't keep them running cool any more than any other material...

Yes yes you keep saying about new technology potentially having the same impact or greater than existing Tech... Really nothing to do with your original article though...

Tell me what would you rather have this winter a electric heater or a Kero Heater ?
U finally got the message that I was trying to impart!

It must be my poor grammatically skills that I need too address!
That is the reason why I joined this site, to overcome my fear of writing a sentence.

It appears that I have greater concern about the impact of perceived environmental solutions than most of the posters!
No you need to find better articles to support your idea's.... If you only find articles that agree with your agendas without checking if they are correct or up to date, no one will look at your idea...

The first one was way out of date and not relevant any more (cobalt scare)
The second was a discovery and the authors assumption of what it means for the future (ocean minerals), so no real value....and out of date

Article bad....your comments automatically follow in the same vein ... :purple
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Chuck »

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:Deep-sea miners see Tesla growth as signal to pluck cobalt Nathanial Gronewold, E&E News reporter • Climatewire: Monday, January 6, 2020

The opening of Tesla Inc.'s massive manufacturing plant in China brings deep-seabed mining closer to reality,
industry scientists say.

Several private and government-owned companies are proposing to scour vast areas of remote ocean seafloor to extract high concentrations of nickel, manganese, rare earth metals and especially cobalt. A U.N. agency is close to finalizing rules for extracting metals from international waters.

Cobalt is a critical component for safety; it prevents batteries from overheating and catching fire. Batteries can be manufactured without cobalt but must be fitted with cooling systems, which adds complexity and detracts from battery function and efficiency.

Word that Tesla wants to build 1,000 cars a week in China, the world's largest EV market, is fueling the aspirations of companies like DeepGreen Metals and Ocean Minerals LLC, which plan to extract huge quantities of cobalt from the ocean floor
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/ca ... tic-cells/
Tesla to use CATL's cobalt-free batteries in China-made cars

Tesla have actually ordered these batteries...

Batteries get hot, cobalt doesn't keep them running cool any more than any other material...

Yes yes you keep saying about new technology potentially having the same impact or greater than existing Tech... Really nothing to do with your original article though...

Tell me what would you rather have this winter a electric heater or a Kero Heater ?
U finally got the message that I was trying to impart!

It must be my poor grammatically skills that I need too address!
That is the reason why I joined this site, to overcome my fear of writing a sentence.

It appears that I have greater concern about the impact of perceived environmental solutions than most of the posters!
No you need to find better articles to support your idea's.... If you only find articles that agree with your agendas without checking if they are correct or up to date, no one will look at your idea...

The first one was way out of date and not relevant any more (cobalt scare)
The second was a discovery and the authors assumption of what it means for the future (ocean minerals), so no real value....and out of date

Article bad....your comments automatically follow in the same vein ... :purple
The website has to many blinkered posters on the positve outcome of the benefits of batteries.

There is nothing wrong with this view as long ur aware of the possible damage done to environment to make these batteries.
The environmental history should have taught us of the short term misplaced benefits of what damage may arise in the future.

U seem to lack any forward thinking whilst the UN is considering the future implications - to u even this years article is out of date.
I have no idea how old the articles are as you refuse to put up links...
In the previous posts I showed where they are wrong or out of date....
I'm not ignoring anything... Battery production is vey clean and safe and recyclable, only Cobalt is a human problem because of conditions where it is mined in the Congo...
You haven't shown one thing to suggest batteries are bad for the environment...
You did show a article that must be old saying they are running out of resources though.... :purple

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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But cobalt is being phased out!

I learned about the mineral nodules on the sea floor studying geology in the late 1960s! Obviously people think about mining that wealth, but the deep sea is no easy place to do anything.
"
And cobalt is being phased out.

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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Chuck »

HBS Guy wrote:But cobalt is being phased out!

I learned about the mineral nodules on the sea floor studying geology in the late 1960s! Obviously people think about mining that wealth, but the deep sea is no easy place to do anything.
"
And cobalt is being phased out.
U maybe interested in the remote controlled prototype submerged mining machine called Apollo II, being trailed off the coast of Spain.

The UN is putting in place controls to regulated future mining for rare metals and including metals used in battery manufacturerimg.

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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by HBS Guy »

Trailled or trialled?

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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Chuck »

HBS Guy wrote:Trailled or trialled?
How petty and childish of a supposedly educated person!

U could simply said, that u weren’t interested at the trial!

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Wasn’t me fucked up the spelling.

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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I did come across an article which mentioned that Tesla and Panasonic is trying to phase out cobalt.

There is no guarantee that they may unknowingly source some cobalt from Deep Sea miners!

The other article that I posted doesn’t infer that Tesla will be the only customer for cobalt, this company and other players will also take the opportunities that is presented by the EV market, in providing batteries for their product.

It was simply the reader who assumed that Tesla was the only market, when actually it was a simply an example by this company as an opportunity that they foresee!


The following has been abbreviated by me and is 9 mths old - it is from The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... l-frontier

The world’s oceans are facing a “new industrial frontier” from a fledgling deep-sea mining industry as companies line up to extract metals and minerals from some of the most important ecosystems on the planet, a report has found.

The study by Greenpeace revealed that although no mining had started on the ocean floor, 29 exploration licences had been issued covering an area five times bigger than the UK. Environmentalists said the proposed mining would threaten not only crucial ecosystems but the global fight against climate breakdown.

The licences, issued by a United Nations body, the International Seabed Authority, have been granted to a handful of countries that sponsor private companies. They cover vast areas of the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans, totalling 1.3m sq km (500,000 sq miles).

The industry has said deep-sea mining is essential to extract the materials needed for a transition to a green economy by supplying raw materials for key technologies including batteries, computers and phones. Its advocates say deep-sea mining is less harmful to the environment and workers than most existing mineral and mining operations.

However, the report said: “The deep-sea mining industry presents its development as essential for a low-carbon future, yet this claim is not substantiated by actors in the renewable energy, electric vehicle or battery sectors. Such arguments ignore calls for a move from the endless exploitation of resources to a transformational and circular economy.”

The report said the UK government held licences to exploit more of the international seabed than any government apart from China. It accused ministers of positioning the government as a leader on marine protection while simultaneously investing in deep-sea mining.

A government spokesperson said: “The UK continues to press for the highest international environmental standards, including on deep sea mineral extraction. We have sponsored two exploration licences, which allows scientific marine research to fully understand the effects of deep sea mining and we will not issue a single exploitation licence without a full assessment of the environmental impact.”

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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SO mining companies want to mine the ocean and using renewables as a excuse.. The actual companies making renewables though say they don't need it.... Nothing new there.....
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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I doubt much will come of it. Manganese nodules were mined in the waters to our north—but that is continental shelf not deep ocean waters (this is all from the late 1960s, I may (likely) have misremembered something.)

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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HBS Guy wrote:
15 Apr 2020, 19:42
I doubt much will come of it. Manganese nodules were mined in the waters to our north—but that is continental shelf not deep ocean waters (this is all from the late 1960s, I may (likely) have misremembered something.)
Hopefully not much will come of it!
When companies see opportunities, perseverance and badgering of govt. officials will achieve their desired outcome.

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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Bongalong »

Chuck wrote:
16 Apr 2020, 20:23
HBS Guy wrote:
15 Apr 2020, 19:42
I doubt much will come of it. Manganese nodules were mined in the waters to our north—but that is continental shelf not deep ocean waters (this is all from the late 1960s, I may (likely) have misremembered something.)
Hopefully not much will come of it!
When companies see opportunities, perseverance and badgering of govt. officials will achieve their desired outcome.
Lol, you mean like "Lobbying"? Where the Fu do they do that shifty Chucky? 😅
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Re: Renewable energy developments

Post by Chuck »

Currently, it appears that they’re making inroads with their lobbying, as the UN is/has drafted controls and regulations.

You cannot assume that all EV manufacturers will abide by not sourcing batteries made from minerals scoured from the oceans.

There are other markets besides EV!

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Re: Renewable energy developments

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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-covid-19

Global oil prices have slumped further after the world’s energy watchdog warned that the biggest production cuts in history will fail to offset the deepest fall in demand in 25 years.
Data commissioned by the Guardian this month shows that the coronavirus is likely to cut billions of barrels of oil, trillions of cubic metres of gas and millions of tonnes of coal from the global energy system and erase 2.5bn tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions from the fossil fuel industry.
This would be the biggest drop in CO2 emissions on record, in a single year eclipsing the carbon slumps triggered by the largest recessions of the last 50 years combined.
The IEA’s findings underline fears among oil traders that the deal hammered out between Opec and its allies over the Easter weekend would prove “too little, too late” to prevent further oil price falls.
The plunging oil market price has forced oil rigs producing more than a million barrels a day to shut and wiped billions from the market value of the world’s biggest oil companies.



US oil prices turned negative for the first time on record on Monday as North America’s oil producers run out of space to store an unprecedented oversupply of crude left by the coronavirus crisis.
The price of US crude oil collapsed by more than 105% to -$2 per barrel in a matter of hours, forcing oil producers to pay buyers to take the glut of crude which they cannot store, as rising stockpiles of crude threaten to overwhelm oil storage facilities.
The crash in demand caused by the Covid-19 pandemic also forced Canada’s benchmark oil price to plunge into negative territory for the first time on Monday.


The proof is there, pollution is disappearing out of our skies. The sooner we get stop Burning fossil fuels for heat and energy the better our land and bodies will be... :purple
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Isn't it curious that the two Australian states with the most ambitious renewable energy policies - Tasmania and South Australia - have Liberal governments, and no coal industry :purple
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Re: Renewable energy developments

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Trump's ploy to boost the U.S. steel industry with tariffs has failed, U.S. steel now sells for less than before Trump took office. Trump's ploy to boost the U.S. manufacturing industry has failed, his tariffs drove up the cost of imported electronic components used in products assembled in the U.S.. Trump's ploy to boost the U.S. coal industry has failed, and now his ploy to boost the U.S. oil industry is backfiring. Everything Trump touches, he makes worst. Ironically, Trump's meddling has done more damage to U.S. fossil fuel industries than any green-initiatives the Democrats have ever introduced. :bike
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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