Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Aussie » 08 Apr 2019, 16:52

SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:Seth:

And yes, our murder rate is higher than yours is. But your rate of murder by knifing and beating is by far higher than ours is. I'm not saying that one form of murder is better than the other. But it points to the fact that if someone is determined to commit murder, they will use other means in the absence of guns.


True, but tell me.....how many school kids or teenagers have been mass slaughtered by some ONE dickhead using a knife?


I don't know, Aussie. Not very many. Here are some excerpts from the linked article....

On July 22–23, 2015, five members of the Bever family were murdered in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. A medical examiner determined that the common cause of death was "multiple sharp force injuries", in other words stabbed to death…

The Gage Park stabbings refers to the murders of six members of the Martinez family in the Gage Park neighborhood of Chicago. Five of the victims were stabbed to death, and the sixth victim was shot.

The Maksim Gelman stabbing spree was a 28-hour killing spree lasting from February 11 to 12, 2011, in New York City, which involved the killing of four people and the wounding of five others.

In 2014, in the Cairns suburb of Manoora in Australia,eight children were found dead. The victims were aged between 18 months and 14 years. The bodies, with stab wounds, were discovered by the children's 20-year-old brother.

Also in 2014. Matthew de Grood, stabbed five young adults to death at a house party in the Brentwood neighbourhood of Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

The June 2017 London Bridge attack was an Islamic terrorist attack in London, United Kingdom. A van left the road and struck a number of pedestrians on London Bridge. After the van crashed, its three occupants ran to the nearby Borough Market area and began stabbing people in and around restaurants and pubs. Eight people were killed and 48 were injured, including four unarmed police officers who attempted to stop the assailants. (almost impossible to even get a illegal gun in England, note the 4 unarmed police officers who died).

On 3 August 2016, a mass stabbing occurred in Russell Square, London. Six people were stabbed, one fatally, before a suspect, identified as Zakaria Bulhan, was apprehended by police.

The Akihabara massacre was an incident of mass murder that took place in 2008, in Sotokanda, Tokyo, Japan. A man drove into a crowd with a truck, killing three people and injuring two; he then stabbed at least 12 people using a dagger killing four people and injuring eight.

The Osaka school massacre took place on June 8, 2001, at Ikeda Elementary School, an elite primary school affiliated with Osaka Kyoiku University in Osaka Prefecture, Japan. 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.

The Sagamihara stabbings were committed on 26 July 2016 in Midori Ward, Sagamihara, Kanagawa, Japan. 19 people were killed and 26 others were injured, 13 severely, at a care home for disabled people.

The Shimonoseki Station massacre took place on September 29, 1999, when Yasuaki Uwabe, then aged 35, drove a car into the Shimonoseki Station. Exiting the car, he proceeded to stab passers-by at random until apprehended at the scene. As a result of his actions, five people were killed and 10 others were injured.

In China - Yan Yanming entered a dormitory at the Ruzhou Number Two High School in Ruzhou, China on November 26, 2004, with a knife and attacked twelve boys, killing nine of them.


https://www.quora.com/How-many-mass-mur ... nd-no-guns


Oh come on. How many of those victims were asleep (or otherwise disabled) at the time of the fatal knife attack?
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby johnsmith » 08 Apr 2019, 18:55

Aussie wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:Seth:

And yes, our murder rate is higher than yours is. But your rate of murder by knifing and beating is by far higher than ours is. I'm not saying that one form of murder is better than the other. But it points to the fact that if someone is determined to commit murder, they will use other means in the absence of guns.


True, but tell me.....how many school kids or teenagers have been mass slaughtered by some ONE dickhead using a knife?


I don't know, Aussie. Not very many. Here are some excerpts from the linked article....

On July 22–23, 2015, five members of the Bever family were murdered in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. A medical examiner determined that the common cause of death was "multiple sharp force injuries", in other words stabbed to death…

The Gage Park stabbings refers to the murders of six members of the Martinez family in the Gage Park neighborhood of Chicago. Five of the victims were stabbed to death, and the sixth victim was shot.

The Maksim Gelman stabbing spree was a 28-hour killing spree lasting from February 11 to 12, 2011, in New York City, which involved the killing of four people and the wounding of five others.

In 2014, in the Cairns suburb of Manoora in Australia,eight children were found dead. The victims were aged between 18 months and 14 years. The bodies, with stab wounds, were discovered by the children's 20-year-old brother.

Also in 2014. Matthew de Grood, stabbed five young adults to death at a house party in the Brentwood neighbourhood of Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

The June 2017 London Bridge attack was an Islamic terrorist attack in London, United Kingdom. A van left the road and struck a number of pedestrians on London Bridge. After the van crashed, its three occupants ran to the nearby Borough Market area and began stabbing people in and around restaurants and pubs. Eight people were killed and 48 were injured, including four unarmed police officers who attempted to stop the assailants. (almost impossible to even get a illegal gun in England, note the 4 unarmed police officers who died).

On 3 August 2016, a mass stabbing occurred in Russell Square, London. Six people were stabbed, one fatally, before a suspect, identified as Zakaria Bulhan, was apprehended by police.

The Akihabara massacre was an incident of mass murder that took place in 2008, in Sotokanda, Tokyo, Japan. A man drove into a crowd with a truck, killing three people and injuring two; he then stabbed at least 12 people using a dagger killing four people and injuring eight.

The Osaka school massacre took place on June 8, 2001, at Ikeda Elementary School, an elite primary school affiliated with Osaka Kyoiku University in Osaka Prefecture, Japan. 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.

The Sagamihara stabbings were committed on 26 July 2016 in Midori Ward, Sagamihara, Kanagawa, Japan. 19 people were killed and 26 others were injured, 13 severely, at a care home for disabled people.

The Shimonoseki Station massacre took place on September 29, 1999, when Yasuaki Uwabe, then aged 35, drove a car into the Shimonoseki Station. Exiting the car, he proceeded to stab passers-by at random until apprehended at the scene. As a result of his actions, five people were killed and 10 others were injured.

In China - Yan Yanming entered a dormitory at the Ruzhou Number Two High School in Ruzhou, China on November 26, 2004, with a knife and attacked twelve boys, killing nine of them.


https://www.quora.com/How-many-mass-mur ... nd-no-guns


Oh come on. How many of those victims were asleep (or otherwise disabled) at the time of the fatal knife attack?



bah ... what's he got? 50 dead over how many years? How many died from guns over that same period? :oops
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby SethBullock » 09 Apr 2019, 00:31

Guys ... I think you're missing the point.

Granted, it is easier to do a mass murder with a gun than using some other method. We can agree with that. And since it's easier, there are more mass murders in the U.S. with guns than with other methods.

But as I pointed out, we in the U.S. have a societal problem that, if fixed, would bring our murder rate down to a level about 1-1.5 above yours. And this in a country where gun ownership is legal and millions of people own them.

I have searched, but I cannot find any data on the 2018 murder rate in the U.S. It just isn't available yet. The FBI won't release those numbers until September. What I did find, however, were numerous articles about a falling murder rate in our cities and nationally. Our murder rate has declined 49% since 1993. I think that with the country at almost full employment, we may be down in the 4's somewhere for 2018 when the stats are available. And if we didn't have that one demographic whose murder rate is out of whack, we could be in the 2's. My state's murder rate fluctuates from year to year from 2.0-2.5.

How can Oregon have a murder rate of 2.0 with so many people having guns and with people being allowed to carry concealed handguns, while Australia has a 1.3 murder rate? If I were an Australian, I would almost find that disturbing. Maybe I would wonder what's wrong with Australia.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 08:46

SethBullock wrote:Guys ... I think you're missing the point.



No Seth, you're missing the point.

Americans think that guns make them safer, but all the evidence says the exact opposite.

"Gun ownership decreases safety — on both an individual and collective level."
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 08:52

SethBullock wrote:
But as I pointed out, we in the U.S. have a societal problem that, if fixed, would bring our murder rate down to a level about 1-1.5 above yours.


Australia has societal problems too.

If fixed, our murder rate would be way, way below yours.

However, neither country have fixed their problems so we can only look at the facts as they are today: despite the proliferation of guns in the US, it's citizens are not safer.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Dax » 09 Apr 2019, 09:42

SethBullock wrote:Guys ... I think you're missing the point.

Granted, it is easier to do a mass murder with a gun than using some other method. We can agree with that. And since it's easier, there are more mass murders in the U.S. with guns than with other methods.

But as I pointed out, we in the U.S. have a societal problem that, if fixed, would bring our murder rate down to a level about 1-1.5 above yours. And this in a country where gun ownership is legal and millions of people own them.

I have searched, but I cannot find any data on the 2018 murder rate in the U.S. It just isn't available yet. The FBI won't release those numbers until September. What I did find, however, were numerous articles about a falling murder rate in our cities and nationally. Our murder rate has declined 49% since 1993. I think that with the country at almost full employment, we may be down in the 4's somewhere for 2018 when the stats are available. And if we didn't have that one demographic whose murder rate is out of whack, we could be in the 2's. My state's murder rate fluctuates from year to year from 2.0-2.5.

How can Oregon have a murder rate of 2.0 with so many people having guns and with people being allowed to carry concealed handguns, while Australia has a 1.3 murder rate? If I were an Australian, I would almost find that disturbing. Maybe I would wonder what's wrong with Australia.


The thread is abut guns, not murder and here are a couple of links giving gun deaths in the USA in 2017, with a little quote and there were more in 2018. Maybe they have closed the definition of gun death even more, or withholding the true facts to try to cover the true reality. But they are out there.

"There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017, up by more than 1,000 from the year before. Nearly two-thirds were suicides. It was the largest yearly total on record in the C.D.C.’s electronic database, which goes back 50 years, and reflects the sheer number of lives lost.

When adjusted for population size, the rate of gun deaths in 2017 also increased slightly to 12 deaths for every 100,000 people, up from 11.8 per 100,000 in 2016. By this measure, last year had the highest rate of firearm deaths since the mid-1990s, the data showed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html

"Gun deaths in US rise to highest level in 20 years, data shows"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... s-cdc-2017

More guns make us safer, bizarre.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 09:54

Dax wrote:More guns make us safer, bizarre.


It's a demonstrable lie.

They might feel safer, but they aren't. Far from it, in fact.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Texan » 09 Apr 2019, 10:40

With or without guns, terrorists are going to terrorist.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-man ... nd-driving
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby hatty » 09 Apr 2019, 11:49

Texan wrote:With or without guns, terrorists are going to terrorist.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-man ... nd-driving


and guns make it a lot fucking easier to terrorist

hope those 39,000 bodies were worth it. in any case

ask the emo fuckhead who shot all those toddlers at sandy hook

even the good dude with an AR-15 ain't going to stop a truck in a crowd

it's a bullshit excuse because nothing beats how hard they get with a weapon so close to their genitalia
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:10

SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby hatty » 09 Apr 2019, 13:16

terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 13:17

hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people


Seth seems reluctant to say.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby SethBullock » 09 Apr 2019, 13:19

Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 13:24

SethBullock wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.


It's a piss poor argument, Seth.

"If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia."

If it wasn't for the actions of the people in our country who commit all of all murders, our murder rate would be zero.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:33

hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people

You should get an education mate!
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:34

greggerypeccary wrote:
hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people


Seth seems reluctant to say.

Lol, we all know the answer!
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby hatty » 09 Apr 2019, 13:35

SethBullock wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.


haha....... i've got a novel idea.....

maybe don't make it so easy for black males (6%) ........ or any old dick head to to get hold of firearms

/close thread
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:35

SethBullock wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.

There are some shocking numbers making this reality very tough to fathom for all.

Fear is absolutely real in certain neighbourhoods.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:37

hatty wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.


haha....... i've got a novel idea.....

maybe don't make it so easy for black males (6%) ........ or any old dick head to to get hold of firearms

/close thread

Lol, hatty doesn't like discussions that don't go his way because he's a facist dictating idiot! :rofl
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby hatty » 09 Apr 2019, 13:37

Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people

You should get an education mate!


my masters degree in education (with excellence) says otherwise
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 13:40

hatty wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people

You should get an education mate!


my masters degree in education (with excellence) says otherwise

So how come you didn't know blacks are overwhelmingly responsible for gun murders in America? :rofl :rofl :c
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby greggerypeccary » 09 Apr 2019, 13:43

Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:
Texan wrote:Your problems happen when you are in a "gun free zone" and the criminals know it. Throw in a little alcohol or crowds of rowdy unarmed people with money and bad things happen in the chaos.


Everywhere in Australia is a gun free zone.

And, we have lots of drunk rowdy people.

Having said that:

Murder rate in Australia = 1.3 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).

Murder rate in the US = 5 (per year per 100,000 inhabitants).


If it wasn't for the actions of a 6% demographic in our country that commits half of all murders, our murder rate would be around 2.5, barely over your murder rate in gunless Australia.

What we can learn is that we have a "people" problem more than a gun problem, and we also learn that in a society without guns, people who are determined to commit murder will find a way to do it.

Who is that 6% demographic?


Black males, Bong.

There are some shocking numbers making this reality very tough to fathom for all.

Fear is absolutely real in certain neighbourhoods.


The colour of a murderer's skin is completely irrelevant (this isn't OzPol, you know).

What IS relevant is the fact that guns don't make Americans safer.
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby hatty » 09 Apr 2019, 13:52

Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people

You should get an education mate!


my masters degree in education (with excellence) says otherwise

So how come you didn't know blacks are overwhelmingly responsible for gun murders in America? :rofl :rofl :c


thanks for admitting i'm right

Guns...... and the harm they cause is what this fucking thread is about, and how americans can get hold of one so easily ........ not how tinted or neo nazi the fuck head who blows someones brains out is...... with the aforementioned firearm
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 14:00

greggerypeccary wrote:
The colour of a murderer's skin is completely irrelevant (this isn't OzPol, you know).

What IS relevant is the fact that guns don't make Americans safer.

Why do they record the colour of a gun murderers skin if it isn't relevant?
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Re: Get over it: Americans are allowed to have guns!

Postby Bongalong » 09 Apr 2019, 14:02

hatty wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
hatty wrote:terrorists and home invaders........ duh :roll

or maybe just poor or brown people

You should get an education mate!


my masters degree in education (with excellence) says otherwise

So how come you didn't know blacks are overwhelmingly responsible for gun murders in America? :rofl :rofl :c


thanks for admitting i'm right

Guns...... and the harm they cause is what this fucking thread is about, and how americans can get hold of one so easily ........ not how tinted or neo nazi the fuck head who blows someones brains out is...... with the aforementioned firearm

Why would they record a gun murderers skin colour if it wasn't relevent?

(Some masters degree you've got there buddy lol :rofl )
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