Gardening

For chatting about non-political topics.

Hot topic: The perils of exercise, Lapidary, food, gardening, brewing & Gallipoli/Anzac Day.

Special feature: WWIi Operation Manna/Chowhound.
.

Open to guest posting.

Moderator: johnsmith

Forum rules
The rules for this board are in the Charter of Moderation. Off Topic is for fairly serious discussion of things other than politics and current affair.

Re: Gardening

Postby Cracky » 26 Oct 2018, 12:06

dissilymordentroge wrote:If Adam or Eve were silly enough to bite into a raw quince they’d have eaten none of it. Raw quince produces a very nasty prickly sensation in the mouth which lingers for hours. Truly horrible.

Agreed.
"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." Bruce Lee
User avatar
Cracky
Jack Russell
 
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 Oct 2018, 02:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2018, 17:55

Nice to see you post, Cracky!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Cracky » 26 Oct 2018, 20:34

Thankee! :hlo
"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." Bruce Lee
User avatar
Cracky
Jack Russell
 
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 Oct 2018, 02:18
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 27 Oct 2018, 23:05

Rereading “Grow a little fruit tree” and decided to buy a few semi-dwarf eating/cooking and crab apples, plant them between the cider apple trees.

Root competition will keep all the trees small and manageable. More trees, better pollination—maybe ensure one at least late blossoming tree to help pollinates the one or two late blossoming cider apples. Unfortunately, Cox Orange Pippin is not available in semi-dwarf form—the M111 semi dwarfing rootstock grows deep and extensive enough to keep the tree upright without needing a permanent stake and can cope with clay soils, dwarf trees need much more pampering. Definitely MUCH better to buy semi-dwarf fruit trees and use bending of branches and stem and pruning for size in the summer equinox, around Christmass time in Australia. Stronger trees yet manageable size/amount of fruit harvested.

Order them in April next year, plant April 2020.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 30 Oct 2018, 00:16

Depending on what bedrock is beneath my 4' of clay masquerading as soil I should be able to reduce the pH of my alkaline soil somewhat.

One test I will do: buy some malt vinegar at the local shops and pour some onto some soil—if it fizzes it has calcium carbonate and pH will be practically impossible to shift. Looking at the geological map of Tassie—reckon more some igneous rock. Then some iron sulphate might do the trick with compost and mulch etc will keep it a bit lower than what it is at present. There are some little orchards like mine in the same soil so here is hoping. In fact, my next door neighbor to be has a row of trees on his block.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 30 Oct 2018, 01:35

Yeah, looking at a much more detailed map I doubt I have limestone as bedrock. Phew!

Acid test (pun not intended) will be adding vinegar to a small sample of soil next April, along with determining pH as accurately as I can.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Nov 2018, 15:03

I was a bit worried that I had added too much gypsum to my soil: guy that rotary hoed all the backpart spread 30 bags of gypsum, then I added another bag of gypsum where the cider trees will go. Need not have worried! Will be applying gypsum for a while yet! Any excess magnesium will be bound to some of the gypsum and gradually flushed from the soil.

To acidify my soil a bit I will add iron sulphate. Not only will this acidify the soil some but makes lots of iron available. Iron and boron are less accessible in alkaline soils. So some boron will be added to the planting holes somehow. I have calculated how much iron sulphate to add, converting those quirky units the yanks still use, pounds and square feet, so quaint :bgrin :bgrin :bgrin

One of the most superb eating apples is the Cox Orange Pippin. My nursery only supplies this on dwarfing rootstock: no way, my soil (for want of a better word) really needs the M111 semi dwarfing rootstock. Sent the nursery an email—can you do me a Cox on M111 rootstock? Have seen another nursery lists the Cox and that would be semi dwarfing rootstock. If I have time next April I will go visit them.

Have made a list—preliminary of course, will likely change—of some semidwarf desert apples to get:

Bramley’s Seedling—premier UK cooking apple

Court Pendu Plat—brought to Europe by the Romans 1500 years ago, how could I not get it? Besides, late apple so stores well and help pollinate late blossoming cider apple trees

Granny Smith—eating, cooking, add some acidity to a cider that needs it. Pick in June.

Huonville crab apple—a chance seedling. Palm sized red skinned, red fleshed and red juiced crabs, good to eat, cook or use in cider

McIntosh—eating apple. Thank god the designer or signwriter got the name wrong and so my computer is a Macintosh not a McIntosh. Canadian.

Sturmer—all rounder.

Will want another crab apple or two:

John Downie—https://www.woodbridgefruittrees.com.au/crab-apples/98-john-downie.html great for apple pectin jelly.
Could plant a decorative (never or rarely fruits) crab somewhere, look nice and still helps pollinate all my apple trees.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby johnsmith » 04 Nov 2018, 19:55

johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:You NEED to take your soil pH. That is bedrock stuff. Buy a kit, buy a cheap pH meter buy both. If it is acid (pH under 7) you need lime, if it is alkaline (pH > 7) no lime, use gypsum. Spread some potassium sulphate, more if you have alkaline soil.

Dig in lots of organic matter, compost and cow or sheep poop. Spread mulch to stop the sun baking your soil. Gardening 101.



I filled my garden bed with bags of soil specifically for tomatoes and vege's. Bed is about 4 inches deep, with plenty of drainage since it sits atop a retaining wall.

Image



completed the next section of my vege patch today. Swapped from bags of soil, this time I took the ute to a landscape supplier and got a half ton of organic soil (has organic compost mixed in with it) .. I got the kids to do the hard work, shoveling it into a wheelbarrow ( in 30degree heat ... the little troopers did a great job) spread it and added some blood and bone, then planted cos lettuce, butterhead lettuce, eggplant, snow peas, silverbeet, spring onion and cucumber.

The wife also bought an assortment of packets of seeds, but she must have confused our place for the acerage up the road. :roll
FD.
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
User avatar
johnsmith
Mastodon
 
Posts: 6882
Joined: 25 Sep 2017, 22:39
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Nov 2018, 20:42

The wife also bought an assortment of packets of seeds, but she must have confused our place for the acerage up the road. :roll




:rofl
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 04 Nov 2018, 23:41

HBS Guy wrote:I was a bit worried that I had added too much gypsum to my soil: guy that rotary hoed all the backpart spread 30 bags of gypsum, then I added another bag of gypsum where the cider trees will go. Need not have worried! Will be applying gypsum for a while yet! Any excess magnesium will be bound to some of the gypsum and gradually flushed from the soil.

To acidify my soil a bit I will add iron sulphate. Not only will this acidify the soil some but makes lots of iron available. Iron and boron are less accessible in alkaline soils. So some boron will be added to the planting holes somehow. I have calculated how much iron sulphate to add, converting those quirky units the yanks still use, pounds and square feet, so quaint :bgrin :bgrin :bgrin

One of the most superb eating apples is the Cox Orange Pippin. My nursery only supplies this on dwarfing rootstock: no way, my soil (for want of a better word) really needs the M111 semi dwarfing rootstock. Sent the nursery an email—can you do me a Cox on M111 rootstock? Have seen another nursery lists the Cox and that would be semi dwarfing rootstock. If I have time next April I will go visit them.

Have made a list—preliminary of course, will likely change—of some semidwarf desert apples to get:

Bramley’s Seedling—premier UK cooking apple

Court Pendu Plat—brought to Europe by the Romans 1500 years ago, how could I not get it? Besides, late apple so stores well and help pollinate late blossoming cider apple trees

Granny Smith—eating, cooking, add some acidity to a cider that needs it. Pick in June.

Huonville crab apple—a chance seedling. Palm sized red skinned, red fleshed and red juiced crabs, good to eat, cook or use in cider

McIntosh—eating apple. Thank god the designer or signwriter got the name wrong and so my computer is a Macintosh not a McIntosh. Canadian.

Sturmer—all rounder.

Will want another crab apple or two:

John Downie—https://www.woodbridgefruittrees.com.au/crab-apples/98-john-downie.html great for apple pectin jelly.
Could plant a decorative (never or rarely fruits) crab somewhere, look nice and still helps pollinate all my apple trees.



you know a lot more about gardening than I do

Good luck with it all
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 05 Nov 2018, 06:53

My garden in Tassie has difficult soil and I never grew cherry trees before, etc, so been reading.

If you want to protect the trees in your butterfly forest there is a spray you make up with unpasteurised neem oil, fish hydrolysate and compost tea. Adding some mycorrhizal fungi culture would be good too.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 05 Nov 2018, 13:00

Your gardening will go MUCH better than our forest.

A failure rate is normal on our gardens.
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 05 Nov 2018, 16:02

I am sure some of my trees will cark it, just trying to load the odds in my favor.

Some things, like spreading pine chips, are wrong but I am doing it anyway for dropping the pH of my soil. Once the trees are planted I will have hardwood chips spread. Do that twice a year, spread some iron sulphate and a bit pot. sulphate and some fine (colloidal) sulphur to counteract the alkalinity of the hardwood chips. Will try and get the hardwood chips cheap—any electricity workers trimming trees under power lines, carton of beer for a truckload of chips sounds good to me!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 06 Nov 2018, 11:35

Ordered a booklet on Gardening in Clay Soil.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby johnsmith » 06 Nov 2018, 14:57

damn ... the sun is killing my new plants. :mad
FD.
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
User avatar
johnsmith
Mastodon
 
Posts: 6882
Joined: 25 Sep 2017, 22:39
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 08 Nov 2018, 08:56

johnsmith wrote:damn ... the sun is killing my new plants. :mad


Drat, yes, the sun here in QLD can kill plants in 1 day.
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby MonkSIPPING » 08 Nov 2018, 13:17

At night, piss on the plants.

Failing that, spray Charlie Carp (quick nitrogen) and Seasol seaweed extract (plant tonic) late afternoon.
MonkSIPPING
 

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Nov 2018, 16:58

Been reading “Perry Pears” of which the tree nursery I use stocks three (Gin, Moorcroft and Yellow Huffcap) but there are two more varieties in Australia but, dammit, not in Tasmania: Green Horse (aka Horse Pear(!) White Horse, White Longland. . .) and Red Longdon.

Pears have a non-fermentable sugar called sorbitol (weird, sugar names end in -ose, sucrose, glucose etc. -ol is the ending for an alcohol but it is perry pears we are talking about so, just accept it. So perries a trifle sweeter and more full bodied than ciders.

One other thing about sorbitol: it is a mild laxative. Some perry pears are called {something} Lightning, in and out like lightning. Others must have a lot of sugar that turns into alcohol: Merrylegs and Muddlehead :rofl
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Nov 2018, 19:05

OK, after lot of agonising and sketching etc have gone for the simple.

My six cherry trees will go into row 5 planted 765mm apart (30" for those still using those quaint units :bgrin ) Root competition will help keep the trees small. Row 4 and the rest of row 5 will get perry pears.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 15 Nov 2018, 19:58

HBS Guy wrote:OK, after lot of agonising and sketching etc have gone for the simple.

My six cherry trees will go into row 5 planted 765mm apart (30" for those still using those quaint units :bgrin ) Root competition will help keep the trees small. Row 4 and the rest of row 5 will get perry pears.



A 'lot of agonising and sketching' is vital.
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Nov 2018, 21:32

Yeah. Was playing around, as you may have read, with two triangles of cherry trees and I did work the geometry out and all that. Decided too much fuss and a simple line fits better than something more fiddly with the pattern of rows and deep ripping done to my block. Easier to net and spray etc as well and will make a great sight when in bloom!

Been thinking about eating apples as well, will get some semi dwarf ones to plant in between the cider apples and a crab apple or two, for fruit (pectin jelly) for cider (tart apples etc) and for cooking (some are good for all three.) Especially a couple late–blossoming apples, help pollinate the late-blooming Brown Snout cider apple etc.

Still got two cider apple trees I no longer want. Use them to try grafting! Another skill to learn! But worry about that a bit later!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 16 Nov 2018, 03:59

HBS Guy wrote:Yeah. Was playing around, as you may have read, with two triangles of cherry trees and I did work the geometry out and all that. Decided too much fuss and a simple line fits better than something more fiddly with the pattern of rows and deep ripping done to my block. Easier to net and spray etc as well and will make a great sight when in bloom!

Been thinking about eating apples as well, will get some semi dwarf ones to plant in between the cider apples and a crab apple or two, for fruit (pectin jelly) for cider (tart apples etc) and for cooking (some are good for all three.) Especially a couple late–blossoming apples, help pollinate the late-blooming Brown Snout cider apple etc.

Still got two cider apple trees I no longer want. Use them to try grafting! Another skill to learn! But worry about that a bit later!


good work to try ALL possibilities on paper before touching a spade.
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Nov 2018, 08:26

Yup, been a journey. The cider apples have been fixed for a while apart from swapping the position of the Improved Foxwhelp and Sweet Coppin to keep the very bittersharp Foxwhelp separate from the bittersharp Breakwell’s Seedling apples.

Reading just how bloody BIG trees on semi dwarfing rootstock can grow threw a spanner in the works! But bending and summer pruning should keep things under control. VERY bad info re tree size on the nursery website!

Thinking of adding another bittersharp or two. No hurry for anymore trees. Will be flat out planting 16 trees in April. Might fly in December next year, keep an eye on the trees, do some summer pruning and do some foliar and soil spraying, check irrigation system etc. Maybe another long visit in April 2020 when can prepare some more planting sites and order trees to plant April 2021. By then I might be living in Tasmania even if not yet in my house. In fact, could pay someone, the guy that slashes my block say, to plant trees for me. He will probably stuff up a bit here and there but this long distance gardening is the pits!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Gardening

Postby Sprintcyclist » 16 Nov 2018, 08:29

HBS Guy wrote:Yup, been a journey. The cider apples have been fixed for a while apart from swapping the position of the Improved Foxwhelp and Sweet Coppin to keep the very bittersharp Foxwhelp separate from the bittersharp Breakwell’s Seedling apples.

Reading just how bloody BIG trees on semi dwarfing rootstock can grow threw a spanner in the works! But bending and summer pruning should keep things under control. VERY bad info re tree size on the nursery website!

Thinking of adding another bittersharp or two. No hurry for anymore trees. Will be flat out planting 16 trees in April. Might fly in December next year, keep an eye on the trees, do some summer pruning and do some foliar and soil spraying, check irrigation system etc. Maybe another long visit in April 2020 when can prepare some more planting sites and order trees to plant April 2021. By then I might be living in Tasmania even if not yet in my house. In fact, could pay someone, the guy that slashes my block say, to plant trees for me. He will probably stuff up a bit here and there but this long distance gardening is the pits!


' ........ could pay someone, the guy that slashes my block say, to plant trees for me ....... '

HHmmm, that idea certainly merits some consideration.
Sprintcyclist
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 16 Jul 2018, 08:14
spamone: Animal

Re: Gardening

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Nov 2018, 09:23

Yeah. $500 to put me and my car on the ferry, two tanks of petrol each way to and from Melbourne, $85/night B&B accommodation etc. Plus cost of whatever I need to buy for the garden, food for me and dog etc. Arranging someone to look after Mum—and that has occasioned huge emotional drama for which I will find it hard to forgive my sister.
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 50015
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

PreviousNext

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest