The Trump mural and the detained children

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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby mothra » 30 Jun 2018, 22:11

johnsmith wrote:this would be hilarious if the implications weren't so scary.

And the idiots think clinton sending emails is a security issue.


Donald Trump 'spoke from Air Force One to prank caller for almost four minutes, didn't realise'

A podcaster says he spoke on the phone to US President Donald Trump on Air Force One for almost four minutes by pretending to be a Democratic senator — and the President did not realise.

A voice purportedly belonging to Mr Trump discussed topics including immigration in the phone call with John "Stuttering John" Melendez, who pretended to be Senator Bob Menendez.

The recording was included in an episode of Melendez's Stuttering John Podcast.

Melendez, a comedian known for his time on the Howard Stern Show, said he was first put through to Mr Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who asked him what he wanted to talk to the President about.

After he told him he wanted to discuss immigration, Melendez said Mr Kushner responded: "OK, cool, I'll tell him."

He said he was "shocked" Mr Trump then returned his call — from his plane.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-30/donald-trump-prank-caller-says-he-talked-to-president/9927208


Classic. What an idiot.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 00:39

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:this would be hilarious if the implications weren't so scary.

And the idiots think clinton sending emails is a security issue.


Donald Trump 'spoke from Air Force One to prank caller for almost four minutes, didn't realise'

A podcaster says he spoke on the phone to US President Donald Trump on Air Force One for almost four minutes by pretending to be a Democratic senator — and the President did not realise.

A voice purportedly belonging to Mr Trump discussed topics including immigration in the phone call with John "Stuttering John" Melendez, who pretended to be Senator Bob Menendez.

The recording was included in an episode of Melendez's Stuttering John Podcast.

Melendez, a comedian known for his time on the Howard Stern Show, said he was first put through to Mr Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who asked him what he wanted to talk to the President about.

After he told him he wanted to discuss immigration, Melendez said Mr Kushner responded: "OK, cool, I'll tell him."

He said he was "shocked" Mr Trump then returned his call — from his plane.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-30/donald-trump-prank-caller-says-he-talked-to-president/9927208


Classic. What an idiot.


what makes it worse, the idiot he rang back from Air Force One. Surely his people check numbers or have the real phone numbers to senators?
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby mothra » 01 Jul 2018, 00:57

Reminds me of that classic from years ago about some up itself US war ship demanding a pissy little NZ command station remove itself from their course and getting all hot and bothered to the point of threatening fire ... only to find out it was a lighthouse.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 01:17

mothra wrote:
Auggie wrote:
mothra wrote:
Auggie wrote:
mothra wrote:
Auggie wrote:Trump is bloody crazy!

This all has, dare I say, a whiff of fascism.


What was your first clue?


The detained children.


You mean like we do?


Do we separate children from families? I’m not sure?


We tear families to pieces.

You know the Nauru man who killed himself last week? The second son of the same mother to do so? We took her 12 year old off her because she collapsed with grief.

Oh, and Dutton won't release her son's body for burial, for reasons known only to himself.


That is just herrendous.

You know, one observation I will make is that the right often intellectualised policies and actions. They accuse the left of being snowflakes, but the right rationalise and intellectualise everything, even evil.

You can’t be centrist when politics is polarising to either side, otherwise you start to rationalise evil.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby mothra » 01 Jul 2018, 01:28

Auggie wrote:You can’t be centrist when politics is polarising to either side, otherwise you start to rationalise evil.


Auggie i think you get too bogged down in definitions ... and your understanding of those definitions isn't always all the way threshed out.

As i understand it, there is social left and right; and economic left and right.

In today's clime, social leftism at the extreme is too compassionate. It is unrealistic.

Social rightism at the extreme is actual hate crimes and fascism.

Where's the centre point of that? You happy with it?

This is not 30 or 100 years ago. This is about the fact that we have a global humanitariam crisis (much of it created by us) that we, the wealthier countries of the world, have an obligation to attend to.

At least, that is the humanity that means something to me.
Last edited by mothra on 01 Jul 2018, 02:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby mothra » 01 Jul 2018, 01:39

And may i add, you mocked us all for "hugging each other in our Socialist utopia" for condemning this on another thread.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 08:57

one easy to abide by rule that I try to follow in these sorts of issues Auggie

'People before politics.'



anything else is just justification for your politics.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 09:58

Tens of thousands of protesters across America — moved by accounts of children separated from their parents at the US-Mexico border — have marched in major cities and tiny towns to demand President Donald Trump's administration reunite the divided families.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-01/thousands-march-across-us-against-trump-immigration-laws/9927956

:thumb
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 12:26

mothra wrote:
Auggie wrote:You can’t be centrist when politics is polarising to either side, otherwise you start to rationalise evil.


Auggie i think you get too bogged down in definitions ... and your understanding of those definitions isn't always all the way threshed out.

As i understand it, there is social left and right; and economic left and right.

In today's clime, social leftism at the extreme is too compassionate. It is unrealistic.

Social rightism at the extreme is actual hate crimes and fascism.

Where's the centre point of that? You happy with it?

This is not 30 or 100 years ago. This is about the fact that we have a global humanitariam crisis (much of it created by us) that we, the wealthier countries of the world, have an obligation to attend to.

At least, that is the humanity that means something to me.


Do you think that you’re being too compassionate? You say that it’s largely our fault - I disagree with this; we are not responsible for the actions of brutal regimes, particularly in some middle eastern and African countries. Although I agree that in some cases we are.

Don’t you think that by being too compassionate, that we’re essentially giving an easy out for these brutal regimes. “Well, the west will just take them, we don’t have to change or reform.” In the short term it’s good to let them in, but in the long term, nothing will change. What needs to happen is that people need to bring about revolution and change from within those countries. If they realise that the west won’t accept them, then some will spend their energy on bringing about change from within; it will create an impetus to foment internal change.

Shouldnt the goal be to make their country a better place to live? I know it’s sounds harsh and brutal but don’t forget that we went through that brutality as well (100s of years ago). The road to modernity is paved with blood and toil.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby HBS Guy » 01 Jul 2018, 12:41

We helped the mujihadeen in Afghanistan, that worked out well.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 12:48

HBS Guy wrote:We helped the mujihadeen in Afghanistan, that worked out well.


Yes and that’s one example.

But what about Syria? Syria has always been ruled by a dictator since independence. That wasn’t our fault. The brutality of those regimes are the fault of those regimes. Not us.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby HBS Guy » 01 Jul 2018, 13:19

The US has been bombing in Syria, creating refugees. Then there was the STUPID invasion of Iraq with NO plans for what to do when Bagdad was captured resulting in chaos.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 13:26

Auggie wrote:Syria has always been ruled by a dictator since independence.


perhaps it's not for us to tell them how to live? if they want to rid themselves of a dictator, it's up to them to do it. The west needs to stop getting involved.

It was ridding ourselves of another dictator that ultimately led to ISIS.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 14:21

HBS Guy wrote:The US has been bombing in Syria, creating refugees. Then there was the STUPID invasion of Iraq with NO plans for what to do when Bagdad was captured resulting in chaos.


And what about isis? Are they to blame as well?
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 14:25

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:Syria has always been ruled by a dictator since independence.


perhaps it's not for us to tell them how to live? if they want to rid themselves of a dictator, it's up to them to do it. The west needs to stop getting involved.

It was ridding ourselves of another dictator that ultimately led to ISIS.


Exactly. By being the easy way out, there’s no impetus for them to drive internal change. They can just simply migrate to the west; and the dictators love it because there’s less risk of internal rebellion.

The war in Iraq was a bad decision. I agree.

I’m all for accepting refugees and migrants. It’s also our responsibility to prioritise the people of our nation.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 14:28

Let’s come to a consensus on policy.

Let’s agree to pass a law that states that no family in immigrant processing shall ever be separated. Either they stay together or they are detained together.

Agree?
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 14:45

Auggie wrote:By being the easy way out, there’s no impetus for them to drive internal change. They can just simply migrate to the west


I don't bye that line at all. When Romania first joined the EU, they were bombarded with theories of how all their youth would leave the country. There would be no workers left to work the country. Everyone will run for a better life in Europe.

What happened was, sure, there was a large number that ran, but it was far far lower than expected. And after about a decade, many of them came back, often with new skills that they could then use in Romania.

Sure, you will always get some arabs that will migrate because it's easier, but the number will be far far lower than the number of refugees who now have no alternative because their home towns and cities have been destroyed. Thanks to the wests bombing campaigns, we have 5 million from Syria alone in overseas refugee camps, with another 6 million displaced internally. How many of those do you think would have taken the 'easy route' ?



Don't believe all the hype auggie.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 01 Jul 2018, 14:58

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:By being the easy way out, there’s no impetus for them to drive internal change. They can just simply migrate to the west


I don't bye that line at all. When Romania first joined the EU, they were bombarded with theories of how all their youth would leave the country. There would be no workers left to work the country. Everyone will run for a better life in Europe.

What happened was, sure, there was a large number that ran, but it was far far lower than expected. And after about a decade, many of them came back, often with new skills that they could then use in Romania.

Sure, you will always get some arabs that will migrate because it's easier, but the number will be far far lower than the number of refugees who now have no alternative because their home towns and cities have been destroyed. Thanks to the wests bombing campaigns, we have 5 million from Syria alone in overseas refugee camps, with another 6 million displaced internally. How many of those do you think would have taken the 'easy route' ?



Don't believe all the hype auggie.


I totally get what you're saying. What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes? There's no doubt that a mass influx of people from a different culture and way of life can disrupt the social fabric of society. Should we sacrifice the social fabric of one nation in order to be humane and put 'people before politics' or should we sacrifice compassion for other people in order to maintain the social fabric of the current society?
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 01 Jul 2018, 17:54

Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby mothra » 05 Jul 2018, 15:34

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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby DonDeeHippy » 05 Jul 2018, 16:17

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.

Well said John, I’ll probably steal it from u when I need to answer any multiculturalism questions.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 05 Jul 2018, 18:40

DonDeeHippy wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.

Well said John, I’ll probably steal it from u when I need to answer any multiculturalism questions.
Yes the rose colored yesterday glasses r worn by many. :bgrin


So what about a country like Japan? One of the most ethnically homogeneous civilisations in the world. They’ve existed for over 3000 years (isolated). Have they stagnated? Have they succumbed to tribalism, as you call it??
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 05 Jul 2018, 18:54

Auggie wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.

Well said John, I’ll probably steal it from u when I need to answer any multiculturalism questions.
Yes the rose colored yesterday glasses r worn by many. :bgrin


So what about a country like Japan? One of the most ethnically homogeneous civilisations in the world. They’ve existed for over 3000 years (isolated). Have they stagnated? Have they succumbed to tribalism, as you call it??


they've still always been heavily influenced by other cultures. China, the west for example. Some areas of Japan are almost more American than the Americas, and that's with their ethnic homogeneity
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby johnsmith » 05 Jul 2018, 18:54

Auggie wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.

Well said John, I’ll probably steal it from u when I need to answer any multiculturalism questions.
Yes the rose colored yesterday glasses r worn by many. :bgrin


So what about a country like Japan? One of the most ethnically homogeneous civilisations in the world. They’ve existed for over 3000 years (isolated). Have they stagnated? Have they succumbed to tribalism, as you call it??


they've still always been heavily influenced by other cultures. China, the west for example. Some areas of Japan are almost more American than the Americas, and that's with their ethnic homogeneity
FD.
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Re: The Trump mural and the detained children

Postby Auggie » 05 Jul 2018, 19:25

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:What about also the damage to the social fabric that mass migration causes?


Your assuming societies remain stagnant. Unless you are in some tribe in the amazon or some small island, totally devoid of regular contact with the outside world, then that is not likely to happen no matter what society you are in.
Societies are constantly evolving. Typically for the good, sometimes for worse, but moving on they all do. The same was true before the current globalisation movement, and the same will be true long after we stop worrying about Islam.
Conservatives live in lala land. They want things to be the way they knew them to be when they were younger (we won't get into the flawed memories). And it's not always a bad thing to want to hang on to those happy memories, as long as you don't remove yourself from the reality of the world we live in today.

Well said John, I’ll probably steal it from u when I need to answer any multiculturalism questions.
Yes the rose colored yesterday glasses r worn by many. :bgrin


So what about a country like Japan? One of the most ethnically homogeneous civilisations in the world. They’ve existed for over 3000 years (isolated). Have they stagnated? Have they succumbed to tribalism, as you call it??


they've still always been heavily influenced by other cultures. China, the west for example. Some areas of Japan are almost more American than the Americas, and that's with their ethnic homogeneity


They were initially influenced by China, and then later the West, you are correct. But, you're talking off point here. We're not talking about influences by other countries on a host culture; we're talking about the movement of people from a foreign culture to a host culture, which is quite different.
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