Well, THAT was a shock to the system

[HBS Guy]

Had a bit of a look on Gum Tree.

A big roll of lucerne hay $80, equivalent of 15-20 small bales. Cheap! That guy is not where I am but I bet I can find similar near me.

[HBS Guy]

Yes, am pleased with myself. Miketrees thinks I have spaced the trees a bit far apart but if so, too late to do anything about it. I think light can get through to all the trees.

I have been thinking about this, like planting semi-dwarf eating apples—how many apples can I eat???

So I decided to look up optimum planting distances:

OrangePippin site:

Larger semi-vigorous rootstocks

Fruit tree spacing [when] using vigorous rootstocks

Apple - MM111
Pear - Pyrodwarf
Cherry - Colt

Distance between trees: 4.5m - 5m
Spread: 4.5m


These semi-vigorous rootstocks are more vigorous than the mainstream semi-vigorous rootstocks and need a bit more space.

These rootstocks are best suited to training as half-standards.

So at 4.6m apart, 5m between rows I think I have it right. The trees have canopies 3-4m wide and are 2 - 3.5m tall.

The cherry trees are on dwarf (NOT stallion) rootstocks and are 2 -2.5m tall. Will plant them as standalone trees 2m apart, take up 14m of Row 5 which is fine. Dwarf apple trees will go in Row 4 and perry pears two rows at the front of the garden.

I am going to plant rosemary, sage and oregano in Row 4 for now, plant spuds where I can between trees and hope to get clivia to plant around the trees. Things go better with lots of different things planted/interplanted. Might sow some lemon balm and borage and they self seed so much should keep going over summer. Comfrey is another thing I want to plant.

No point ATM in trying to plant clover or whatever in the rows between the trees—so much wasteland around, former farmland subdivided then nothing done for decades that gorse, couch, kikuyu etc etc will come up regardless of what I do or plant. There is a piece of land across the road from me that is full of weeds and gorse and ti trees etc etc etc: owner needs to do things he can’t afford before subdividing. Across the road a little way past my backfence is farmland, think just grazing land, not crops. So weeds aplenty setting seed that the wind carries to my block. I could pray all the weeds on my block die I suppose

[HBS Guy]

Plant some fennel in the hedgerow. Encourages wasps parasitic on aphids.

[HBS Guy]

Tansy too. Great insect repellent and attract lady beetles, lacewings, minute pirate bugs, and parasitic wasps.

[Gladys]

What happened to the B&B idea?

[Aussie]

What happened to the B&B idea?

I approved that in your absence Mr Smith. There is nothing new or controversial in the content.

Some wanker using an Amsterdam proxy.

[johnsmith]

What happened to the B&B idea?

I approved that in your absence Mr Smith. There is nothing new or controversial in the content.

all good.

[Gladys]

Thanks from Montamarta.

[HBS Guy]

I thought Agnes didn’t read here?

[HBS Guy]

Have drafted what I can of the plan. Pen has dried out so tomorrow will visit OfficeWorks. Need some more colored pencils and an eraser as well.

[Aussie]

Thanks from Montamarta.

Oooooooo....a visitor from Holland no less!



Hi Agnes. Did you use a Dutch IP when you registered as 'Party Time?'

[HBS Guy]

Redoing my humungous and increasingly badly organised spreadsheet as at least 2 spreadsheets, probably three.

One will cover the variety of trees including blossoming time, harvest time, pollination need (self fertile, needs cross-pollination (most apples and cherries) type (bittersweet, bittersharp, tart or sweet.) At one stage I was contemplating buying a tart French cider apple—buy a French tart . I will add to this complete descriptions of the trees: appearance, growth habit, disease susceptibility/resistance, appearance of the fruit etc.

The other the locations of trees, the rows and the individual trees. From this can calculate how much loam/compost/mulch etc I need to buy, distances hoses have to run to each row, distances of hoses along each row.

So putting my holiday to good use.

[HBS Guy]

Four cubic metres of pine bark ordered. Pine needles would have been better, ah well. The guy that slashed my block at the start of each summer will do the spreading, will get this done again near summer, replenish the mulch where the trees will go to 5cm deep, spread the rest out besides the rows so widening the area of soil being amended. Amended by soil critters not me! Excellent!

My cider apples are on M111 rootstocks. Vigorous. 4.6m spacing between trees, 5m between rows is exactly right.

My cherry trees are on Colt rootstock. This site gives planting distance as 2.4–3.0m and I will plant them at 2.5m intervals. Before I do I better work out the shadow line from the house: if he cherry trees are in shade for a fair bit of the day they will crop less and grow more. Can always plant them in row 4 not row 5, 2 metres further from the house.

[HBS Guy]

Heh, I should have ordered hardwood chips. Too bad, pine is better than leaving the clay soil bare where the trees will go. Will replenish the mulch with hardwood chips in December.

[HBS Guy]

I will plant my cherry trees in rows 4 and 5, on the northern side. That will avoid the house shading the cherry trees when they grow branches etc not fruit. What to do with the rest of rows 4 & 5 is to be decided later. Not a clue right now, depends on whether house is 1 storey or two. Like the idea of a two storey house.

Got a book on Holistic Orchard management, Growing Apples and Mycorrhizal planet. Fungus!

[HBS Guy]

Those fucking cherry trees on the colt rootstock will be as big as the fucking cider apple trees! So will space them the same tho rows 4 & 5 are closer together than rows 1&2 and 2&3. Why the fuck can’t places publish accurate info? Will have to see what I can do.

Train them as espalier in some manner. Wrong info in the nursery website. Have sent them an email, see if I get clarification.

[HBS Guy]

Will train them as fans. Cherry trees on Colt rootstock (like mine) need permanent support anyway, not much more work to make a trellis. Put them in rows 4 & 5. Just wish I got accurate info on these trees.

The cider apples on M111 rootstock—can cope with clay soils. Thank fuck for that! Tho I have learned heaps on how to plant in clay and how to amend clay etc.

[HBS Guy]

The info I am getting from Woodbridge tree nursery really doesn’t paint a picture of colt rootstock.

Going to plant them at 2.5m intervals and espalier them as fans, up to 2.5m high. Could grow them as pyramids?

Colt rootstock produces trees 4-5m high. I would be feeding the fucking birds! “keep to 2.5m by pruning” but that doesn’t work, tree grows lots branches not fruit! Can use a branch in the hot smoker some times but it is not a viable strategy.

I think it is Gisella 5 or 6 rootstock. I will act as if that is it and plant the trees 2m apart, espalier as a fan. Leaves loads of room in rows 4&5. Could be my vege patch. Plenty room, feed an army.

[johnsmith]

The info I am getting from Woodbridge tree nursery really doesn’t paint a picture of colt rootstock.

Going to plant them at 2.5m intervals and espalier them as fans, up to 2.5m high. Could grow them as pyramids?

Colt rootstock produces trees 4-5m high. I would be feeding the fucking birds! “keep to 2.5m by pruning” but that doesn’t work, tree grows lots branches not fruit! Can use a branch in the hot smoker some times but it is not a viable strategy.

I think it is Gisella 5 or 6 rootstock. I will act as if that is it and plant the trees 2m apart, espalier as a fan. Leaves loads of room in rows 4&5. Could be my vege patch. Plenty room, feed an army.

i told you, get rid of that and plant some figs. You'll not regret it.

[HBS Guy]

Plenty of room in the southern parts of rows 4 & 5. Fig, lemon, peach and room for veges. Plant the trees close together and root competition will keep trees small and fruit count high! I fucking SAID I will buy a Genoa Black Fig!

[johnsmith]

Plenty of room in the southern parts of rows 4 & 5. Fig, lemon, peach and room for veges. Plant the trees close together and root competition will keep trees small and fruit count high! I fucking SAID I will buy a Genoa Black Fig!

good. Let me know when your fig has fruit, I'll come for a visit.

[HBS Guy]

Might have some cherry brandy too, by then. And cider and perry, and cyser and peary and cherry melomel!

[johnsmith]

Might have some cherry brandy too, by then. And cider and perry, and cyser and peary and cherry melomel!

i won't make it inside for any brandy, I'll be camped by the fig tree for as long as it takes me to eat all the fruit

[HBS Guy]

Bring your own tent!

[johnsmith]

Bring your own tent!

no problem. I have an 8 man tent ... I can even rent rooms it it to swedish female backpackers.