Circumcision

[Vulcan]

So because you seek 'absolutism' that can never be achieved because things go 'underground' - you think 'decriminalising' it will make it better?

where did mothra say that??

When she says "The criminalisation of anything pushes it underground."

Of course it does, until its eradicated completely.
To de-criminalise it is to "let it out of gaol" and back into society.
Sure, maybe some criminal activities may have to do some 'time' before they are de-criminalised.
But Mothra wasn't expressing this, rather than the 'absolutism' of the situation.

[HBS Guy]

Criminalising the production of alcohol in America worked really well.

[johnsmith]

When she says "The criminalisation of anything pushes it underground."

that doesn't mean she's opposed to any laws opposing it. Like she said, it's a very complex and multi faceted issue. It's far to simplistic to just say criminalise it.

[mothra]

Vulcan, can you think of any examples in which mandatory prosecution (which was precisely what Pink asked us to agree with) might in fact be counter-productive?

I certainly can, without thinking very hard at all.

As John said, this is an incredibly complex issue. My hope is that FGC will be utterly eradicated. It profoundly appalls and sickens me. I am informed enough however to realise that simply telling people to stop it or they'll go to jail will in actuality get in the way of support for the girls and women themselves and herald the prevalence of unchecked procedures.

We need to take emotion out of it, if we want results.

[Miranda]

So because you seek 'absolutism' that can never be achieved because things go 'underground' - you think 'decriminalising' it will make it better?

where did mothra say that??

You don't get it Vulcan. In my opinion, Mothra has been indoctrinated into moral relativism. There is no right/ wrong or good/ bad dichotomy because everything must be viewed from the perspective of the culture to which the person belongs, irrespective of the nation or the law. Culture is more valuable... except the Western Culture, which is to be treated with distain due to its inculcation towards cultural colonialism.

IMO then, Mothra supports FMG, irrespective of the law, irrespective of the girl's pain and suffering, irrespective of the risk to the girl's life... but because the culture, in question, has a long history of practicing this shocking abuse of minors. And that is why she is hiding behind words, such as it's complicated issue

Moral relativism will also allow for the total castration of young boys who will then serve as eunuch to the Sultan's Harem. Death by stoning, for women proved promiscuous, marital rape, when the wife dares to decline... and many other cultural norms that The West find abhorent. It's all morally relative which is why it's complicated.

[HBS Guy]

What total crap.

Try again, “Miranda.”

[Aussie]

IMO then, Mothra supports FMG, irrespective of the law, irrespective of the girl's pain and suffering, irrespective of the risk to the girl's life...

I confess to not reading all of this Thread, but I doubt mothra would have posted that, or has that view.

Miranda, do you post at OzPol at all?

[johnsmith]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

[Miranda]

What total crap.

Try again, “Miranda.”

Would you like me to PM a link to my FB so you can see I am who I say I am "HBS Guy" or will you stop this and just move on.

[Miranda]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

Are you saying that moral relativism is hogwash?

[johnsmith]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

Are you saying that moral relativism is hogwash?

I'm saying that your comment was a load of hogwash

[Aussie]

What total crap.

Try again, “Miranda.”

Would you like me to PM a link to my FB so you can see I am who I say I am "HBS Guy" or will you stop this and just move on.

I'll answer that for him. No.....do NOT do that. You keep your real life ID to yourself.

[Miranda]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

Are you saying that moral relativism is hogwash?

I'm saying that your comment was a load of hogwash

How so?

Meanwhile, Mothra, have you been schooled in Moral Relativism?

[johnsmith]

How so?

All of it, from the start to the end, is nothing but a load of hogwash.

[HBS Guy]

Miranda posted:

In my opinion, Mothra has been indoctrinated into moral relativism.

No posts from mothra advanced in evidence of the above. Crap.

[Miranda]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

Are you saying that moral relativism is hogwash?

I'm saying that your comment was a load of hogwash

How so?

Meanwhile, Mothra, have you been schooled in Moral Relativism?

HBS- No posts from mothra advanced in evidence of the above. Crap.

Which is why I have asked her directly.

[mothra]

So because you seek 'absolutism' that can never be achieved because things go 'underground' - you think 'decriminalising' it will make it better?

where did mothra say that??

You don't get it Vulcan. In my opinion, Mothra has been indoctrinated into moral relativism. There is no right/ wrong or good/ bad dichotomy because everything must be viewed from the perspective of the culture to which the person belongs, irrespective of the nation or the law. Culture is more valuable... except the Western Culture, which is to be treated with distain due to its inculcation towards cultural colonialism.

IMO then, Mothra supports FMG, irrespective of the law, irrespective of the girl's pain and suffering, irrespective of the risk to the girl's life... but because the culture, in question, has a long history of practicing this shocking abuse of minors. And that is why she is hiding behind words, such as it's complicated issue

Moral relativism will also allow for the total castration of young boys who will then serve as eunuch to the Sultan's Harem. Death by stoning, for women proved promiscuous, marital rape, when the wife dares to decline... and many other cultural norms that The West find abhorent. It's all morally relative which is why it's complicated.

LOL! What a load of horseshit!

Vulcan, can you think of any examples in which mandatory prosecution (which was precisely what Pink asked us to agree with) might in fact be counter-productive?

I certainly can, without thinking very hard at all.

As John said, this is an incredibly complex issue. My hope is that FGC will be utterly eradicated. It profoundly appalls and sickens me. I am informed enough however to realise that simply telling people to stop it or they'll go to jail will in actuality get in the way of support for the girls and women themselves and herald the prevalence of unchecked procedures.

We need to take emotion out of it, if we want results.

[mothra]

what a load of absolute hogwash by Miranda



if one has to take their argument to ridiculous to make a point they probably had no point to start with

Are you saying that moral relativism is hogwash?

I'm saying that your comment was a load of hogwash

How so?

Meanwhile, Mothra, have you been schooled in Moral Relativism?

HBS- No posts from mothra advanced in evidence of the above. Crap.

Which is why I have asked her directly.

Nothing to suggest it, which is why you've asked me directly?

Genius.

[HBS Guy]

Yeah, you advance evidence—posts from mothra—to substantiate a proposition you want to argue.

[Miranda]

Yeah, you advance evidence—posts from mothra—to substantiate a proposition you want to argue.

I made it very clear that I was just expressing an opinion.

Meanwhile Mothra avoided answering the question.

Mothra, have you been schooled in Moral Relativism? A simple yes or no, is all you need to provide.

[pinkeye]

back on topic please .

To me it will always be Female Genital Mutilation....

Sorry, but it is. And much as I can TRY to fathom the impact it has on every aspect of the lives of the young girls who have been so betrayed, I can never truly understand.

It simply shouldn't happen, whatever one chooses to call it, and ALL perpetrators should face the force of criminal law.

Anyone disagree with my previous sentence.?

Yes. I disagree, if you are to present it so blankly.

The criminalisation of anything just pushes it further underground. Parents will do to dodgy "practitioners" ... be disinclined to seek medical aid ... girls will be deterred from coming forward for fear of causing retribution for their families... etc.

It is a tremendously complex issue. One that requires sensitivity and diligence ... and most importantly, the entreating of people who perform it, undergo it and submit their daughters to it.

+


NO. Entreating those who perform these acts NOT to do it.? No and No again.

I believe it IS AGAINST THE LAW here in AUSTRALIA. No entreaty will stop it FFS. It is already a criminal act, as far as I am aware.

These old women and men need to be punished by OUR LAW. AND SEEN to be punished.

The current young women who have BEEN SUBJECTED to this practice are victims, and. sadly.. sometimes we seem to require LOTS OF VICTIMS. We cannot turn a blind eye.

These young women may join the many millions before them who have died from septicaemia, and Honor killings, for just a couple of examples.
. This is NOT ACCEPTABLE in AUSTRALIA.

CHANGE will always have victims.
LET US NOT ENABLE MORE.

That is a terrible thing for me to say, and I have no direct experience, as I have said previously. I cannot condone ANY acceptance of this practice in Australia.

If ANY culture willingly perpetrates such acts, then it deserves to die.
If such people are forced to remain in their homelands, eventually they'll wipe themselves out. Let them prey on a reducing flock of sheep.}



As for male circumcision - I see it's justification for Medical reasons more so than religious or ceremonial or pro-entertainment reasons. But I'm sure there are many males now getting it done as 'adults' just to 'enhance' their success in their porn careers.

[Vulcan]

Vulcan, can you think of any examples in which mandatory prosecution (which was precisely what Pink asked us to agree with) might in fact be counter-productive?

I certainly can, without thinking very hard at all.

As John said, this is an incredibly complex issue. My hope is that FGC will be utterly eradicated. It profoundly appalls and sickens me. I am informed enough however to realise that simply telling people to stop it or they'll go to jail will in actuality get in the way of support for the girls and women themselves and herald the prevalence of unchecked procedures.

We need to take emotion out of it, if we want results.

Well my apologies Mothra. I missed the part where you put thought to the fact that it's a complex issue. That at least tells me you are not pursuing absolutism with it as originally thought.

[pinkeye]

I believe Female Genital Mutilation is a criminal act in Australia.

Am I wrong.?

[pinkeye]

So sorry...

BUT Female Genital Mutilation is happening here, today. IT SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING.!!

Sorry for those who will go on suffering this abomination. Sorry people might enable further mutilation. SORRY to the GIRLS who KNOW no BETTER.

[Lefty]

There are no inherint health necessities to perform the procedure on either sex.

With or without it, the rate of infection for males is extremely low.

Can you tell much of a difference when it's up? (sorry, I don;t make a habit of looking at other blokes dicks so I'm not sure)