ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

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ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby dissilymordentroge » 19 Oct 2018, 11:05

Strikes me as unfortunate those who could benefit most from having solar power installed are either too poor to do so or rent from landlords who don’t care how much tenants pay for their power. Subidies are useles to those on low incomes if they have to pay up front installation costs before getting a refund. So, we have another example of those with money to spare getting to save whilst those without remain disadvantaged. Maybe that comes across as a socialist rave but I suggest it’s something governments should think about carefully.That is if they’re not addicted to the insane, unscientific support of an obsolete coal industry.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby HBS Guy » 19 Oct 2018, 11:12

Something is being done to encourage landlords to insulate and install solar PV on rental houses. Don’t ask me for details tho.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby johnsmith » 19 Oct 2018, 12:51

HBS Guy wrote:Something is being done to encourage landlords to insulate and install solar PV on rental houses. Don’t ask me for details tho.


unless someone coughs up the full cost, most landlords won't bother


i think they should encourage the landlord and the tenants to split the out of pocket expenses
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby dissilymordentroge » 19 Oct 2018, 13:15

johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
i think they should encourage the landlord and the tenants to split the out of pocket expenses


I’m not sure how you’d impliment that and I imagine a high percentage of tenants, unless they had very long secure leases, wouidn’t like the idea of adding to the value of their landlord’s asset.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Oct 2018, 13:27

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewa ... -moreland/

The Moreland Energy Foundation Ltd (MEFL) and SunTenants launched their Solar for Renters pilot program today. The pilot solar renters program will test out the ‘split incentive’ model for landlords and renters.
Moreland is an inner-northern region of Melbourne, where around 38 per cent of homes are rentals. As there can be limited incentives for landlords to install solar panels, renters often get locked out of the benefits of solar. For this reason, the pilot program will enable 10 initial participating households to test out the Solar for Renters model.
Through the SunTenants model, both tenants and landlords could potentially benefit from the installation of solar panels – landlords from subsidies and increased rents, and tenants from cheaper electricity.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/201 ... ls/9409098

One "climate conscious" community group in regional NSW called Z-Net Uralla recently teamed up with the not-for-profit CORENA fund (Citizens Own Renewable Energy Network Australia) to give landlords interest-free loans to install solar on their rental properties. CORENA also helps broker a fair rent increase to help cover the cost of repayments.
"We are hoping that the partnership can be a model for communities elsewhere to copy," Margaret Hender of CORENA said.
"We make sure that any rent increase is no more than half the savings that the tenant will get from having solar installed."
Councils take the lead
There's also a move among local councils to offer landlords interest-free loans that can be paid off via rate instalments.
Under the "solar savers" scheme pioneered by Darebin City Council in Melbourne, landlords can even transfer their loan to the new owner when the property is sold. Darebin is now targeting landlords, which means renters will be able to negotiate a rent increase to help cover the loan repayment. The City of Adelaide is another council that has followed this lead.

a few links to start :purple
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby johnsmith » 19 Oct 2018, 17:10

dissilymordentroge wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
i think they should encourage the landlord and the tenants to split the out of pocket expenses


I’m not sure how you’d impliment that and I imagine a high percentage of tenants, unless they had very long secure leases, wouidn’t like the idea of adding to the value of their landlord’s asset.



you couldn't enforce it ... and only long term tenants are ever likely to consider it, but it couldn't hurt to remind tenants it was an option

owners don't like coughing up for unnecessary repairs, however like everyone else, owners love a bargain. If they think the tenant will pay half they're more inclined to go for it. When I was managing properties I would always suggest it to the tenant if hey wanted something put in (usually air con). If tenant refused, owner would never know it had even been suggested. If the tenant agreed, I'd put the offer to the owners and in all cases I had it come up, they agreed (3 occasions).
Where tenants refused to pay and I asked owners to cough up, it was a 50/50 chance and usually landlord wanted a rent increase to cover it


the only time I got pissed off at an owner was 6 months after one tenant paid half for air, the owner sold the property and tenant had to go.The tenant should have asked for longer lease to cover himself
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby dissilymordentroge » 19 Oct 2018, 19:26

johnsmith wrote:
dissilymordentroge wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
i think they should encourage the landlord and the tenants to split the out of pocket expenses


I’m not sure how you’d impliment that and I imagine a high percentage of tenants, unless they had very long secure leases, wouidn’t like the idea of adding to the value of their landlord’s asset.



you couldn't enforce it ... and only long term tenants are ever likely to consider it, but it couldn't hurt to remind tenants it was an option

owners don't like coughing up for unnecessary repairs, however like everyone else, owners love a bargain. If they think the tenant will pay half they're more inclined to go for it. When I was managing properties I would always suggest it to the tenant if hey wanted something put in (usually air con). If tenant refused, owner would never know it had even been suggested. If the tenant agreed, I'd put the offer to the owners and in all cases I had it come up, they agreed (3 occasions).
Where tenants refused to pay and I asked owners to cough up, it was a 50/50 chance and usually landlord wanted a rent increase to cover it


the only time I got pissed off at an owner was 6 months after one tenant paid half for air, the owner sold the property and tenant had to go.The tenant should have asked for longer lease to cover himself


Maybe tenancy laws in Australia need to be reviewed?
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby Aussie » 19 Oct 2018, 19:41

johnsmith wrote:
dissilymordentroge wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
i think they should encourage the landlord and the tenants to split the out of pocket expenses


I’m not sure how you’d impliment that and I imagine a high percentage of tenants, unless they had very long secure leases, wouidn’t like the idea of adding to the value of their landlord’s asset.



you couldn't enforce it ... and only long term tenants are ever likely to consider it, but it couldn't hurt to remind tenants it was an option

owners don't like coughing up for unnecessary repairs, however like everyone else, owners love a bargain. If they think the tenant will pay half they're more inclined to go for it. When I was managing properties I would always suggest it to the tenant if hey wanted something put in (usually air con). If tenant refused, owner would never know it had even been suggested. If the tenant agreed, I'd put the offer to the owners and in all cases I had it come up, they agreed (3 occasions).
Where tenants refused to pay and I asked owners to cough up, it was a 50/50 chance and usually landlord wanted a rent increase to cover it


the only time I got pissed off at an owner was 6 months after one tenant paid half for air, the owner sold the property and tenant had to go.The tenant should have asked for longer lease to cover himself


Oh...yeah.....the tenant was at fault. Bullshit.

Dizzy is right....landlords need very serious reigning in. Arseholes they be.

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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby johnsmith » 19 Oct 2018, 20:34

Aussie wrote:Oh...yeah.....the tenant was at fault. Bullshit.


no one said the tenant was at fault. I was pissed of with the owner.

Nevertheless, it was in the tenants best interest to secure his tenancy as part of the deal.

After that incident i always suggested to tenants in similar situations that they do so.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby Aussie » 19 Oct 2018, 20:55

You know as you have been right in the middle of it. I am sure you have seen arsehole tenants, but my bet is that there is at least an equal number of arsehole landlords who just screw the crap out of tenants, yes?
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby johnsmith » 19 Oct 2018, 21:14

Aussie wrote:You know as you have been right in the middle of it. I am sure you have seen arsehole tenants, but my bet is that there is at least an equal number of arsehole landlords who just screw the crap out of tenants, yes?


actually,most landlords I had were pretty good. I only had one or two who were only interested in money. tenants on the other hand were a pain in the arse. The nicer they were during he tenancy, the bigger the dickhead when they moved out if you picked something on their exit condition report. Even obvious stuff.

Teachers were he worst. Japanese tenants he best
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby Aussie » 19 Oct 2018, 21:35

The nicer they were during he tenancy, the bigger the dickhead when they moved out if you picked something on their exit condition report.


Yes indeed. It is an obvious area ripe for dispute. Fair wear and tear. Nah, landlord takes the view (rather the Managing Agent takes the view) that the place has to be as 'pristine' as it was when tenant moved in. Plain logic says that is impossible. But, the tenant just folds and hands over the bond or part thereof, and landlord/agent says..."Gee, now we can have a beer on the tenant."

Nah, renting a property means there will be a diminution from brand new, to used....and on and on.

I have seen one particular tenant who always got a 100% inspection report get shafted when they left. I have actually witnessed a managing agent go to a rented place for an inspection, loiter outside, not attempt to enter, and leave.

That 'industry' needs a broom well and truly up its clacker.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby dissilymordentroge » 19 Oct 2018, 22:42

Aussie wrote:
The nicer they were during he tenancy, the bigger the dickhead when they moved out if you picked something on their exit condition report.


Yes indeed. It is an obvious area ripe for dispute. Fair wear and tear. Nah, landlord takes the view (rather the Managing Agent takes the view) that the place has to be as 'pristine' as it was when tenant moved in. Plain logic says that is impossible. But, the tenant just folds and hands over the bond or part thereof, and landlord/agent says..."Gee, now we can have a beer on the tenant."

Nah, renting a property means there will be a diminution from brand new, to used....and on and on.

I have seen one particular tenant who always got a 100% inspection report get shafted when they left. I have actually witnessed a managing agent go to a rented place for an inspection, loiter outside, not attempt to enter, and leave.

That 'industry' needs a broom well and truly up its clacker.

I rented for many decades before finally buying my little place in the country. Early on I made a point of photographing every room in the house and the outside when I moved in. I had a friend entitled to sign stat declarations for the genuineness of before and after shots. When agents attempted to keep my bond they recieved a challenge from my solicitor with copies of all the photos.
Every single one of them backed off. Mind you it helped me having a close friend who was a solicitor so I didn’t have to think about legal fees. And man oh man, did I ever enjoy screwing those bastard agents and landlords !
One battle I did lose though. I rented a house built by Robin Boyd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Boyd_(architect) for himself in 1940, a fabulous place. One day a woman I’d never seen turned up at my door asking ‘Who are you?’
Turned out she’d left the care of the house with her niece whilst overseas for years. The niece was only supposed to organise gardening and security. Unknown to Auntie she rented the place. Auntie sued her niece for the rent do you mind and I was forced to take days off work to attend the court case. The old bitch didn’t even thank me for assisting in suing the niece.
She then went on to destroy the house, one of this countries most significant examples of modern domestic architecture. Oh well, you can’t win em all.
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Re: ALternative energy from a left of centre perspective

Postby johnsmith » 20 Oct 2018, 08:03

Aussie wrote:
The nicer they were during he tenancy, the bigger the dickhead when they moved out if you picked something on their exit condition report.


Yes indeed. It is an obvious area ripe for dispute. Fair wear and tear. Nah, landlord takes the view (rather the Managing Agent takes the view) that the place has to be as 'pristine' as it was when tenant moved in. Plain logic says that is impossible. But, the tenant just folds and hands over the bond or part thereof, and landlord/agent says..."Gee, now we can have a beer on the tenant."

Nah, renting a property means there will be a diminution from brand new, to used....and on and on.

I have seen one particular tenant who always got a 100% inspection report get shafted when they left. I have actually witnessed a managing agent go to a rented place for an inspection, loiter outside, not attempt to enter, and leave.

That 'industry' needs a broom well and truly up its clacker.



nah, I wasn't talking about fair wear and tear .. I usually gave the tenant he benefit of doubt in those cases, I was talking about obvious breakages. Like cracked tiles where they dropped something on it, missing keys to the security bolts etc.

the problem with most property agents these days is that they're overworked. It's not uncommon to have 120 - 140 properties per manager on the books. A manager can only really manage up to 80 properties comfortably. Any more and they need to start taking shortcuts, miss inspections etc.

I know of one manager who started with a new agency and was given 140 properties. She turned up to inspect one property only to find his ceiling was sagging. She scolded the tenant for not reporting it and his reply was that he reported it 5 yrs earlier. She was the first inspection in 5 yrs. She quit he next day.

Another agency in Broad beach had 1500 properties on it's books, and only 4 property managers.

Industry needs looking into, but it's not the mangers who are screwing everyone, it's the agency principals who refuse to put on more managers.
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