Electric Vehicles this week

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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby karlrand » 05 Feb 2020, 13:42

pinkeye wrote:.
You'd think these rich cunts would pay us better. THEN we could consume more... :roll

Wish I had your ability to express economic theory so clearly.
There’s a problem with your idea though. As the rich cunts come to own more advanced artificial intelligence/robotic technology/resources etc they wont need us for anything, let alone put us on their payroll. Robots (unless there are some startling advances in artificial intelligence) don’t join unions you see.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 07 Feb 2020, 07:07

Been reading about Tesla's goals and they want to sell enough vehicles to replace 1% of the global fleet a year..
that's about 10 Million cars a year...
If they keep increasing sales by 50% a year it will take just a shade over 8 years to do this and sell about as many cars as VW and Toyota....
so far they went from 2000 to 370,000 in the first 8 years that's over 90% increase YOY so it's looks very doable...

This year will be easy to increase 50% with the new Chinese factory and new production lines for the Model Y....
They just bought the land for a new factory in Germany and now talking about a new factory for their Ute in Texas..
go Tesla and drag the other car manufactures with you.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 07 Feb 2020, 08:01

DonDeeHippy wrote:https://insideevs.com/news/396177/global-ev-sales-december-2019/

Around 2.2 million passenger plug-in car sales globally in 2019 translates into an average of 2.5% market share (1 in 40 new cars).
The global plug-in electric car sales slightly declined in December, although the past month was the third-best ever, which makes us cautiously optimistic.
According to the EV Sales Blog, some over 279,000 plug-in cars were sold in December, 4% less than a year ago.
See more of our sales reports for December 2019 here.
While the last couple of months were challenging due to significant drops in China, the overall result for 2019 is positive: almost 2,210,000 (up 10% year-over-year).
Moreover, the average plug-in market share improved from 2.1% to 2.5% (or 1 in 40 new cars).
Most of the volume comes from all-electric cars (74%!), which also improved its position by 5% year-over-year, while plug-in hybrids (26%) declined.

The Tesla Model 3 set new all-time sales records: 53,742 for a single month and over 300,000 for the year (300,885 according to Tesla).
The second-best last year (111,047), with also a personal monthly record of 21,963, is the BAIC EU-Series - the first non-Tesla model to exceed 20,000 in a single month.
Interestingly, the Nissan LEAF (5,414 in December and 69,873 YTD) managed to secure the third step of the podium, ahead of the weak BYD Yuan (1,434 in December and 67,839 YTD). The LEAF sales shrunk in 2019 by 20% though.

The article also has lots of pretty graphs for the more visual of us....

10 years ago Electric Vehicle sales where 2000 for the year, now they are 2,210,000

Unfortunately Australia is way behind the rest of the world, however last year with the Hyundai Kona and the Tesla 3 being sold it would of dramatically increased ,at least 300% I'd say, I saw a report that 8 new electric vehicles will be released in Aus this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ars-fall-8

According to The Guardian, that country’s Electric Vehicle Council claims 6,718 fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles were sold in 2019. That’s up from 2,216 in 2018, and while the total numbers are small, they represent a more than threefold increase year over year. That’s despite a total lack of incentives for electric cars or for EV charging infrastructure in the country. But here’s the interesting thing: Sales of gasoline- and diesel-powered cars fell 7.8% over the same period.
How was that for a guess, Hopefully the numbers will increase this year as well. :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Feb 2020, 08:05

That is a breakneck pace of expansion! Hope they are spending heaps on R&D too!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Feb 2020, 12:35

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/07/te ... cient-suv/

Tesla Model Y Performance — 315 Mile Range (506km), 121 MPGe (Most Efficient SUV)


The Tesla Model Y Performance has received its official range and efficiency rating from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Its range is 315 miles on a full charge, and it is officially the most efficient crossover SUV in the US based on the agency’s fuel economy formula for MPGe (miles per gallon equivalency).

Model Y Performance has 1 MPGe better efficiency than the Hyundai Kona Electric (basically, a statistical tie)
Considering they almost have double the horsepower that is really impressive...

Tesla have really increased their efficiency and even their performance version little on long range version is the most efficient SUV....
What I find amazing is they keep improving the cars in increments not model Numbers or by year like all the other car companies do, if it's a software improvement the entire fleet get the improvements, no wonder they are the highest in customer satisfaction, referral and return business of any car manufacturer... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Feb 2020, 12:51

UK combustion vehicle sales fell 18% year on year in January as plug-in electric vehicles took almost 6% of the market, up from 2.2% a year ago. Diesel sales were hit particularly hard, selling 36% less volume than January 2019. Will the UK government's recent target of phasing out combustion vehicles by 2035 be overtaken by consumer preferences
Europe's largest auto market, Germany, saw January fossil fuel vehicle sales drop by over 15% year-on-year, with gasoline vehicles alone down over 17%. Meanwhile, EVs increased their market share to 6.5% from 2.5%. Europe's big five markets are now at a combined 6.0% EV market share. What progress will full year 2020 bring overall..:purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby karlrand » 08 Feb 2020, 13:01

HBS Guy wrote:That is a breakneck pace of expansion! Hope they are spending heaps on R&D too!

I hope they spend some of it on accident safety. Their chasis don’t have a good reputation for surviving crashes.
Otherwise I’d buy one in a flash if there was anywhere around here I could charge the thing.
Ok, I know you can instal solar charged batteries at home but the cost of batteries is still insane.
Things are changing though.
From my perspective though the main problem is, (as is the case with rooftop solar) those who would benefit the most, the poor, can’t afford the entry fee.
Yet another case of the rich getting richer.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Feb 2020, 13:17

karlrand wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:That is a breakneck pace of expansion! Hope they are spending heaps on R&D too!

I hope they spend some of it on accident safety. Their chasis don’t have a good reputation for surviving crashes.
Otherwise I’d buy one in a flash if there was anywhere around here I could charge the thing.
Ok, I know you can instal solar charged batteries at home but the cost of batteries is still insane.
Things are changing though.
From my perspective though the main problem is, (as is the case with rooftop solar) those who would benefit the most, the poor, can’t afford the entry fee.
Yet another case of the rich getting richer.

6.4× More Accidents In Average US Car Than In Tesla With Tesla Autopilot On (Per Mile)

On its website, Tesla states that, “In the 4th quarter, we have registered one accident for every 3.07 million miles driven in which the drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.10 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.63 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States, there is an automobile accident crash every 479,000 miles.”

The Tesla S and 3 have the 2 highest safety overall safty ratings of any car in Australia, The S X and 3 again top in USA and EU safety tests.
If you really look at the accidents that have happened, when the chassis has fallen apart is usually when high speeds are involved just like any other car, what is amazing is how fast and horrendous these accidents have been and still the passengers have survived and sometime gotten out scott free... Not something other cars can boast.
One man hit a parked Firetruck on the road doing 130km's and he got a sprained ankle out of it...

The latest crash involving a Tesla was about a week ago I think
The tesla was going through a stop light and a sports car went through a red light and t-boned the Tesla doing around 200km's , the impact broke the Tesla into 2 pieces, no the tesla didn't catch on fire and Yes the Driver walked away uninjured... I know that's the kind of car I want to be in if a accident occurs....

Where a Tesla really shines are head on accidents, there is not big motor in the front so that entire space can crumple and save the occupants. The other advantage is the low centre of gravity just about makes them imposable to flip...
When the US government did rollover test on the X they broke their machine...
Unfortunately every Tesla crash is News, for instance every day in the US there are 580 car fires a DAY, yet the 12 fires that have happened with tesla's (there are a million Tesla's now) have been portrayed as a uncommon occurrence….
Don't forget every Car with a fuel tank is a potential bomb if the accident is bad enough or around the tank...
Even if a Lithium battery does catch on fire it wont explode, when thermal runaway does happen though it can be hard to put out, Interestingly the Tesla 3 has a different battery and pack and none of the 500,000 that have been build have ever had a battery fire...
If you truly want the safest car on the road you can buy now, then any of the 3 Tesla models will be your best bet …
if your worried about a fire then the Model 3 is your best bet as none have ever caught on fire :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 08 Feb 2020, 22:21

Tesla's have 400-600 km's of range and the Hyundai Kona is about 400 km's as well, so as long as you can get power to where you park your car at night you will never need a public charger... Work out how many days a year you need to drive more than 400 km's and that's how often you need a charger, also check how many chargers are about 400km's from you or further, you will be surprised, I think the Australian electric council have charger maps on their site...
About 95% of Ev owners charge their cars at home every night and love the fact they never have to go to a smelly gas station ever again....Even better new electric vehicle's have chargers built into them or supplied in price so all you need to do is find a power point for them :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 09 Feb 2020, 09:04

DonDeeHippy wrote:Even if a Lithium battery does catch on fire it wont explode, when thermal runaway does happen though it can be hard to put out, Interestingly the Tesla 3 has a different battery and pack and none of the 500,000 that have been build have ever had a battery fire...
If you truly want the safest car on the road you can buy now, then any of the 3 Tesla models will be your best bet …
if your worried about a fire then the Model 3 is your best bet as none have ever caught on fire :purple


What crap, there have been numerous fires in teslas, caused by the batteries, as nothing else is inflammable. The link below is just one of many describing battery fires in tesla's, which happen most times they crash and many times, when stationary. I'm averaging 470klms on my Kona, my friend who got a model 3 a month or so ago, had told me they can't get past 400klms so far and the regen braking, just doesn't provide much energy at all compared to the kona when he came for a drive in it and showed them how it worked. The model 3 has more room, but the seats are crap and very uncomfortable for me being over 183cm.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/11/a-l ... ince-2013/

https://www.torquenews.com/1/why-tesla- ... eries-dont
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 09 Feb 2020, 13:00

Dax wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Even if a Lithium battery does catch on fire it wont explode, when thermal runaway does happen though it can be hard to put out, Interestingly the Tesla 3 has a different battery and pack and none of the 500,000 that have been build have ever had a battery fire...
If you truly want the safest car on the road you can buy now, then any of the 3 Tesla models will be your best bet …
if your worried about a fire then the Model 3 is your best bet as none have ever caught on fire :purple


What crap, there have been numerous fires in teslas, caused by the batteries, as nothing else is inflammable. The link below is just one of many describing battery fires in tesla's, which happen most times they crash and many times, when stationary. I'm averaging 470klms on my Kona, my friend who got a model 3 a month or so ago, had told me they can't get past 400klms so far and the regen braking, just doesn't provide much energy at all compared to the kona when he came for a drive in it and showed them how it worked. The model 3 has more room, but the seats are crap and very uncomfortable for me being over 183cm.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/11/a-l ... ince-2013/

https://www.torquenews.com/1/why-tesla- ... eries-dont

The Tesla Model 3 Battery has never caught fire..... If I'm speaking crap please prove me wrong.
Unlike the Kona that self ignited in a garage in Canada, actually blew up..... Considering there has only been a few hundred of these sold in North America it's pretty bad compared to the hundreds of thousands of Tesla's sold there...
The link you provided showed 14 tesla's catching on fire, almost all of them , horrendous high speed accidents over a period of 5 years, repeat in the USA alone there is 580 car fires a Day and about 80 deaths a year...
So far there have been no official reports of a death because of fire with a Tesla...
Last year alone BMW had to recall 100,000 cars because they where catching on fire parked and GM had to recall 2 million cars because their cars where catching fire...
Tesla's have never had a recall on fire issue's either voluntary or enforced....
August last year a Model 3 in Russia hit a parked truck and caught on fire (probably from the tank spilling onto the Tesla from the crash), however the battery pack didn't ignite even though the rest of the car was on fire, also the passengers got out safely the driver had a broken leg and his 2 kids unhurt...
They think the owner hacked the computer to do a dodgy autopilot and was looking at the back seat when it hit, Tesla isn't sold or supported in Russia yet...

Again don't believe the hype about electric cars catching on fire.. Tesla's and the Kona are both good options ….. The Tesla Model 3 which is now the highest selling EV in the world has never had a battery pack on fire with about 450,000 made :)

Please get your stories straight Dax....
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 09 Feb 2020, 14:34

Yeah, no ideology getting in the way and don’t mention god nutter for fucks sake.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 10 Feb 2020, 08:43

DonDeeHippy wrote:Again don't believe the hype about electric cars catching on fire.. Tesla's and the Kona are both good options ….. The Tesla Model 3 which is now the highest selling EV in the world has never had a battery pack on fire with about 450,000 made :)

Please get your stories straight Dax....


It's you who have to get your stories straight, you're so deep in denial you refuse to accept the recorded and verified evidence presented to you.

Tell me, what it is that catches fire in tesla's and other EV's when they crash, when there is no fuels or oils to ignite, just the batteries. Even ICE vehicles don't catch fire all the time when in a crash, in fact ICE car crash fires are reasonably rare compared to the number of crashes they have. Yet Tesla's seem to catch fire regularly when in a crash and they have no ignitable substances, other than li-ion batteries, which are renowned for catching fire and exploding.

You'll just make up some pathetic excuse as usual and continue deep in denial of the truth, li-ion/li-poly batteries get very hot, and do catch fire and explode regularly. Tesla is no different and that's why some EV makers are changing to lifepo4 because they don't easily explode, get hot or catch fire. The only down side of lifepo4, is they don't have the same density as li-ion/li-poly, but they are a very safe lithium chemistry, compared to what they put in tesla's. If you've got the guts, read the links I provided instead of just putting your head in the sand in denial.

Tesla uses water cooling because of the huge heat generated from their battery packs, if they didn't they would catch fire or explode and that is what is happening in every tesla fire.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 10 Feb 2020, 22:00

Dax wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Again don't believe the hype about electric cars catching on fire.. Tesla's and the Kona are both good options ….. The Tesla Model 3 which is now the highest selling EV in the world has never had a battery pack on fire with about 450,000 made :)

Please get your stories straight Dax....


It's you who have to get your stories straight, you're so deep in denial you refuse to accept the recorded and verified evidence presented to you.

Tell me, what it is that catches fire in tesla's and other EV's when they crash, when there is no fuels or oils to ignite, just the batteries. Even ICE vehicles don't catch fire all the time when in a crash, in fact ICE car crash fires are reasonably rare compared to the number of crashes they have. Yet Tesla's seem to catch fire regularly when in a crash and they have no ignitable substances, other than li-ion batteries, which are renowned for catching fire and exploding.

You'll just make up some pathetic excuse as usual and continue deep in denial of the truth, li-ion/li-poly batteries get very hot, and do catch fire and explode regularly. Tesla is no different and that's why some EV makers are changing to lifepo4 because they don't easily explode, get hot or catch fire. The only down side of lifepo4, is they don't have the same density as li-ion/li-poly, but they are a very safe lithium chemistry, compared to what they put in tesla's. If you've got the guts, read the links I provided instead of just putting your head in the sand in denial.

Tesla uses water cooling because of the huge heat generated from their battery packs, if they didn't they would catch fire or explode and that is what is happening in every tesla fire.

Dax there are 580 Car fires a DAY just in the USA....
Yes a few of the original Tesla's caught on fire, usually after a very bad crash, just like fossil fuel cars do.
As I said before the New Tesla the Model 3 which by the way is the biggest selling model of any EV, just taken over the Nissan Leaf.
They changed the chemistry of the battery and the pack, I think they are immersed in fluid so gases cant escape.
Anyway NONE of these cars have ever had a battery catch on fire.....
The biggest problem is when a Tesla catches on fire it is News, when the other 580 cars a day just in the USA catch on fire it isn't news.
Now every major crash a Tesla get's investigated by the government where it has happen, after all they are new Tech and new car and they want to know what happened.
Everyone of these Tesla have fully helped with the investigation, also every Tesla is linked to the internet and has a log of everything it does, Tesla give these logs to the government as well.
So far no Government Body that has investigated a crash has said Tesla has done anything wrong, now think about that before you go on about how unsafe they are...
When the EV's catch on fire it isn't a explosion, they take awhile and gives time for the occupants to escape the vehicle.
They are not so lucky in Fossil fuel cars with 80 fire car deaths a year in USA lone.
Also remember there has been no reported deaths in Tesla's because the car caught on fire.. That's not to say there never will be, just there never has been.
Also thermal Runaway is when the Lithium Batteries catch on fire, it isn't heat, it's when the batteries get broken and the gas that leak ignites, so a accident has to be bad enough to break open the batteries:
SO far there have been thousands of written off Tesla's and less that 20 (out of 1,000,000) have been bad enough where they catch on fire.... Not much different from every other car
I read the 2 links you gave one shows 14 fires over a 5 year period and the other was just a opinion piece with no evidence...
Interesting the first fire was when the first Tesla's where made and they didn't make the bottom strong enough, one got punctured and damaged the pack, Tesla right away changed the design and made then stronger and has never happened again, unlike most car companies that need to go kicking and screaming to change a car once it starts into production,, yes Ford i'm talking about you.
...purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 11 Feb 2020, 05:16

"We now have more details on the Tesla Model 3 crash that resulted in explosions in Moscow last weekend. Autopilot was indeed activated during the crash and it did apply the brakes a second before the collision."

https://electrek.co/2019/08/12/tesla-au ... xplosions/

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/2018/ ... catch-fire
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 11 Feb 2020, 05:40

Dax wrote:"We now have more details on the Tesla Model 3 crash that resulted in explosions in Moscow last weekend. Autopilot was indeed activated during the crash and it did apply the brakes a second before the collision."

https://electrek.co/2019/08/12/tesla-au ... xplosions/

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/2018/ ... catch-fire

As I said Dax the crash in Russia might of been on autopolot, because he hacked the system... Tesla does not cover Russia for their driver assist.. Notice also this Model 3 caught on fire the air bags even exploded and the battery pack did NOT catch on fire :.
Tesla alway say when using auto pilot still watch the road, the driver confessed to be looking at the back seat when it crashed....cant fix stupidity, plus he was using software that wasn't approved for his country, double stupid, he is lucky to of got out alive....
Also it was going over 100km's and hit a stationary truck, the 2 kids in the back where unhurt and the driver had a broken leg, they also where out of the car for a long time before it caught on fire, good thing you brought this up, it shows how safe the Tesla's are....
bgrin

Now next link
Friday, January 26, 2018
so this was released when Tesla had only made about 2000 Model 3's and now they are up to 450,000 and still no fire, Sandy Munroe probably the best tear down company said the Model 3 is just about imposable to catch fire...

Yesterday CNBC reported that a number of current and former Tesla employees have confirmed that Model 3 productions problems are deeper and more persistent than has been previously reported or acknowledged by the company in its last earnings call.
The employee's are not named so it's a opinion piece and not one prediction from this article is true or came true...

Please Dax find some real evidence against the Model 3, I'm sure your savy enough to find it.
Or just admit your wrong and admit Tesla's are bloody good and very safe cars especially the Model 3's :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 11 Feb 2020, 08:11

Typical, so deep in denial and have an excuse for everything, no different to all denialist clones, like trump with your constant fake news bullshit.

The pathetic excuse that it's in Russia, is ludicrous, it's still a tesla, it still caught fire and there was no other ignition point other than the vehicles batteries.

The only thing in a tesla model 3 and all other ev's that can catch fire without being ignited by another source of fire, is the batteries, nothing else has an ignition point and the truck didn't catch fire, which was an ICE vehicle. Thermal runaway, is when a li-ion/poly cell overheats, is shorted or damaged, causing heat to build up and catch fire. Li-ion/poly are extremely prone to overheating and catching fire, that's a well known fact and tesla uses li-ion cells, not the safe lifepo4 cells, which don't suffer thermal runaway, or over heating. The facts are and have witnessed this myself, all lifepo4 does when a cell is overcharged, is nothing and when fractured or an ignition put to them, is smoke. This is the opposite to li-ion/poly, which just catch fire and or explode. That's why I went with lifepo4 for my homes and mobile home uses. The kona has li-ion batteries, so only charge it to 3/4 full unless doing a trip beyond 300klms, that way the pack can't overheat and top it to 3/4 full every day it's used.

You can rabbit on about the number of ice vehicle fire, but there are billions of ice vehicle around the planet and they all have ignition points of fuel and batteries.

So in your expert opinion, :rofl what caused the fire in the model 3's other tesla's and all Ev fires, if not the batteries.

Have never said tesla aren't good, they are, but they have their problems and the major one is batteries, no different to other ev's that use the same lithium chemistry. Have yet to come across any ev maker that actually tells their customers how to manage their battery systems to avoid fires or explosions and extend their battery life. Even when in the EU at all the motor shows and dealers, none mentioned battery safety or how to manage them, tesla just says they are safe and that's it. Ask them anything else and all you get is a blank stare, which to me is very wrong as using proper charging and maintenance techniques in an EV, will make a huge difference to their life and safety.

When bought my kona asked them about battery charge and maintenance regimes for longevity and safety, was told to just plug them in and they will be fine.

You want go get out of being a pathetic denialist fan boy for tesla and look at the real world of Ev's, if you ever can afford to get into a decent one.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby karlrand » 11 Feb 2020, 09:56

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:"We now have more details on the Tesla Model 3 crash that resulted in explosions in Moscow last weekend. Autopilot was indeed activated during the crash and it did apply the brakes a second before the collision."

https://electrek.co/2019/08/12/tesla-au ... xplosions/

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/2018/ ... catch-fire

As I said Dax the crash in Russia might of been on autopolot, because he hacked the system... Tesla does not cover Russia for their driver assist.. Notice also this Model 3 caught on fire the air bags even exploded and the battery pack did NOT catch on fire :.
Tesla alway say when using auto pilot still watch the road, the driver confessed to be looking at the back seat when it crashed....cant fix stupidity, plus he was using software that wasn't approved for his country, double stupid, he is lucky to of got out alive....
Also it was going over 100km's and hit a stationary truck, the 2 kids in the back where unhurt and the driver had a broken leg, they also where out of the car for a long time before it caught on fire, good thing you brought this up, it shows how safe the Tesla's are....
bgrin

Now next link
Friday, January 26, 2018
so this was released when Tesla had only made about 2000 Model 3's and now they are up to 450,000 and still no fire, Sandy Munroe probably the best tear down company said the Model 3 is just about imposable to catch fire...

Yesterday CNBC reported that a number of current and former Tesla employees have confirmed that Model 3 productions problems are deeper and more persistent than has been previously reported or acknowledged by the company in its last earnings call.
The employee's are not named so it's a opinion piece and not one prediction from this article is true or came true...

Please Dax find some real evidence against the Model 3, I'm sure your savy enough to find it.
Or just admit your wrong and admit Tesla's are bloody good and very safe cars especially the Model 3's :purple

Find myself wondering if there may be a hidden collective of auto manufacturers who see the electric revolution as a threat and are working together behind the scenes to promote &/or support disinformation?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 12 Feb 2020, 07:27

karlrand wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:"We now have more details on the Tesla Model 3 crash that resulted in explosions in Moscow last weekend. Autopilot was indeed activated during the crash and it did apply the brakes a second before the collision."

https://electrek.co/2019/08/12/tesla-au ... xplosions/

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/2018/ ... catch-fire

As I said Dax the crash in Russia might of been on autopolot, because he hacked the system... Tesla does not cover Russia for their driver assist.. Notice also this Model 3 caught on fire the air bags even exploded and the battery pack did NOT catch on fire :.
Tesla alway say when using auto pilot still watch the road, the driver confessed to be looking at the back seat when it crashed....cant fix stupidity, plus he was using software that wasn't approved for his country, double stupid, he is lucky to of got out alive....
Also it was going over 100km's and hit a stationary truck, the 2 kids in the back where unhurt and the driver had a broken leg, they also where out of the car for a long time before it caught on fire, good thing you brought this up, it shows how safe the Tesla's are....
bgrin

Now next link
Friday, January 26, 2018
so this was released when Tesla had only made about 2000 Model 3's and now they are up to 450,000 and still no fire, Sandy Munroe probably the best tear down company said the Model 3 is just about imposable to catch fire...

Yesterday CNBC reported that a number of current and former Tesla employees have confirmed that Model 3 productions problems are deeper and more persistent than has been previously reported or acknowledged by the company in its last earnings call.
The employee's are not named so it's a opinion piece and not one prediction from this article is true or came true...

Please Dax find some real evidence against the Model 3, I'm sure your savy enough to find it.
Or just admit your wrong and admit Tesla's are bloody good and very safe cars especially the Model 3's :purple

Find myself wondering if there may be a hidden collective of auto manufacturers who see the electric revolution as a threat and are working together behind the scenes to promote &/or support disinformation?


No different to any other industry, trying to protect itself from the future. Most auto manufacturers are moving towards ev's, they realise fossil fuels are finite and near the end of their life span. If they don't change they will go down with the fossil fuel ship.

Now the viability of ev's is a proven it's only fools and fan boys who are clinging to the past. Tesla like very other auto vested interest will do what ever they can to deny any short comings in their products, just as their supporters do, by denying that there is big problems with li-ion batteries and always will be. They refuse to change because li-ion are cheaper to produce, have higher densities than safe lithium chemistries and like all profit growth corporations at any cost, they will continue using li-ion bombs in their ev's until someone comes up with a cheaper better density more reliable energy storage system.

To solve the problems all they have to do is move to graphene ultra capacitors combined with lifepo4 batteries, then they'd have extremely fast charging, longer ranges and better use of regen braking. In a crash, the lifepo4 if damaged would just smoke and the capacitors would discharge harmlessly into the atmosphere, so they claim.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Feb 2020, 09:28

Sounds like ideology to me: have a heap of ultracapacitors and in a prang a HUGE electric discharge could take place.

Any vehicle that has a mass of concentrated energy in it—fuel tank, battery, capacitors—can catch fire in an accident.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Feb 2020, 07:33

Dax wrote:Typical, so deep in denial and have an excuse for everything, no different to all denialist clones, like trump with your constant fake news bullshit.

The pathetic excuse that it's in Russia, is ludicrous, it's still a tesla, it still caught fire and there was no other ignition point other than the vehicles batteries.

The only thing in a tesla model 3 and all other ev's that can catch fire without being ignited by another source of fire, is the batteries, nothing else has an ignition point and the truck didn't catch fire, which was an ICE vehicle. Thermal runaway, is when a li-ion/poly cell overheats, is shorted or damaged, causing heat to build up and catch fire. Li-ion/poly are extremely prone to overheating and catching fire, that's a well known fact and tesla uses li-ion cells, not the safe lifepo4 cells, which don't suffer thermal runaway, or over heating. The facts are and have witnessed this myself, all lifepo4 does when a cell is overcharged, is nothing and when fractured or an ignition put to them, is smoke. This is the opposite to li-ion/poly, which just catch fire and or explode. That's why I went with lifepo4 for my homes and mobile home uses. The kona has li-ion batteries, so only charge it to 3/4 full unless doing a trip beyond 300klms, that way the pack can't overheat and top it to 3/4 full every day it's used.

You can rabbit on about the number of ice vehicle fire, but there are billions of ice vehicle around the planet and they all have ignition points of fuel and batteries.

So in your expert opinion, :rofl what caused the fire in the model 3's other tesla's and all Ev fires, if not the batteries.

Have never said tesla aren't good, they are, but they have their problems and the major one is batteries, no different to other ev's that use the same lithium chemistry. Have yet to come across any ev maker that actually tells their customers how to manage their battery systems to avoid fires or explosions and extend their battery life. Even when in the EU at all the motor shows and dealers, none mentioned battery safety or how to manage them, tesla just says they are safe and that's it. Ask them anything else and all you get is a blank stare, which to me is very wrong as using proper charging and maintenance techniques in an EV, will make a huge difference to their life and safety.

When bought my kona asked them about battery charge and maintenance regimes for longevity and safety, was told to just plug them in and they will be fine.

You want go get out of being a pathetic denialist fan boy for tesla and look at the real world of Ev's, if you ever can afford to get into a decent one.

Dax you keep seaming to imply I'm saying Tesla Batteries don't catch on fire...
Yes they do , but very few and usually after horrific accidents, about 3 a year, compared to 580 car fires a day just in the USA it's not out of the norm.. Cars have a huge amount of potential energy in them and can catch fire....
Repeat the Tesla in Russia that caught on fire didn't have thermal runaway after catching on fire, which just goes to show how well the Tesla 3's are made even though the car was engulfed in flames and airbags exploding the main battery pack did not catch fire.....
Cars catch on fire all the time without going anywhere near the fuel source Dax, didn't you know that ?
Cars are full of plastic and flammable components and have a huge electrical system going through them, one spark or short out even from the 12volt batteries (yes Tesla have a 12 volt battery as well) and a fire can start.

NO tesla 3 has ever suffered thermal runaway and is now the biggest selling car in the world, as I keep repeating they use a new chemistry for the 3 and a liquid cooling and fire retardation in their packs.....
Last month even a Tesla X got split in two and didn't catch on fire, it even protected the driver and he got out of it injury free.
I know your love of Lifepo4 batteries, doesn't mean that car manufactures haven't moved on and reengineering batteries and the packs so they don't catch on fire, get with the times :)
Last year GM had to recall around 20,000 cars in Brazil because they where just catching on fire while stationary, even at the factory....Also last year they had to recall 2,000,000 trucks because their battery heater could catch the trucks on fire.... BMW in 2018 had to recall 100,000's of cars because they where catching on fire while stationary...
Repeat if a Tesla catches on fire the government bodies do a full investigation as it's new technology, so far they haven't found any fault with Tesla's and no recalls have been done regarding batteries....

275 million vehicles in the USA (car and trucks)
200,000 car fires a year
1 in 1375 vehicles in the USA catch fire per year
There are 600,000 Tesla's in the USA
Last year there where no Tesla Fires in the USA.... (however a Kona caught on fire and exploded while stationary in Canada)
in 2018 there where 3, all after high speed crashes

The numbers speak for them selves DAx
Stop trusting mainstream media and actually reserch some stuff intead of blindly believing all you read :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 19 Feb 2020, 09:56

Read yopu posts again, you claimed they didn't, not important enough to go and find them for you, as clearly you're trying to get out of your denial. facts are facts and it seems you don't know much about lithium technology.

Li-ion and li-poly cells, don't require thermal runaway to catch fire or explode, they only need a simple small fault or imbalance in the pack, especially when over 85% SOC to catch fire and that's a known fact. The can get incredibly hot when going over 85% SOC, not matter how much cooling you have

That's why tesla and others have such a heavy cooling system to control the constantly overheating pack as it discharges and that's the nature of li-ion and li-poly. It's only lifepo4 that don't suffer those problems, and very soon lithium for Ev's will go out the window, just as current solar cells may become obsolete, as will lithium for Ev's.

In Aus. they have successfully got quantum dots to produce electricity at rates close to current solar cells and they are so small, flexible and sticky, they can be used in materials and every thing else, so in the next couple of years we will see more and more Ev's covered in quantum cells and graphene capacitors.

There is also to fact, in an EV, the only ignition point in the entire vehicle, is the battery pack, nothing else will cause a fire. In an ev crash, there is a short, which flows to the battery and bingo they catch fire and the rest of the car burns. Take out the battery pack and crash the vehicle and nothing happens, but a crumpled mess.

So your ridiculous claim the batteries don't catch fire in a crash, reminds me of a god nutter, present the established facts to them and they continue denying the reality to protect their pathetic denial and you're no different with your fan boy claims. Not to worry, just grab your tesla bible and pray for the reality to go away.

I've had a cut off relay installed in my kona charger, which switches off the charge at 85% SOC, in a crash it will still catch fire because of the lithium chemistry they use, but it won't catch fire when charging or discharging, because the density is not fully used and heat is not a big problem. I did that because I know what can happen with most lithium chemistry.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Feb 2020, 10:32

Dax wrote:Read yopu posts again, you claimed they didn't, not important enough to go and find them for you, as clearly you're trying to get out of your denial. facts are facts and it seems you don't know much about lithium technology.

Li-ion and li-poly cells, don't require thermal runaway to catch fire or explode, they only need a simple small fault or imbalance in the pack, especially when over 85% SOC to catch fire and that's a known fact. The can get incredibly hot when going over 85% SOC, not matter how much cooling you have

That's why tesla and others have such a heavy cooling system to control the constantly overheating pack as it discharges and that's the nature of li-ion and li-poly. It's only lifepo4 that don't suffer those problems, and very soon lithium for Ev's will go out the window, just as current solar cells may become obsolete, as will lithium for Ev's.

In Aus. they have successfully got quantum dots to produce electricity at rates close to current solar cells and they are so small, flexible and sticky, they can be used in materials and every thing else, so in the next couple of years we will see more and more Ev's covered in quantum cells and graphene capacitors.

There is also to fact, in an EV, the only ignition point in the entire vehicle, is the battery pack, nothing else will cause a fire. In an ev crash, there is a short, which flows to the battery and bingo they catch fire and the rest of the car burns. Take out the battery pack and crash the vehicle and nothing happens, but a crumpled mess.

So your ridiculous claim the batteries don't catch fire in a crash, reminds me of a god nutter, present the established facts to them and they continue denying the reality to protect their pathetic denial and you're no different with your fan boy claims. Not to worry, just grab your tesla bible and pray for the reality to go away.

I've had a cut off relay installed in my kona charger, which switches off the charge at 85% SOC, in a crash it will still catch fire because of the lithium chemistry they use, but it won't catch fire when charging or discharging, because the density is not fully used and heat is not a big problem. I did that because I know what can happen with most lithium chemistry.

I have NEVER stated Tesla don't catch on fire from Thermal Runaway Dax... Ever
What I have said is the new chemistry and battery pack on the Tesla 3 has never had a Battery pack catch on fire, even when the car itself caught on fire....
You forget EV's have a separate 12 volt battery just like any other car and these can start shorts and fires.....
I suppose the energy in the actual pack could catch the car on fire as well if there was a short... Plenty in a car to catch on fire....
Most modern cars are full of plastics and flammable materials....
The whole internal lining is flammable plastic, the roof, the seats, the dash, frunk and trunk, all the air bags, are you trying to tell us plastic doesn't catch on fire ?

Lifepro4 if it could be used by car manufactures they would of done it, the chemistry just isn't right for their requirements.

Shame you didn't get a Tesla you can program it for maximum charge and it wont go past that amount :) wouldn't of had to install a relay switch.
Does the relay switch ruin your warrantee ?

Out of interest what does Hyundai do for their $180 set price service ? wouldn't imagine much to be looked at... I guess you will need to do it to keep it under warrantee..
Most dealers will go broke if they cant service cars.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 19 Feb 2020, 11:12

https://insideevs.com/news/399122/tesla ... ling-tree/

We're talking about two Model X's, a storm, a towering oak tree, and eight lives saved.
Laurence Sanderson, his wife, and their three children were driving in a Tesla Model X on their way to Dorset for vacation. Bomb cyclone Storm Dennis uprooted a 400-year-old oak tree in Devon and sent it crashing down toward the Tesla. Reportedly, the SUV's automatic emergency braking system kicked in and saved them.
The crazier part here is that another Tesla Model X was traveling toward the Sandersons when the tree fell. Its standard safety technology also reportedly reacted and saved all occupants.

Sanderson told Mirror:

''My wife is a bit battered and has two black eyes, a bump on the head and bruising to her chest but apart from that we escaped unscathed.
''We were driving along and out of the corner of my eye I saw the tree coming down. The car was on Autopilot and the emergency breaking kicked in.
''It was chaos with smoke coming from the car and people shouting to get out. People from other cars came to help get the kids out. It was an amazing response.
''Power lines came down and there were live wires at the back of the car so we were getting everyone to safety while being careful of them.
''My wife thought she was going to die when she saw the tree fall. I can't believe we're all still alive. Elon Musk has done us proud.''

As all of this was happening, Josh Whitelock was approaching the scene from the other direction. He had two passengers in his Tesla Model X. He shared:
''I was on Autopilot driving home when I saw a flash from the power line which lit up the tree as it fell. We stopped suddenly. There was a loud crack and then the sound of metal on metal.
''I was expecting to turn around and see my girlfriend and her mother impaled by branches but incredibly that wasn't the case. They were both ok apart from a bit of whiplash. It was a miracle we all survived."

Notice no fires... Seriously though what are the odds of 2 tesla X's going opposite directions hitting the same tree... Some weird things happen... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 20 Feb 2020, 06:01

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/bl ... ince-2010/
Lithium-Ion Battery Cell Densities Have Almost Tripled Since 2010

Battery energy density is the amount of energy that can be stored in the same amount of weight. Think about it as the amount of range that can be extracted from the same 500 kilogram pack. As energy density increases, more energy can be extracted from a battery pack of the same weight. “Battery energy densities keep getting better,” Colin McKerracher, Head of Advanced Transport at BloombergNEF, said. “They’ve almost tripled at the cell level since 2010.”

These improvements are staggering and have paved the way for an electrified future. As energy densities improve, longer range electric vehicles make their way to the market without the need for physically larger, heavier packs. This trend can be seen in the Tesla Model S, which came to market with a ~250 mile range per charge. The most recent Model S with its Long Range Plus battery pack can achieve 390 miles of range per charge. It can also be seen with the longer range the Nissan LEAF has gained continuously since 2011, going from 73 miles of range back then to 215 miles in 2020 (nearly a tripling, incidentally).

Even better is the price decrease
The Average EV pack price was $1183 USD for kilowatt hour, now it's just $135 per KWH a 87% decrease...
There are no reasons the batteries will stop getting denser and cheaper as well.
Tesla is reported to be very close to $100 per KWH in their packs and in a few months will be having a battery day and excepted to release new battery tech about 30% better than now.

SO basically this means the same car with a 60KWH battery in 2010 the battery would of weighed 600 KG and cost $71,000
Today that same 60KWH pack weighs 200kg and costs $8,100 also takes a third of the space....

A electric small car today with this size battery will do around 400KM's
If the Equivalent ICE got 8 Litres per 100 km's then it would use 32 Litres of fuel plus around 30kg's for the fuel tank so 60 KG
Also a Combustion Motor weighs a lot more than a electric one, The weight of Batteries is becoming a non issue even now and in the near future wont even be considered... :purple
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