Electric Vehicles this week

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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 31 Jan 2020, 09:54

HBS Guy wrote:For big planes electric flight will never be a reality save. . .

An electromagnetic accelerator, plane moves into the start (breech?) and the electromagnets accelerate the plane more and more until ROTATE! and the plane flies up. The huge expenditure of jet fuel in take off eliminated.

Or a scenario from WWII: huge battery packs under the wings get the big jet airborne, then are jettisoned! Need some pretty robust battery construction to deliver heavy current and survive the fall back to earth. :roll :bgrin (WWII for long flights external tanks were fitted to the bombers and fighters, jettisoned when empty.)

Internally, very fast trains could replace airplanes, perhaps.

Early days Monk... Jet fuel is just stored energy..... Batteries are just stored energy..... They are already working on electrical powered jets.
It's only been a few years we have been developing higher density batteries, pretty well since computers and phones have gotten small enough to carry...


The 777 fully loaded is about 300 tonnes with 181 tonnes of fuel..
so the goal is to make 181 tonnes of battery do the same job as Kerosene, Probably even use more weight because the batteries themselves can be structural, where liquid fuel needs a lot of support.....

Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well.. A plane travelling 30,000 feet above the cloud layer with less atmosphere and greater sun intensity will make quite a bit of energy during the flight..... It might not be much but with planes every kilo makes a difference.

There already is a solar plane that can fly 24 hours a day as the sun not only powers it during the day but charges batteries so it can keep going at night, It only travels about 100km's a hour but as I said it's early days.

Another thing to consider planes can be smaller , long as they have good range because the cost recharging a battery will be far less than refuelling a plane..
Economics will come into play as well.. You can take a electric plane that goes half the speed for Half the price of a Fossil Fuel driven plane , Inconvenience with less costs will be the balancing point...
For smaller trips say Brisbane to Sydney if it costs $100 a trip in a jet and takes 1.5 hours compared to $50 in a Electric plane and takes 3 hours what will people choose....

Of course electric planes will only get better and better where the Fossil Fuel ones are stagnant....The first 747 was 54 years ago and really jet planes haven't gotten any better..... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 31 Jan 2020, 11:07

DonDeeHippy wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:For big planes electric flight will never be a reality save. . .

An electromagnetic accelerator, plane moves into the start (breech?) and the electromagnets accelerate the plane more and more until ROTATE! and the plane flies up. The huge expenditure of jet fuel in take off eliminated.

Or a scenario from WWII: huge battery packs under the wings get the big jet airborne, then are jettisoned! Need some pretty robust battery construction to deliver heavy current and survive the fall back to earth. :roll :bgrin (WWII for long flights external tanks were fitted to the bombers and fighters, jettisoned when empty.)

Internally, very fast trains could replace airplanes, perhaps.

Early days Monk... Jet fuel is just stored energy..... Batteries are just stored energy..... They are already working on electrical powered jets.
It's only been a few years we have been developing higher density batteries, pretty well since computers and phones have gotten small enough to carry...


The 777 fully loaded is about 300 tonnes with 181 tonnes of fuel..
so the goal is to make 181 tonnes of battery do the same job as Kerosene, Probably even use more weight because the batteries themselves can be structural, where liquid fuel needs a lot of support.....

Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well.. A plane travelling 30,000 feet above the cloud layer with less atmosphere and greater sun intensity will make quite a bit of energy during the flight..... It might not be much but with planes every kilo makes a difference.

There already is a solar plane that can fly 24 hours a day as the sun not only powers it during the day but charges batteries so it can keep going at night, It only travels about 100km's a hour but as I said it's early days.

Another thing to consider planes can be smaller , long as they have good range because the cost recharging a battery will be far less than refuelling a plane..
Economics will come into play as well.. You can take a electric plane that goes half the speed for Half the price of a Fossil Fuel driven plane , Inconvenience with less costs will be the balancing point...
For smaller trips say Brisbane to Sydney if it costs $100 a trip in a jet and takes 1.5 hours compared to $50 in a Electric plane and takes 3 hours what will people choose....

Of course electric planes will only get better and better where the Fossil Fuel ones are stagnant....The first 747 was 54 years ago and really jet planes haven't gotten any better..... :purple


The yanks already have a plane which can fly for years without recharging, it looks like a small space shuttle, uses fossil fuels to get it off the ground, then runs on batteries and very advanced solar cells. From the whispers you hear, it seems they are close to getting it into the air using electrical power only and then it will be able to fly for ever. They have tested electrical jets and proved them, so it's just a matter of time before they get it completely autonomous from fossil fuels and there are number of places they are testing electric jets.

Jet planes, like cars, are really less efficient than 7 decades ago. One of my first cars got over 40 miles to the gallon, my Fx Holden got over 30 mpg, now they claim victory when they achieve 20 mpg and cars are much lighter than back then. Today when a car has a crash, it crumples into a small mess, back when I was young, when you had a crash you bounced off the other car and the injuries were cause by going through windscreens and being thrown from the vehicle. During my hair raising days, my ford twin spinner hit a gutter and rolled, it landed back on its wheels and continued driving whilst everyone else in the car sorted out themselves and things that had been thrown around, like long necks. The outcome was a dented roof and badly scratched paint work, the roof popped out and hand painted the body.

That's why I drive an 80 series cruiser, they were the last of the strong cruisers and cars, the new ones crumple and collapse.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 31 Jan 2020, 11:35

I know that's why I have the Cybertruck on Order that bad boy will never crumple, just the Princess wagons all the other guys will be driving..... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Lols » 31 Jan 2020, 14:05

I have an electric golf buggy which I love, it’s non polluting and quiet. I take visitors for a zoom around and they ask is it petrol :roll no, I say, it’s electric, runs on batteries. And it takes a while to comprehend. But many people, I believe, have no idea about electric vehicles, probably never encountered one to be educated about it.
My hubby experimented with the first buggy we had, by putting solar panels on roof to keep batteries charged.
But you know, if we have a huge solar flare, it’s goodbye to anything electric.
Only thing we have that will work above all that, is this diesel Lister with tray, it’s got a wind up bar in the front!
It’s ancient but still goes well!
Got to love old tech eh!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby johnsmith » 31 Jan 2020, 14:56

DonDeeHippy wrote:Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well..


camping last weekend, the guy next to me had on his ute a single solar panel that looked like a rubber mat. It was no more than 2 mm thick, and flexible. It wasn't that big either. He has a small battery attached and with it he ran his fridge 24/7 and his camp lights at night. I'd never seen them that thin before..
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Jan 2020, 15:12

Yes, I have mentioned electric planes before. . . but there are ways to get the huge power consumption of takeoff reduced. . .and similar can be done to slow the plane on landing. That will make electric mass transport easier to arrive at.

Internal combustion engines, carnot cycle engines, cannot get as much as 30% efficiency (maybe 35, this is stuff from physics lectures way back in 1960s.) To do with temperature at combustion minus temperature of exhausted gas. Improvements like moving from cast iron blocks to alloy blocks help as Force = Mass x Acceleration or Force/mass = acceleration so reduce mass increase acceleration but do not affect the actual efficiency of an IC engine. Electric engines have efficiencies in the 90% range (LED lights 98% efficient, incandescent like 2% efficient, rest makes heat.)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 31 Jan 2020, 15:39

HBS Guy wrote:Yes, I have mentioned electric planes before. . . but there are ways to get the huge power consumption of takeoff reduced. . .and similar can be done to slow the plane on landing. That will make electric mass transport easier to arrive at.

Internal combustion engines, carnot cycle engines, cannot get as much as 30% efficiency (maybe 35, this is stuff from physics lectures way back in 1960s.) To do with temperature at combustion minus temperature of exhausted gas. Improvements like moving from cast iron blocks to alloy blocks help as Force = Mass x Acceleration or Force/mass = acceleration so reduce mass increase acceleration but do not affect the actual efficiency of an IC engine. Electric engines have efficiencies in the 90% range (LED lights 98% efficient, incandescent like 2% efficient, rest makes heat.)


When in the EU a few weeks ago and discussing electric planes when my friend was doing due diligence on his new plane, asked about how they would slow them down. Was told regenerative braking would be used, in prop planes, they reverse the props and that produces drag and energy production. When asked about the electric jets, got the same answer with a big smile, as they have yet to develop that aspect of the electric jet engine and on small jest, it's not necessary.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 31 Jan 2020, 15:44

johnsmith wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well..


camping last weekend, the guy next to me had on his ute a single solar panel that looked like a rubber mat. It was no more than 2 mm thick, and flexible. It wasn't that big either. He has a small battery attached and with it he ran his fridge 24/7 and his camp lights at night. I'd never seen them that thin before..


Flexible solar panels have been around for a number of years, sadly they don't tend to last that long for some reason. Have never used one myself, but have run across a few who have and they all have the same complaint, they fail after awhile. On an RV forum I'm a moderator on, there have been many discussions about the viability of flexible panels. If they worked properly, many people would be using them, including me and would quickly change my cruiser to electric with panels all over it.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby johnsmith » 31 Jan 2020, 15:59

Dax wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well..


camping last weekend, the guy next to me had on his ute a single solar panel that looked like a rubber mat. It was no more than 2 mm thick, and flexible. It wasn't that big either. He has a small battery attached and with it he ran his fridge 24/7 and his camp lights at night. I'd never seen them that thin before..


Flexible solar panels have been around for a number of years, sadly they don't tend to last that long for some reason. Have never used one myself, but have run across a few who have and they all have the same complaint, they fail after awhile. On an RV forum I'm a moderator on, there have been many discussions about the viability of flexible panels. If they worked properly, many people would be using them, including me and would quickly change my cruiser to electric with panels all over it.


OK. I'd heard of them, but never come across one until then. The owner seemed very pleased with it, Having said that, I don't think he'd had it very long but i'm not sure. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to set up a ute they would have improved.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 03 Feb 2020, 10:28

https://newatlas.com/ree-modular-mobili ... orm/60486/

A Tel Aviv-based company is making a push to revolutionize the architecture of future automobiles. REE has developed a massively modular platform that squeezes the entire motor, transmission, steering, suspension, brakes and more into the wheel bay, enabling a full range of vehicle types.

What's really interesting is their take on Hub motors and their drawbacks...

Is this anything like a hub motor? Absolutely not, says Barel: "Hub motors have been around for a while, but according to our beliefs, they're not suitable for automotive for three main reasons. One: they're very prone to damage, sitting at the wheel. Two: you have to spin them at the same RPM of the wheels, meaning low RPM and high torques – which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. And thirdly, they increase the unsprung mass of the vehicle – which you don't want to do. We're dramatically reducing the unsprung mass. The configuration that we've built, most of the components come after the suspension.

Why use transmissions instead of the direct drive many electric vehicles are using today? The answer is efficiency. Low-torque, high-RPM electric motors, says Barel, give better efficiency, and running them through a super-compact transmission allows high-torque, low-RPM output through the wheels.

I'd never considered that Hub Motors can only go the RPM of the wheel, Very interesting they have made such small lightweight transmissions… Definitely a company to keep a eye on.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Feb 2020, 10:57

DonDeeHippy wrote:I know that's why I have the Cybertruck on Order that bad boy will never crumple, just the Princess wagons all the other guys will be driving..... :purple


Ummmm, if the crumpling doesn’t absorb the energy on impact what is going to do that? Your body hurtling through the windscreen?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 03 Feb 2020, 12:08

HBS Guy wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:I know that's why I have the Cybertruck on Order that bad boy will never crumple, just the Princess wagons all the other guys will be driving..... :purple


Ummmm, if the crumpling doesn’t absorb the energy on impact what is going to do that? Your body hurtling through the windscreen?

That is the question will Tesla take advantage of the lax safety rules for Utes over there, or will they crumple or figure out another way to make it safe.... Be interesting to see what will happen... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 03 Feb 2020, 12:57

DonDeeHippy wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:I know that's why I have the Cybertruck on Order that bad boy will never crumple, just the Princess wagons all the other guys will be driving..... :purple


Ummmm, if the crumpling doesn’t absorb the energy on impact what is going to do that? Your body hurtling through the windscreen?

That is the question will Tesla take advantage of the lax safety rules for Utes over there, or will they crumple or figure out another way to make it safe.... Be interesting to see what will happen... :purple

No, I think you misdefined the question being put to you ... :WTF
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 03 Feb 2020, 13:35

Bongalong wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:I know that's why I have the Cybertruck on Order that bad boy will never crumple, just the Princess wagons all the other guys will be driving..... :purple


Ummmm, if the crumpling doesn’t absorb the energy on impact what is going to do that? Your body hurtling through the windscreen?

That is the question will Tesla take advantage of the lax safety rules for Utes over there, or will they crumple or figure out another way to make it safe.... Be interesting to see what will happen... :purple

No, I think you misdefined the question being put to you ... :WTF

How so Bongy… Either they wont crumple and be dangerous to the occupants, or they will design them somehow to crumple or they will not crumple and figure out another way to make them safe....what did I miss ?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 03 Feb 2020, 15:48

Bro, are you OK?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Feb 2020, 21:31

25 airbags just for the driver?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 04 Feb 2020, 06:01

I was thinking about it, I suppose the chassis could crumple and the body panels overlap and go back, Luckily I can let Tesla's Engineers worry about the problem and wait to see what they come up with..
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 04 Feb 2020, 07:55

https://insideevs.com/news/396177/globa ... mber-2019/

Around 2.2 million passenger plug-in car sales globally in 2019 translates into an average of 2.5% market share (1 in 40 new cars).
The global plug-in electric car sales slightly declined in December, although the past month was the third-best ever, which makes us cautiously optimistic.
According to the EV Sales Blog, some over 279,000 plug-in cars were sold in December, 4% less than a year ago.
See more of our sales reports for December 2019 here.
While the last couple of months were challenging due to significant drops in China, the overall result for 2019 is positive: almost 2,210,000 (up 10% year-over-year).
Moreover, the average plug-in market share improved from 2.1% to 2.5% (or 1 in 40 new cars).
Most of the volume comes from all-electric cars (74%!), which also improved its position by 5% year-over-year, while plug-in hybrids (26%) declined.

The Tesla Model 3 set new all-time sales records: 53,742 for a single month and over 300,000 for the year (300,885 according to Tesla).
The second-best last year (111,047), with also a personal monthly record of 21,963, is the BAIC EU-Series - the first non-Tesla model to exceed 20,000 in a single month.
Interestingly, the Nissan LEAF (5,414 in December and 69,873 YTD) managed to secure the third step of the podium, ahead of the weak BYD Yuan (1,434 in December and 67,839 YTD). The LEAF sales shrunk in 2019 by 20% though.

The article also has lots of pretty graphs for the more visual of us....

10 years ago Electric Vehicle sales where 2000 for the year, now they are 2,210,000

Unfortunately Australia is way behind the rest of the world, however last year with the Hyundai Kona and the Tesla 3 being sold it would of dramatically increased ,at least 300% I'd say, I saw a report that 8 new electric vehicles will be released in Aus this year.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Feb 2020, 10:57

Because they are fairly small proportion of the whole vehicle sales worldwide numbers can fluctuate just by chance—somebody releases a brand new ICE vehicle and gathers the attention of those looking to buy a car and get carried away and buy the ICE car, etc.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 04 Feb 2020, 12:57

HBS Guy wrote:Because they are fairly small proportion of the whole vehicle sales worldwide numbers can fluctuate just by chance—somebody releases a brand new ICE vehicle and gathers the attention of those looking to buy a car and get carried away and buy the ICE car, etc.

Fortunately ICE vehicles are loosing their sparkle as a new sensation... EV's are taking over as the wish for cars.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Feb 2020, 13:22

They are but numbers will fluctuate up and down around a steadily climbing sales volume, much like temperatures are doing now.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 04 Feb 2020, 18:17

HBS Guy wrote:Because they are fairly small proportion of the whole vehicle sales worldwide numbers can fluctuate just by chance—somebody releases a brand new ICE vehicle and gathers the attention of those looking to buy a car and get carried away and buy the ICE car, etc.

Nice comment :bike :bike
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Feb 2020, 19:17

Yeah or Christmass is nearly here so put off buying a new car until after the holiday period. Etc.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby pinkeye » 04 Feb 2020, 20:46

DonDeeHippy wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:For big planes electric flight will never be a reality save. . .

An electromagnetic accelerator, plane moves into the start (breech?) and the electromagnets accelerate the plane more and more until ROTATE! and the plane flies up. The huge expenditure of jet fuel in take off eliminated.

Or a scenario from WWII: huge battery packs under the wings get the big jet airborne, then are jettisoned! Need some pretty robust battery construction to deliver heavy current and survive the fall back to earth. :roll :bgrin (WWII for long flights external tanks were fitted to the bombers and fighters, jettisoned when empty.)

Internally, very fast trains could replace airplanes, perhaps.

Early days Monk... Jet fuel is just stored energy..... Batteries are just stored energy..... They are already working on electrical powered jets.
It's only been a few years we have been developing higher density batteries, pretty well since computers and phones have gotten small enough to carry...


The 777 fully loaded is about 300 tonnes with 181 tonnes of fuel..
so the goal is to make 181 tonnes of battery do the same job as Kerosene, Probably even use more weight because the batteries themselves can be structural, where liquid fuel needs a lot of support.....

Solar panels as they get better will make a difference as well.. A plane travelling 30,000 feet above the cloud layer with less atmosphere and greater sun intensity will make quite a bit of energy during the flight..... It might not be much but with planes every kilo makes a difference.

There already is a solar plane that can fly 24 hours a day as the sun not only powers it during the day but charges batteries so it can keep going at night, It only travels about 100km's a hour but as I said it's early days.

Another thing to consider planes can be smaller , long as they have good range because the cost recharging a battery will be far less than refuelling a plane..
Economics will come into play as well.. You can take a electric plane that goes half the speed for Half the price of a Fossil Fuel driven plane , Inconvenience with less costs will be the balancing point...
For smaller trips say Brisbane to Sydney if it costs $100 a trip in a jet and takes 1.5 hours compared to $50 in a Electric plane and takes 3 hours what will people choose....

Of course electric planes will only get better and better where the Fossil Fuel ones are stagnant....The first 747 was 54 years ago and really jet planes haven't gotten any better..... :purple


I agree with you DDH.. it is all about the will to innovation. Over the years, apparently, many improvements have been locked out
( Patent) and mothballed.

Those folk who get huge bonuses every yr for poisoning us all, in one way or another, do not want change and have been trying to extend their place in the Sun.. ( excuse the Pun) by stifling better ideas, because PROFIT is the motive, the Motif , the right down to the minutiae.. depths.. it's all about Money and Power.

We are just mugs that CONSUME.

You'd think these rich cunts would pay us better. THEN we could consume more... :roll
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 05 Feb 2020, 05:04

tesla stock prices are going nuts
Friday $650 USD
Monday $780 USD
Tues $930 USD
Panasonic who supplies batteries for Tesla at the Big Tesla Factory have finally posted a profit on the Multi Billion dollar Project.
They figure that is what is pushing the price up... Weather it collapses or not is another question, just interesting to see Shareholder confidence is inflating it's worth
now Tesla is Worth 167 Billion USD
VAG is worth 87 Billion
ford is 34 billion
GM is 50 billion
Toyota 228 Billion
Considering Tesla shares where $180 in the beginning of June 2019 it's a amazing turnaround in just 8 months...
Those that have shorted Tesla stocks must be horrified with the $280 increase in 2 days.... :purple
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