Electric Vehicles this week

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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 16 Jan 2020, 15:56

Dax wrote:As usual, you didn't read my post regarding the satellite system and autonomy or is your programming so strong, you refuse to see reality. Space X who I admire for the way they have gone about entering space by recovering and re-using the rockets, is just contributing to the problem with their thousand so satellites. In my short experience in being a passenger in a model S in the EU, is they do you use GPS and the internet satellite system, it's what they rely upon to get around the country and update their software.


Yes Tesla car's do send information back to base to help autonomy get better, they don't use satellites though it's just plain Wi Fi,,, for now anyway until Space x gets the satellites up....
This is only until the software gets good enough to be autonomous once it is good enough it wont need any internet connection or GPS just it's onboard computer and a download of a map where it wants to go :)

How does Autopilot work?
Built on a deep neural network, Autopilot uses cameras, ultrasonic sensors and radar to see and sense the environment around the car. This robust sensor and camera suite provides drivers with an awareness of their surroundings that a driver alone would not otherwise have. A powerful onboard computer processes these inputs in a matter of milliseconds to help make your driving safer and less stressful.

The powerful onboard computer is also doubled so if one fails the other will take over, if the worse case happens and GPS goes down and both computers fail, the Tesla's are hardwired to pull over safely and allow manual take over....
You only need a pre downloaded map and no GPS or Satellites for it to work..... However with the Ten's of thousands of Space X satellites that are going to be in the sky it shouldn't be a problem even if GPS fails as triangulating shouldn't be hard... :)
The reality is space is huge.. not only is it wide it is deep.... Hundreds of Kilometres deep and hundreds of thousands of Kilometres wide, At the Moment there is not need for Satellites to be with 100 kilometres of each other, if by some miracle 2 happen to crash into each other how will that make a spontaneous effect Dax (see i did read your post) :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 17 Jan 2020, 08:31

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/16/6- ... -per-mile/

6.4× More Accidents In Average US Car Than In Tesla With Tesla Autopilot On (Per Mile)

On its website, Tesla states that, “In the 4th quarter, we have registered one accident for every 3.07 million miles driven in which the drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.10 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.63 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States, there is an automobile accident crash every 479,000 miles.”

Tesla's Navigation systems are also doubled up so if one fails the other will take over and let the customer know to fix their car..
If my some majic both computer systems fail the Tesla is hard wired to slow down and pull over... Although as the driver is supposed to still be in complete control of the car this wont really be a issue until the Tesla's go Autonomous...

Now that Tesla have almost 1,000,000 cars on the road and they all communicate with the base, there are very interesting stats on how safe this tech is :)

Even without Autopilot and just the active features the Tesla are 4 times less likely to crash....Every car manufactured should be hauled over the coals for not doing the same thing with their vehicals….

1200 deaths a year from car accidents in Australia that's almost 4 deaths a day...... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Jan 2020, 08:50

Artifical intelligence is just about here commercially. That will boost the safety of autonomous driving.

There is one problem: apparently the radar can’t distinguish between a pancake and a stationery truck directly in front of the Tesla (or other radar equipped vehicle. I watch YouTubes by a Swedish trucker who drives a Volvo with radar warning of obstacles and one time a flat balloon on the road triggered the radar warning/braking.)

I installed a dashcam on my Mazda and it warns me if I am getting close to or across lane markings and if I am getting closer to the car in front: gets to be a bit of a pain in busy traffic but it has encouraged me to concentrate on keeping a suitable space behind the vehicle in front,
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 17 Jan 2020, 08:57

HBS Guy wrote:Artifical intelligence is just about here commercially. That will boost the safety of autonomous driving.

There is one problem: apparently the radar can’t distinguish between a pancake and a stationery truck directly in front of the Tesla (or other radar equipped vehicle. I watch YouTubes by a Swedish trucker who drives a Volvo with radar warning of obstacles and one time a flat balloon on the road triggered the radar warning/braking.)

I installed a dashcam on my Mazda and it warns me if I am getting close to or across lane markings and if I am getting closer to the car in front: gets to be a bit of a pain in busy traffic but it has encouraged me to concentrate on keeping a suitable space behind the vehicle in front,

yes but it's 8 camera's and 4 ultra sound units can :)
They work in Unison

The latest update can now distinguish construction sites, flagging and Witches hats and temporary posts...The neural network just keeps getting better at recognising objects and deciding what to do when it encounters them :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Jan 2020, 11:20

Good to hear.

I would use the autonomous to sit back and eat and/or drink something but never take eyes of the road for more than a second. Wonder how it would have coped with the lady cop directing us to a long detour like happened on the way back last Saturday? Driver input required I’d say :bgrin
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 18 Jan 2020, 10:44

Stick to your fantasy of autonomy of vehicles and other forms of automation, but you forget one thing. The more they automate everything, the less jobs there will be and that brings many other problems into the world. The major super markets are moving to remove checkouts, banks are pushing for a cash free society as fees and charges rise, with many big business now charging people to tap and go. Have any of you noticed the interest debit fees banks are slowly introducing, which means they are now charging you for earning interest on your money. Not long and we will see how your enthusiasm is when you no longer control anything in your life, including your money and vehicle, when the government or big business, decides you have failed in something and shuts your vehicle down. Or there is a major glitch in the system and suddenly vehicles start running off the road and running into each other.

As usual fools never think through to the big picture, they just follow the misleading propaganda, thinking they will benefit, When if they looked at the reality of the world, they would see they are losing everything bit by bit daily. But fools will be fools and deserve to be taken to the cleaners, that's what clones are for, economic cannon fodder.

By the way, this is where Ev's are heading, along with adding ultra capacitors to the system. Saw a couple of Vehicles at a motor show in the EU, which had solar cells included in the roof of the car. Add the new re-gen braking and its not unreasonable to see EV's will soon be autonomous from charge stations, other than to top up for very long non stop journeys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlcYr1u7FfY
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Jan 2020, 10:52

I mentioned autonomy of vehicles would lead to loss of jobs. Doubt haulage and taxi companies give a shit tho.

IA, quantum computing etc there is only one way it will go.

I wait in line 15 minutes rather than use a self checkout, plenty use the self checkout tho so they are not going away nor will prices at the supermarket drop because of wages saved.

Only an ideological fool would ignore this trend!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 18 Jan 2020, 15:12

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Bongalong wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Fully autonomous is the future, no doubt about that at all.

Cars will be able to be driven much faster, shortening journeys—big bucks to taxis, couriers, freight companies etc. The driver will only be needed at either end. Car trips will be safer too.

What happens when cab drivers go extinct?

I'm not sure society could handle that?

Won't need Taxi drivers, will just have autonomous Taxi cars, you book with a app and the car drives to where you are and takes you where you want :)
Tesla have made a Network up for when it is available,if you own one you can go through it and rent your car out, so your car will make money when you don't need it... that's if you want it isn't compulsory. Every Model 3 they have leased out will have to be returned and become a part of their network, , so in about 2 years Tesla will start getting their second hand cars ready for it... They must be pretty confident it will happen by then....
:purple

So what kind of work do taxi drivers do instead?

the same work horse drivers did 100 years ago
Should we take away every bobcat, bulldozer and front end loader away because to the millions of jobs they took away from men with shovels ?
move with the times or be left behind, when we work out better ways to do stuff, it is what it is Bongy ;)

It's not that simple: people moved more into services when robots first came in but now with ai that is no longer the optiion: THERE IS A TSUNAMI AHEAD AND THE PRICE OF GOLD WILL KEEP GOING UP!
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Jan 2020, 17:03

Actually, forgot a couple YouTubes, by an English trucker this time: truck could see roundabouts and speed signs and slow down of its own accord, choosing a speed to go around the roundabout safely.

Automation of vehicles is coming.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 18 Jan 2020, 17:38

HBS Guy wrote:Actually, forgot a couple YouTubes, by an English trucker this time: truck could see roundabouts and speed signs and slow down of its own accord, choosing a speed to go around the roundabout safely.

Automation of vehicles is coming.

How well does it take roundabouts?
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Jan 2020, 17:47

Very well, the driver never touched the brake pedal.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 21 Jan 2020, 12:47

This article shows what happens as vehicles become more autonomous, no matter what all the drop kicks claim, autonomy will create more crashes and headaches than benefits. It will also destroy jobs and as no one has come up with any ideas of how to overcome the growing jobless and underemployment. Won't matter in a couple of years, everyone will be so desperate to survives as the ecology totally collapses in Aus, all we will have is autonomous anarchy and social attrition.

Tesla like all large companies is one denial of what its cars are becoming with their drive to autonomy and central control, coffins.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireSto ... e-68411483
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 21 Jan 2020, 12:54

Garbage. None of that is confirmed as the article makes clear.

Fight it if you must, automation will only increase.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 21 Jan 2020, 15:45

Dax wrote:This article shows what happens as vehicles become more autonomous, no matter what all the drop kicks claim, autonomy will create more crashes and headaches than benefits. It will also destroy jobs and as no one has come up with any ideas of how to overcome the growing jobless and underemployment. Won't matter in a couple of years, everyone will be so desperate to survives as the ecology totally collapses in Aus, all we will have is autonomous anarchy and social attrition.

Tesla like all large companies is one denial of what its cars are becoming with their drive to autonomy and central control, coffins.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireSto ... e-68411483

The company also claimed the man who filed a petition with federal safety officials is a short-seller of Tesla shares, referring to investors who borrow shares in a company's stock and try to profit by replacing them after the share price falls.
n Friday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it would look into a petition filed by Brian Sparks of Berkeley, California, and decide whether to open a formal investigation.
The Man also doesn't own a Tesla.....

Sparks said Tesla owners have lodged 127 complaints with the government, covering 110 crashes and 52 injuries.
The highway agency has yet to verify the complaints. The people who filed complaints were not identified in NHTSA's database.

So the guy is full of shit, is losing money with the stock market with Tesla, Doesn't own a Tesla, no one he mentioned has even made a complaint…. Just so you know if the guy can get Tesla shares to go down he will make money....

I don't know how you get anything about autonomous driving from this...…… Toyota had a problem with Accelerating and paid 1 billion dollars in fee's ….

People hit the accelerator instead of the brake pedal and panic and press down harder, happens hundreds of times every day...…
The best thing in a Tesla it will have a log of what happened....
If someone says they pressed down the brake but pressed the accelerator the Logs will tell what has happened, so far no report of this has been true.

Tesla also have hardwired the brake so if it is pressed the accelerator wont work, just as another precaution...

Dax if your going to put up stuff that's to prove autonomy is bad at least pick a article that is about that
Yup and all those peoples lives that Autonomy will save will just mean more jobs to find... what a horrible thing to happen :bgrin
Last edited by DonDeeHippy on 21 Jan 2020, 15:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 21 Jan 2020, 15:48

DonDeeHippy wrote:https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/16/6-4x-more-accidents-in-average-us-car-than-in-tesla-with-tesla-autopilot-on-per-mile/

6.4× More Accidents In Average US Car Than In Tesla With Tesla Autopilot On (Per Mile)

On its website, Tesla states that, “In the 4th quarter, we have registered one accident for every 3.07 million miles driven in which the drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.10 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.63 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States, there is an automobile accident crash every 479,000 miles.”

Tesla's Navigation systems are also doubled up so if one fails the other will take over and let the customer know to fix their car..
If my some majic both computer systems fail the Tesla is hard wired to slow down and pull over... Although as the driver is supposed to still be in complete control of the car this wont really be a issue until the Tesla's go Autonomous...

Now that Tesla have almost 1,000,000 cars on the road and they all communicate with the base, there are very interesting stats on how safe this tech is :)

Even without Autopilot and just the active features the Tesla are 4 times less likely to crash....Every car manufactured should be hauled over the coals for not doing the same thing with their vehicals….

1200 deaths a year from car accidents in Australia that's almost 4 deaths a day...... :purple


Just thought you might want to reread this Dax as Autonomous and safety features makes the Tesla VERY safe.... :purple
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 22 Jan 2020, 05:48

https://insideevs.com/news/394068/jason ... mpossible/

“I've done hardware and software design/engineering for nearly two decades. For clarification, I don't look at what are officially considered ‘EDRs.’ I decode the proprietary logging format Tesla uses, which contains far more information than is available from the SRS EDR data. However, there's no report or anything. It's raw data. For the majority of the cases I've examined, I've agreed not to share the data publicly. For the few without an explicit agreement, some discretion is at least implied.
To that end, I've examined logs from 29 accident vehicles to date, 19 of which were third-party unintended acceleration related – several for direct customers, over a dozen for a particular insurance company. One hundred percent of them were pedal misapplication. The driver was pressing the accelerator pedal commanding the acceleration, and then in most cases, eventually braked and stopped the car. In two cases, the driver actually never touched the brake, but the obstacle or airbag deployment prevented further movement of the vehicle.”

“The drive units contain at least three distinct pieces of hardware that all simultaneously crosscheck any pedal input. The pedal hardware itself contains two independent sensors that must agree as well. This way, only a genuine pedal input will cause torque to be commanded. There are additional crosschecks of this in other modules as well, such as the ABS.
While Tesla is far from perfect, the powertrain control setup, specifically related to these sudden acceleration claims, is something they deserve a lot of credit on. It's a solid system, with a ton of thought put into how to make it as safe as possible. There's plenty of things to call out where Tesla has done something outright stupid, or dare I say it unethical, over the years... But this just isn't one of them. They've done this right.”

“The autopilot system has a method for commanding acceleration/deceleration without pedal input. However, these commands are in the form of ‘I'd like to be going this speed, and I'd like to get to that speed at X rate.’ X, in this case, is quite lethargic when it comes to acceleration. For deceleration – as in, emergency braking – there is no limit. But for acceleration, the limits are quite sane. Even at maximum possible digital command, no one would consider this acceleration ‘sudden.’ If the autopilot system attempts to command acceleration beyond these hard limits, one or more of no less than six different systems will step in and intervene to disable the system entirely.”

“The brakes on the Tesla are standard hydraulic brakes. The same as used in millions of vehicles worldwide. Regardless of any acceleration commanded, the brakes are capable of overpowering the powertrain – even on a P100D – at least two-fold. If you mash the brakes, the car is not going to be accelerating. It’s physically impossible. Anyone claiming, ‘I was pressing the brake the whole time, and the car still leaped forward!’ is flat out lying.”

“Go ahead. Try it. Hop in a Tesla, hold the brake pedal and mash the accelerator to the floor. I guarantee you won’t get far, if anywhere. Heck, come to my place, and I'll disable the brake sensors, and you can try the same. It won't work. The brakes will slow the vehicle in all conditions. They're an independent system. So even if some mythical gremlin decided to get into the powertrain and command full acceleration, and you press the brake, you're not going anywhere.
I don't offer any official services on this anymore, as it's always just a waste of time. Instead, I have an open bet for anyone who brings me a real sudden unintended acceleration accident vehicle. If I decode the logs right in front of them, and if they show acceleration while the brake is pressed and the accelerator pedal is not pressed, I'll pay up. If not, they pay up. Simple as that.”

Just so you know the Bet is $50,000 usd or $73,000 aussie dollars so he is quite confidant.....
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 22 Jan 2020, 09:17

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Dax wrote:This article shows what happens as vehicles become more autonomous, no matter what all the drop kicks claim, autonomy will create more crashes and headaches than benefits. It will also destroy jobs and as no one has come up with any ideas of how to overcome the growing jobless and underemployment. Won't matter in a couple of years, everyone will be so desperate to survives as the ecology totally collapses in Aus, all we will have is autonomous anarchy and social attrition.

Tesla like all large companies is one denial of what its cars are becoming with their drive to autonomy and central control, coffins.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireSto ... e-68411483

The company also claimed the man who filed a petition with federal safety officials is a short-seller of Tesla shares, referring to investors who borrow shares in a company's stock and try to profit by replacing them after the share price falls.
n Friday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it would look into a petition filed by Brian Sparks of Berkeley, California, and decide whether to open a formal investigation.
The Man also doesn't own a Tesla.....

Sparks said Tesla owners have lodged 127 complaints with the government, covering 110 crashes and 52 injuries.
The highway agency has yet to verify the complaints. The people who filed complaints were not identified in NHTSA's database.

So the guy is full of shit, is losing money with the stock market with Tesla, Doesn't own a Tesla, no one he mentioned has even made a complaint…. Just so you know if the guy can get Tesla shares to go down he will make money....

I don't know how you get anything about autonomous driving from this...…… Toyota had a problem with Accelerating and paid 1 billion dollars in fee's ….

People hit the accelerator instead of the brake pedal and panic and press down harder, happens hundreds of times every day...…
The best thing in a Tesla it will have a log of what happened....
If someone says they pressed down the brake but pressed the accelerator the Logs will tell what has happened, so far no report of this has been true.

Tesla also have hardwired the brake so if it is pressed the accelerator wont work, just as another precaution...

Dax if your going to put up stuff that's to prove autonomy is bad at least pick a article that is about that
Yup and all those peoples lives that Autonomy will save will just mean more jobs to find... what a horrible thing to happen :bgrin


My definition of autonomy, is computerisation, which is when machines take over and think for the human, even if they are in control of the vehicle. Felt a lot safer in the EV's I tried in the EU that weren't computer controlled, compared to the advanced telsa's and others that are aiming for full automation. Don't like the current modern cars which have their engines computer controlled, they are a waste of everything in my viewpoint and cost heaps to service. But that's not how most others see things, even my Kona is a bit more computer controlled that I would like, but the vehicle controls aren't and you have full control over everything, but energy control and supposed autonomous emergency braking. Haven't had that happen and I brake using the regen, also got rid of apple play and apple compatibility, so they can't track my travels.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 23 Jan 2020, 14:16

HBS Guy wrote:Garbage. None of that is confirmed as the article makes clear.

Fight it if you must, automation will only increase.

The jobs argument is super-real.... depending on the exact ambition of said topic! REALLY :purple :yak yak :yak yak :yak yak :yak yak :yak yak :bike :bike
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Jan 2020, 14:52

Yes, I know. I am not saying all automation is good. What I am saying is it is inevitable. In terms of transportation I think it will be good: computers do not get drunk or fly into road rage.

Population policy comes into this: as people get wealthier they tend to have less kids and when my generation moves out the picture populations should reduce so jobs pressure from automation will reduce.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Bongalong » 23 Jan 2020, 14:59

HBS Guy wrote:Yes, I know. I am not saying all automation is good. What I am saying is it is inevitable. In terms of transportation I think it will be good: computers do not get drunk or fly into road rage.

Population policy comes into this: as people get wealthier they tend to have less kids and when my generation moves out the picture populations should reduce so jobs pressure from automation will reduce.

Ever heard of complex equations? People have the very right to be alarmed at the potentialities in life.... :rain
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby Dax » 23 Jan 2020, 15:09

HBS Guy wrote:Yes, I know. I am not saying all automation is good. What I am saying is it is inevitable. In terms of transportation I think it will be good: computers do not get drunk or fly into road rage.

Population policy comes into this: as people get wealthier they tend to have less kids and when my generation moves out the picture populations should reduce so jobs pressure from automation will reduce.


Why is automation good for humanity, if you look at the facts you will soon see it actually dumbs down the human brain, that's urban clones can be dumbed down much more.

You've forgotten about all the religions desperation to increase their populations no matter what, to take over life. Their populations are rapidly increasing, as well a most Asian countries.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Jan 2020, 15:47

Religions matter less and less as standard of life increases. I said, very clearly: Automation is inevitable. Managed right it need not even be a bad thing.
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 23 Jan 2020, 16:42

Dax wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:Yes, I know. I am not saying all automation is good. What I am saying is it is inevitable. In terms of transportation I think it will be good: computers do not get drunk or fly into road rage.

Population policy comes into this: as people get wealthier they tend to have less kids and when my generation moves out the picture populations should reduce so jobs pressure from automation will reduce.


Why is automation good for humanity, if you look at the facts you will soon see it actually dumbs down the human brain, that's urban clones can be dumbed down much more.

You've forgotten about all the religions desperation to increase their populations no matter what, to take over life. Their populations are rapidly increasing, as well a most Asian countries.

Yes damn Russians
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby DonDeeHippy » 31 Jan 2020, 06:14

Yesterday Tesla released their last quarter and 2019 earning and are doing pretty well.
Their stock is now $642 USD and worth 115 Billion , so the second most valued car manufacturer behind Toyota and about 20 billion ahead of VAG.
They are worth so much on the stock market because Investors can see how much they will be worth in the future and is very inflated..
If it wasn't for Tesla electric cars would still only be a dream , basically 4 door golf carts... None of the existing car makers would ever want to make a car to take away their existing sales...They still haven't made a car eight years later that can travel as far as Tesla's first car the Model S in 2012.
Maybe this year someone will make a car that can go further than the 2012 Tesla, VAG seam to be finally investing some money into EV's. Hyundai made 80,000 EV's last year.
Imagine a hot steamy still morning in major cities without hundreds of thousand of exhausts killing everyone.
Pink has been talking about traveling and at the moment every kilometre is killing us. Well with EV's and renewables they will lessen the impact quite a bit.
As far as electric planes go, we need a few more years of battery development to make them light enough, then we should even see flying being a lot healthier for us all :purple :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles this week

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Jan 2020, 09:16

For big planes electric flight will never be a reality save. . .

An electromagnetic accelerator, plane moves into the start (breech?) and the electromagnets accelerate the plane more and more until ROTATE! and the plane flies up. The huge expenditure of jet fuel in take off eliminated.

Or a scenario from WWII: huge battery packs under the wings get the big jet airborne, then are jettisoned! Need some pretty robust battery construction to deliver heavy current and survive the fall back to earth. :roll :bgrin (WWII for long flights external tanks were fitted to the bombers and fighters, jettisoned when empty.)

Internally, very fast trains could replace airplanes, perhaps.
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