Prisons

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Prisons

Postby HBS Guy » 08 May 2016, 16:03

Kiwigran Posted: May 24 2015, 07:49 AM
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Does a death sentence always mean death?

By Charlotte McDonald
BBC News
23 May 2015

Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been sentenced to death by a federal jury in the US for his part in the attacks on the 2013 marathon. But only a small proportion of those on Death Row are actually executed.

Between 1973 and the end of 2013, 8,466 people were sentenced to death in the United States, and 1,359 - about one in six - were executed.

"It's a death penalty in name only," says Frank R Baumgartner, a political science professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

He has studied the fate of people on death row and discovered that as of 31 December 2013

More here
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32847137
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toetapping Posted: Jun 7 2015, 11:28 AM
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Interesting statistics. A lot of money wasted with cases being overturned or commuted.

Ofcourse you have the site where you have to be sure they are 100% guilty.
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Spice Posted: Jun 9 2015, 12:25 AM
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Teas just executed one that had been on death row for over 30 years. I think the US will deal with Tsarnev swiftly.
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Gwynne Posted: Jun 14 2015, 07:23 PM
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I don't agree with the death penalty, but I do think that a life sentence should be just that - life behind bars. Not given often, or lightly, but some people simply shouldn't be walking around free. Ever.
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marti Posted: Jul 2 2015, 06:39 PM
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i am with you on this one
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ladydi Posted: Oct 8 2015, 01:32 AM
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All too often the justice system takes years to settle a case and by then so much tax payer money is spent. Our prisons/jails are filled to the brim, and I personally feel if the punishments were feared more, there would be less crime!
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Gwynne Posted: Oct 8 2015, 06:12 PM
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I'd change the death sentence to a sentence of Oblivion.

If you're sentenced to Oblivion, you cease to exist in the view of the outside world. You go into a special jail that gives you no contact with the outside world. No visitors, no letters or phone calls, no computer access. No contact with anyone from the outside, minimal contact with guards, no messages going out.

From the point of view of the world at large, you are gone.

I'm not suggesting that they live under cruel conditions - the prisoners can read, exercise, worship, socialise with each other. Play games - cards, chess, etc. They can have books to study. Paint, or take up some other hobby. But the outside world is gone. No contact, no reports and books and interviews, no visitors, no word of what is going on out there.

And they are never released. When they die, they will be buried inside the walls.

So, sentence them to Oblivion.

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jfish1936 Posted: Oct 9 2015, 06:21 PM
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Gwynne, the 18th century Brits had a sentence very similar to your "Oblivion" --- send them to Australia!
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Gwynne Posted: Oct 13 2015, 08:12 PM
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Ah, but an all-expenses paid trip to a tropical paradise isn't the same!

As for the original question - part of the problem is that people - me included - don't feel that they can trust the system. Someone is given a life sentence for some horrific crime, and then they're out in a decade or even less.

Tonight on the news was the story of a sexual predator who raped (at least) five (very) young girls. He'll be out in seven and a half years. I simply can't understand how that happens.

His original sentences added up to more than sixty years. But then the judge said the sentences would be served concurrently.... he got credit for claiming to be schizophrenic at the time... for - I can't remember the rest. But when the judge had finished juggling the numbers, 63 turned into 12, and out in 7.5.

That's vile. And a disgusting insult to the victims. Apparently being raped when you're five years old, and having your childhood and faith in the world destroyed, is worth eighteen months.

I can understand why people want the death penalty. We can't trust the judicial system to keep predators behind bars.
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Spice Posted: Oct 14 2015, 02:05 AM
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If someone is given a life sentence it should mean that. They stay in for the rest of their life. Don't call it a life sentence otherwise.
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jfish1936 Posted: Oct 14 2015, 09:22 PM
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A man is said to have insulted Nero Caesar.
"Do you know the penalty for what you just said?" he was asked.
"I am already sentenced to be thrown to the lions tomorrow" he replied, "What else can you do to me?"

If a man (or woman, but women wouldn't do such dreadful things) knows they are in jail for life, with no prospect of release, they have no motive for good behaviour. Except, of course, to avoid official or unofficial beatings from the guards, which I'm sure you wouldn't condone as part of the system!

The chance of earning release by good behaviour can be a potent force.
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Gwynne Posted: Oct 15 2015, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (jfish1936 @ Oct 14 2015, 11:22 AM)
A man is said to have insulted Nero Caesar.
"Do you know the penalty for what you just said?" he was asked.
"I am already sentenced to be thrown to the lions tomorrow" he replied, "What else can you do to me?"

If a man (or woman, but women wouldn't do such dreadful things) knows they are in jail for life, with no prospect of release, they have no motive for good behaviour. Except, of course, to avoid official or unofficial beatings from the guards, which I'm sure you wouldn't condone as part of the system!

The chance of earning release by good behaviour can be a potent force.


I don't think some of them deserve to earn release.

If they need incentives to behave behind bars there's gaining or losing privileges, maybe a points system where bonus points can be used to buy treats.

They could gain or lose the chance of having visitors.

Movies, solitary confinement, sports activities, study courses.

There's plenty of ways to manage a reward/penalty system. It should be applied across the board to all prisoners - help them learn to connect actions and consequences, teach then to work for goals, structure their time, give them constant small rewards and moments of pleasure.

For those who are sentenced to life behind bars all those small rewards would be even more important.

And I don't think it's a sentence to be given out lightly, but there are some people who are an ongoing danger to others. The man I mentioned in the post above had raped at least five children. One is too many. Five means that he's a determined serial predator. How could anyone believe that he'd be safe around children after a very short sentence? The system told him that there's not much penalty for what he's done.
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jfish1936 Posted: Oct 17 2015, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (Gwynne @ Oct 8 2015, 06:12 PM)
I'd change the death sentence to a sentence of Oblivion.

If you're sentenced to Oblivion, you cease to exist in the view of the outside world. You go into a special jail that gives you no contact with the outside world. No visitors, no letters or phone calls, no computer access. No contact with anyone from the outside, minimal contact with guards, no messages going out.

From the point of view of the world at large, you are gone.

I'm not suggesting that they live under cruel conditions - the prisoners can read, exercise, worship, socialise with each other. Play games - cards, chess, etc. They can have books to study. Paint, or take up some other hobby. But the outside world is gone. No contact, no reports and books and interviews, no visitors, no word of what is going on out there.

And they are never released. When they die, they will be buried inside the walls.

So, sentence them to Oblivion.

Here's a Californian jail which might fit "Oblivion"

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-amer ... 7566991526

(Haven't viewed the video, just read the text)
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Gwynne Posted: Oct 17 2015, 09:13 PM
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It's sad irony that it took such terrible things to happen before they became better people. Probably some of those lifers do now have the control and perspective to be released safely. I'm so sorry for the ones who were sentenced in their teens. What a terrible life they've had.

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jfish1936 Posted: Oct 18 2015, 11:55 PM
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QUOTE (Gwynne @ Oct 17 2015, 09:13 PM)
It's sad irony that it took such terrible things to happen before they became better people. Probably some of those lifers do now have the control and perspective to be released safely. I'm so sorry for the ones who were sentenced in their teens. What a terrible life they've had.


The author,Norman Mailer, befriended a long-sentence man Jack Abbot,, and eventually got him freed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abbott_%...tt_%28author%29.
six weeks after release, Abbot stabbed a waiter in a restaurant.
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Gwynne Posted: Oct 19 2015, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (jfish1936 @ Oct 18 2015, 01:55 PM)
QUOTE (Gwynne @ Oct 17 2015, 09:13 PM)
It's sad irony that it took such terrible things to happen before they became better people. Probably some of those lifers do now have the control and perspective to be released safely. I'm so sorry for the ones who were sentenced in their teens. What a terrible life they've had.


The author,Norman Mailer, befriended a long-sentence man Jack Abbot,, and eventually got him freed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abbott_%...tt_%28author%29.
six weeks after release, Abbot stabbed a waiter in a restaurant.


That's so sad. Some people just aren't safe for our society.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
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