Cheaper coal power is coming

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Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 16 Aug 2018, 23:42

Common sense is starting to sink in that renewable rubbish is the road to ruin as Sth Aust has already shown.

Coal is a BIG election winner for the LIBS as the drongos who don't like coal are in the minority now thanks largely to the Patriotic Australian 2GB and Alan Jones the HERO of Australia.

If there was NO govt subsidy there wouldn't be a loss making windymill to be seen anywhere.



Government’s Financial Backing of New Coal and Gas Plants Would Slash Energy Costs
Author: The Australian Tribune with AAP 13/08/2018
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Coal is the ONLY way Australia can get CHEAP electricity AGAIN

While renewable energy remains a promising source for Australia’s future needs, the present day needs still require coal and gas plants to provide reliable, cheap baseload power. The premature shift to an over-reliance on renewable sources has seen energy costs rocket for households and businesses alike. These costs must be brought back down to earth.

With that in mind the federal government will reportedly underwrite billions of dollars in investment in new coal- and gas-powered plants as it looks to shore up support for its National Energy Guarantee.

The announcement is likely to calm the waters within the divided coalition partyroom, with sources telling The Daily Telegraph the new assets will supply power to large energy users. This would have the effect of lowering power prices in general.

‘The focus is on getting cheap power into the system. It decreases prices for everyone,’ a source told the paper, as well as curtailing the control major energy providers have on the market.

https://www.theaustraliantribune.com.au/2018/08/governments-financial-backing-of-new-coal-and-gas-plants-would-slash-energy-costs/
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby pinkeye » 16 Aug 2018, 23:58

YOU are a fuckwit.

Yep... and an LNP stooge.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 17 Aug 2018, 00:13

Pinky,

now that is a mighty powerful argument coming from you - real convincing. Even Patriotic Pauline knows better than you.


Pauline Hanson says One Nation WILL NOT support the NEG (because she says it will push up power prices).
Instead, she wants the government to OWN, fund and build new coal fired power stations.
Alice Workman 4:16 AM - 16 Aug 2018

VIDEO: Pauline pans Renewable rubbish: https://twitter.com/i/status/1030050649898024960

Hanson: Japan support the Paris agreement but at the same time is using coal to create electricity. So why are we not doing the same?

Hanson: It is a tragedy that the state of Victoria can no longer generate enough electricity at peak times because it has closed its coal fired power stations and refuses to build anymore. What will happen when their lights go out, just like South Australia?

Hanson: The government can't guarantee prices will go down under their NEG agreement. What have they got to lose if they don't? Who do you complain to?

Hanson: The high cost of electricity together with drought conditions in Eastern Australian, threatens the lives of Australians on whom we depend to provide food on our tables.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 00:20

Nope, fossil fuel is more expensive than renewable energy. Fossil fuels have had their day.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby pinkeye » 17 Aug 2018, 00:23

There is no rational argument there about the future. Everyone wants to have the past... unlimited power.

The cost of electricity is entirely down to the CEOs who run the providers. AND the STATE GOVTS who actually , in QLD at least, set up these 'Bodies''. Ostensibly separate corporations. :roll But that is obviously another piece of BS.

The power-stations run on coal, if you like. THEY are reaping in millions. They have over-priced their product .People are now waking up to this autocracy, and it's down to US to make our political masters DO WHAT IS RIGHT. Simple.

WE NEED and WE WANT RENEWABLE ENERGY.


Hanson hasn't got a clue. Why you'd quote HER as some sort of reference :bgrin eludes me. :roll
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 00:33

Because Julia doesn’t really have a brain, I suppose.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby pinkeye » 17 Aug 2018, 00:53

well.. one could suppose that.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 00:58

Can’t come to any other conclusion!

She adds a bit to our post count, not much to quality posts tho.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 00:59

Julia should read this.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 17 Aug 2018, 04:03

Does the Mad Munk really think ANYONE would listen to ANYTHING he said ?

As usual the Lefties' arguments are as weak as water with no relation to practical reality.

Cheap power is unavailable with renewable rubbish full stop because twice the generating equipment is required to backup the wobbly windymills.

Australia needs industry which needs constant reliable stable frequency and voltage supply 24/7 and this can ONLY be supplied by COAL or HYDRO.

So industry is an IDEAL constant load for COAL or HYDRO. For example Tomago Aluminium Smelter on Liddell coal power station.

Coal is a big election winner for the Libs as Australians now want some Trump style thumping.

Hope the shock is not too great for the lost in space Globally Warmed Lefties.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby DonDeeHippy » 17 Aug 2018, 04:53

I don't get it Jules, one hand u say renewables r crap and the other u say hydrogen with renewables is the only way.... Where r u ?
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 05:15

Whatever the website he copies his crap from is “where YouLiar is.”
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 17 Aug 2018, 10:27

The Greeny Types are getting flustered when hit by strong factual arguments and saying nonsense and trying to attack the poster who upsets them so much by smashing their delusional Greeny fantasy world.

As Australia has about 500 years worth of free cheap coal it is the OBVIOUS way to get cheap energy for ever. Renewable rubbish is just an evil AGENDA 2030 Greeny plot to try to close down ALL industry in Australia and reduce Australia to a 4th world country just like Sth Australia is now.

As Australia IMPORTS most of its petrol then it is advantageous to go with the coming HUGE Hydrogen Energy Revolution and even export Hydrogen energy as ammonia to JAPAN which is going full tilt into using Hydrogen.

But the indoctrinated Greeny Types will never be able to understand this.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 10:40

Hydrogen is a niche fuel at best and the stuff YOU c&p shows that!
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 17 Aug 2018, 13:18

Like I said Mad Munk NOBODY would EVER believe ANYTHING you come out with. You parrot impractical Greeny fantasy stuff with no relation to practical reality. But then you are in Tasmania which was ruined by the mad as cut snakes Greenies.

Just to rub it in why is Japan going headlong into Hydrogen Energy ? And why does Australia want to export Hydrogen as ammonia to Japan ? And Sth Korea is moving in the Hydrogen Energy direction.

To put it into focus all electric cars are the NICHE market as they are very restricted with pain in the neck long refuel times. Apart from the gimmicky dangerous cars there is nothing else.

Now I understand you support the mad as cut snakes Greenies' AGENDA 2030 plot to close down ALL industry in Australia and turn Australia into a 4th world country like Sth Australia is now with its crippled power system.
Last edited by Julia on 17 Aug 2018, 13:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Julia » 17 Aug 2018, 13:19

Coal is getting bigger by the hour as the ONLY obvious practical answer to endless CHEAP power for Australian Industry.



Nationals talk up coal after ACCC energy meeting
By David Crowe 13 August 2018 — 2:07pm

Coalition MPs have emerged from a confidential briefing on energy to express increasing confidence about the extension of coal-fired power stations ahead of a crucial vote on the Turnbull government’s energy plan.

ACCC chairman Rod Sims briefed the Nationals party room on 56 recommendations to ease price pressures across the electricity market.

Image
ACCC chair Rod Sims speaks with Barnaby Joyce before addressing the Nationals party room meeting on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The briefing gave Nationals MPs, including former deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce, opportunity to consider whether to embrace the National Energy Guarantee when it is debated in the wider Coalition party room on Tuesday.

Nationals MPs told Fairfax Media there were no surprises in the briefing but it was a good discussion on the full list of ACCC recommendations.

One MP said he continued to back the “certainty” offered by the NEG.

Fairfax Media understands Mr Sims made it clear to the Nationals party room that one of the 56 recommendations in the regulator’s pricing report in June should not be described as “underwriting coal” or favouring coal-fired power stations.

Instead, Mr Sims was “unequivocal” that the recommendation was about helping to finance new forms of generation regardless of their technology, ranging from renewables to fossil fuels.

Even so, many MPs see the ACCC finance idea as a big attraction in the argument over the guarantee, which must clear the Coalition party room on Tuesday before going back to state and territory governments for approval.

Qld Liberal National Party MP Scott Buchholz declared the “first tranche” of the new plan would see the owners of coal-fired power stations start to invest in upgrades to keep generating more electricity for longer.

Mr Buchholz praised Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg for charting a “remarkable course” on energy policy and said the likely consequence was a regime that could encourage investment to upgrade coal-fired power stations.

“What we will see in the first tranche, I dare say, by the NEG, is you will see existing coal-fired power stations, with this guarantee subscription, then start investing money in upgrading and taking advantage of more efficient coal-fired power as they go to do their regenerations,” Mr Buchholz told Sky News.

“I think you’ll see that first.

“The time frames for new coal-fired power station lead-in times are around five to six years and we are looking at upwards of $4 billion.”

Mr Buchholz said he wanted to encourage coal proponents to expand coal fired power in the north of Qld to help development.

“If we are genuinely looking to develop the north, the two things that go hand-in-hand with developing new economies are cheap base-load power, reliable so you can get them every day, and water.”

Qld Nationals MP George Christensen emphasised the importance of investing in more baseload power.

"The ACCC briefing instils more confidence in me about the future for investment in new baseload power generation, but obviously that's dependent on the government's response to their report. The response looks promising given reports today," he said.

Veterans’ Affairs Minister Darren Chester said he believed the majority of the Nationals and Liberals would back the energy policy on Tuesday because they wanted the certainty that came with it.

“They want us to move forward with a plan that provides that certainty for future investment, whether it be in coal-fired power or renewable power,” he said.

The idea of keeping coal-fired power stations open for longer is anathema to critics of the NEG, who fear it will stall investment in solar and wind power and fail to address climate change.

A victory on coal for the Nationals backbench may help the NEG get through the Coalition party room but could make it more difficult for Labor state and territory governments, such as those in Victoria and the ACT, to endorse the scheme in the months ahead.

The key ACCC proposal, recommendation 4 in its June report on electricity pricing, was that the federal government should help underwrite new energy generation projects to help them secure debt finance to serve commercial and industrial customers.

“This will encourage new entry, promote competition and enable commercial and industrial customers to access low-cost new generation,” the ACCC said.

Mr Sims cautioned against descriptions of this proposal as a way to encourage coal-fired power because recommendation 4 was neutral as to the form of power generation worth supporting.

“Our focus was on the 56 recommendations and the recommendation in relation to government involvement really is about debt finance. It’s completely technologically neutral, as it should be,” Mr Sims said in Parliament on Monday.

Mr Sims said Mr Joyce asked many questions, as did many others.

“We covered most of our 56 recommendations. I explained that if Australia wants to improve its affordability, if Australia wants to restore its competitive advantage in electricity, then the 56 recommendations need to be adopted as a package,” he said.

“We shouldn’t get side-tracked in looking at particular recommendations. We need to focus on the package and I’m pleased to say today’s discussion really covered the full package of recommendations.

“We spent equal time on network issues, on retail issues, on generation issues and on green issues.”

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/nationals-talk-up-coal-after-accc-energy-meeting-20180813-p4zx72.html
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2018, 14:53

Takes years to plan for a big installation like a generator. The Libs can do what they like, the next, Labor, govt will put energy on a sound footing, lower prices and lower emissions.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby pinkeye » 18 Aug 2018, 03:04

Oh yeah fuckwit Julie...

Scott Bucholz happens to be my Minister in Parliament, and a stinkier bit of pig shit you couldn't find. The man has no ideas of his own... he is just a mouthpiece for someone else....has done NOTHING for his electorate.
He is just another luster after power, and wouldn't be able to discuss ethics, or even democracy, ad lib. An LNP limp dick, the only reason he is an MP is because he represents a rural QLD electorate which has ALWAYS been a National Party safe seat.

Go kiss his arse 'cos you like the shit that comes out of all his orifices. Yum YUM. :read
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Dax » 24 Aug 2018, 15:24

Julia wrote:[b][i]Common sense is starting to sink in that renewable rubbish is the road to ruin as Sth Aust has already shown.

Coal is a BIG election winner for the LIBS as the drongos who don't like coal are in the minority now thanks largely to the Patriotic Australian 2GB and Alan Jones the HERO of Australia.

If there was NO govt subsidy there wouldn't be a loss making windymill to be seen anywhere.


Hilarious, easy to see you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I run a medium size company, a few years ago, because of the cost of providing power to a new venue we'd bought, we decided to experiment and installed solar. This dropped our day time energy operating costs by over 50%, but as most of the operating times were at night, it wasn't a big help. So I installed lifepo4 batteries, more solar panels and a 500w wind generator to reduce costs and night energy costs dropped by another 15%.

With the experience I had with my own off grid home, tripled the energy storage capacity in the venue and doubled the panels after six months with the savings and now the energy costs are zero. We recouped our investment in 3 years, Did the same with our other venues and except for one venue, all our venues are totally self sufficient in energy. Of course we have yet to recoup the cost of changing all our refrigeration to inverter technology across the company, along with induction cooking and LED lighting we've reduced operating costs by over 50%. It would be higher, but the profits went into lower prices and higher wages, which has increased turnover and profits by more than 20%. In our industry, to get a return of over 12-16%, is excellent. Our return is well over 20% and paid for my recent world trip.

Solar and lifepo4 storage on every building and home, would reduce energy prices to zero after the initial investment is paid off and that can be done within 5 years easily. Even if it took ten years to repay, you'd then have at least another ten years of free energy. My house is in it's 12th year using lifepo4, it cost many times more than it would today and we are never out of power or had an energy bill for decades and the lifepo4 still has 100% capacity. This gives us more money to spent on good times and travel.

Solar/lifepo4 storage on every home and energy costs would drop to zero over time. If we established local small grids, this would reduce energy costs for businesses as they could use the excess from homes to run their establishments and reduce prices for everything. It would stimulate the economy, reduce green house gases and give everyone energy security. People would pay for their systems just as they do their current energy bills, reduced by the return on the excess energy they provide, so no real cost in the end.
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby Sprintcyclist » 24 Aug 2018, 16:05

Dax wrote:
Julia wrote:[b][i]Common sense is starting to sink in that renewable rubbish is the road to ruin as Sth Aust has already shown.

Coal is a BIG election winner for the LIBS as the drongos who don't like coal are in the minority now thanks largely to the Patriotic Australian 2GB and Alan Jones the HERO of Australia.

If there was NO govt subsidy there wouldn't be a loss making windymill to be seen anywhere.


Hilarious, easy to see you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I run a medium size company, a few years ago, because of the cost of providing power to a new venue we'd bought, we decided to experiment and installed solar. This dropped our day time energy operating costs by over 50%, but as most of the operating times were at night, it wasn't a big help. So I installed lifepo4 batteries, more solar panels and a 500w wind generator to reduce costs and night energy costs dropped by another 15%.

With the experience I had with my own off grid home, tripled the energy storage capacity in the venue and doubled the panels after six months with the savings and now the energy costs are zero. We recouped our investment in 3 years, Did the same with our other venues and except for one venue, all our venues are totally self sufficient in energy. Of course we have yet to recoup the cost of changing all our refrigeration to inverter technology across the company, along with induction cooking and LED lighting we've reduced operating costs by over 50%. It would be higher, but the profits went into lower prices and higher wages, which has increased turnover and profits by more than 20%. In our industry, to get a return of over 12-16%, is excellent. Our return is well over 20% and paid for my recent world trip.

Solar and lifepo4 storage on every building and home, would reduce energy prices to zero after the initial investment is paid off and that can be done within 5 years easily. Even if it took ten years to repay, you'd then have at least another ten years of free energy. My house is in it's 12th year using lifepo4, it cost many times more than it would today and we are never out of power or had an energy bill for decades and the lifepo4 still has 100% capacity. This gives us more money to spent on good times and travel.

Solar/lifepo4 storage on every home and energy costs would drop to zero over time. If we established local small grids, this would reduce energy costs for businesses as they could use the excess from homes to run their establishments and reduce prices for everything. It would stimulate the economy, reduce green house gases and give everyone energy security. People would pay for their systems just as they do their current energy bills, reduced by the return on the excess energy they provide, so no real cost in the end.



Thanks Dax, excellent information
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Re: Cheaper coal power is coming

Postby HBS Guy » 24 Aug 2018, 19:14

Saw an ad for a wind generator, $700. Probably need some electronics, wiring, installation but I guess $1000 would have a windmill installed.

Not too much sun in the Tassie winter!

Have not forgotten the lifepo4 batteries!
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