The “Pacific Solution” did not work

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The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Jul 2012, 13:24

Excellent summary here including detailed world wide figures:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/201 ... kJggg%3D...

Refugee numbers arriving in Australia roughly (we take such a tiny percentage) correspond to worldwide numbers.

Disgraceful that the conservative parties, the Libs, the Nats and the Greens combined to block a move to a real offshore processing solution, one like the Fraser solution when Viet Nam refugees flooded South East Asia. How many more AS have to drown at sea before the murderers in the Lib/Nat/Green Parties genuinely join the one progressive party, the ALP, to stopping these deaths.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Jul 2012, 18:30

Oh dear, trouble in the Noalition?

@latikambourke: WA National MP Tony Crook has emailed back a response to Christopher Pyne’s terse email yesterday.

@latikambourke: Tony Crook ‘Dear Chris, The Coalition may not be formally part of the “working group” but there are two members of the Coalition involved.’

@latikambourke: Tony Crook to Christopher Pyne ‘…and there are more that have expressed a strong interest in a long term solution…’ #asylum

@latikambourke: Tony Crook to Christopher Pyne ‘(some have personally articulated to me that they would like to be involved).’ #asylum

@latikambourke: Crook ‘I agree totally with your view on the current impasse. I completely agree that the ball is firmly in the court of the Government.’
@latikambourke: Crook to Pyne ‘However, I don’t think this should preclude us (Parliamentarians) from seeking a long term satisfactory solution…’

@latikambourke: Tony Crook to Christopher Pyne ‘…which will hopefully eventually gain bipartisan support..so far there has been no agenda, only goodwill.

@latikambourke: Tony Crook to Christopher Pyne ‘the hand wringing and faffing about that you refer to could be no worse’ than last week?’ #asylum
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Jul 2012, 16:03

Another world wide refugee report:

http://www.unhcr.org/4e9beaa19.html

We take so very few.

The AS that come by boat, Nauru did not deter. But wish the debate could become a bit more nuanced than that. The AS that come by boat tend to be wealthy (almost by definition, boarding a boat is not cheap!) yet there are tens of thousands of refugees who have lived in crowded camps and not much is done.

Unfortunately, the Greens have their idee fixe in place of a sensible, nuanced policy and Abbott doesn’t care as long as boat people keep arriving as he thinks he will surf into the Lodge on a wave of BOATS!

Poor suffering humanity! One thing Fraser did that is good, a sensible, generous policy towards VN refugees. It was a *cough*Malaysia Solution*cough*
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Jul 2012, 16:09

Peak of humanity, just so John Cunting Howard could slime back into the Lodge, errr Kirribilly House, cunt couldn’t even fix the Lodge while he swanned around with his social climbing wife at Kirribilly, SIEV X:

http://sievx.com/


Even darker things have been murmurred but proof will never be found unless a few arseholes grow a conscience and confess.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 20 Jul 2012, 14:43

A compendium of info about world wide refugee issues:

http://theconversation.edu.au/asylum-se ... nversation)

It looks like Pakistan is about to expell 1m Afghanis—we can’t take all of them. Someone must have got a message though to Paki govt that if they kept interfering in Afghanistan then India might be encouraged to “look” at Pakistan again. (This is some speculation on Poll Bludger.)
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby loveandlaughter » 22 Jul 2012, 21:08

RE
The AS that come by boat, Nauru did not deter. But wish the debate could become a bit more nuanced than that. The AS that come by boat tend to be wealthy (almost by definition, boarding a boat is not cheap!) yet there are tens of thousands of refugees who have lived in crowded camps and not much is done.


HBS Guy - I agree that we take very few refugees relative to other parts of the world. I'm curious about your comment above, though. Boarding a boat is (I assume) not cheap, but in many cases whole families will pool their resources to send one of their family away, and/or they sell everything they have to pay their way. And for those who do have wealth, they are just as much subject to persecution and the effects of war as those with no money - wealth is not a criteria for whether or not someone is eligible to be accepted as a refugee.

And you're right, there are tens of thousands of people who are in refugee camps, and the conditions there are often terrible. If I was in a refugee camp and knew that the wait was 40 years (as I understand it is in Malaysia, for example), I'd do everything I could to get out.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Jul 2012, 19:43

Firstly, sorry that I didn’t see you made a post—you should be able to post everywhere now without needing approval.

The ASs that come by boat also fly into Indo—just some that are in camps, in Thailand say, get no chance. In this case I hope the increasing democracy in Myanmar will see those refugees returning home.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Aug 2012, 13:47

Houston committee has handed down its findings:
"Over time, a comprehensive regional framework will reduce the lure of irregular maritime migration but until then, the panel believes Australia needs to include the prospect of processing options outside of Australia.
"To support this, it is the panel's view that the Australian Parliament should agree, as a matter of urgency, to legislation that will allow for the processing of irregular maritime arrivals in locations outside Australia."


Naturally, a true Regional Processing Centre would be good, many, many desperate people locked in camps or too poor too pay people smugglers are stuck in camps under appalling conditions. The HC should not have listened to the do-gooders and allowed Malaysia straight away.

This makes little sense:
"The panel recommends that Australia move immediately to establish capacities in Nauru and Papua New Guinea in coordination with those respective governments.

"Asylum seekers who have their claims processed outside of Australia would be provided with protection and welfare arrangements consistent with the responsibilities under international law and the domestic laws of Australia and the host country."


Nauru in particular, with its insufficient water supply would be ridiculously expensive. This part of the report is ridiculous, stupid and inhumane! Is it an attempt to wedge Abbott and Morriscum?

Houston says the panel believes the family migration program should be increased by 4,000 places: but those who arrive by "irregular maritime means" should not be eligible to sponsor family members to join them in Australia.


Another throwback to Howard. This will mean that those who arrived by boat will arrange for their wives and kids to risk their lives on another boat—this happened under the failure called the Pacific Solution.

Houston says there should be no differentiation between people who arrive by boat and those who arrive by air.

Says the panel wants "circuit breakers" to "achieve the necessary shift in the balance of risk and incentive".

Says Australia's humanitarian program should be increased from 13,000 to 20,000 places a year, and up to 27,000 within five years.


No differentiation yet says boat arrivals shouldn’t be allowed to sponsor family reunions. :huh :WTF

A failure! Yet Oakeshott likes it, a rare time I disagree with Rob!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-13/l ... .svl=news0

Website incl full report of Houston Expert Panel:
http://expertpanelonasylumseekers.dpmc.gov.au/report

This is the guts of it:
http://expertpanelonasylumseekers.dpmc. ... ations.pdf
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2012, 07:23

Aristotle (from AS Panel) on Mental Health implications: “Mental Health issues still being dealt with from Pacific Solution. Also from people who have lost family in boat sinking and drownings. . . .If we do not resolve this now it will be a long time before we get an opportunity like this again!” (presser by panel.)

Libs and Greens both a bunch of cunts IOW!

Houston: Houston: Family Reunion backlog 20100. 700 only taken last year.
Recommendation for anyone granted Permanent Visa, if arrived here by regular means, to be able to access Family Reunion. Not otherwise.

The “Not otherwise” is stupid and will see wives/kids boarding the boats.

Houston: IOS & UNHCR to be involved with Processing hopefully when it comes to Manus Is and Nauru.
L’Estrange: UNHCR may not be involved with Processing but observance of the Processing.

Houston on Tow Back: Naval Commander in best posn to weigh up circumstances at the time of contact with AS boat. Sabotage a lot more sophisticated now than it was 10 years ago. No longer engine but bung in hull, pulled out and boat sinks. Consideration of Safety of Life at Sea factors need to be considered.

There goes Tone’s BS!
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2012, 07:35

And the Pacific solution did not work:
http://www.independentaustralia.net/201 ... rkJggg%3D..
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2012, 13:10

Andrew Elder on the politics of the Houston Report. It diminishes Tone whether Tone supports or opposes the package.

Kohler agrees:
david ewart ‏@davidbewart
Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much Abbott claims credit for it.' Kholer
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Fucking politics, on the one issue it should not intrude! But the Lib and Green parties have done nothing but play politics on this, to their eteral discredit. The refugee industry and the High Court also have to shoulder responsibility.

Another boat, with 61 on board is feared lost with the lives of all on board. Charming! Will SHY cry again? Fuck me dead, Malaysia Regional Processing Centre WILL prevent people setting off in leaky old boats. Everyone involved knows that, yet they play politics.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2012, 21:59

Transcript of Paris Aristotle’s interview on Lateline:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 567010.htm

Aristotle begins by pointing out his organisation counsels refugees who have been traumatised by Nauru, by deaths at sea and works with refugees from Sudan etc as well.

PARIS ARISTOTLE: OK, well, to get one thing clear, we're not recommending opening detention centres. We're certainly recommending that one of the things that must be avoided in any transfer or regional processing arrangement is arbitrary detention.

The other thing that's different to the past is that there were no independent monitoring and oversight mechanisms of what was happening. We've recommended that there be oversight and monitoring mechanisms through high-level groups comprising of cross-party membership, experts from the non-government sector or academia, senior officials who would monitor and oversight the adherence to the conditions of any transfer arrangement and international obligations.

And in particular what we're suggesting is that Nauru and Manus Island would be an initial short-term circuit break while the transitional process is put in place towards other regional arrangements that may include Malaysia or Indonesia
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Aug 2012, 00:00

Another political benefit—the Houston panel’s report helps the govt VERY clearly differentiate itself from the Greens which is very good for appealing to the base.

Hopefully when the legislation is done and dusted Gillard, Bowden etc will clearly differentiate this effort from the Pacific (non)Solution. There are major differences in detail and in the broad objectives of each package.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Aug 2012, 17:12

@leftocentre: Numpty News:
Breaking:
Malcolm Fraser agrees to lead LNP.
First priority:
To refund Mr & Mrs Abbott’s £10 and then deport Tony, (by boat).


Umm, quite. :purple :yellow :purple
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Aug 2012, 21:58

What a charmer, surely he will lose preselection this time and not even Lib HO will override local branch:
Dr Jensen - WA Lib, Tagney: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansardr%2Fb3153d12-39f7-4135-bb56-f699ce3218b6%2F0087;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansardr%2Fb3153d12-39f7-4135-bb56-f699ce3218b6%2F0000%22

"we are over the soft touch; it is time for the iron fist" #AUSpol

[My emphasis.]
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 10:43

Paris Aristotle’s change of heart re Nauru and Manus Isl:

http://m.theage.com.au/national/a-chang ... 246t3.html
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 12:50

rosemour
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2012 at 8:26 am | Permalink
Listening to Frank Brennan last night I wouldn’t too confident this Houston hand grenade isn’t going to explode twice in the governments face.
The whole thing could be a complete fiasco legally.

The Malaysia agreement will eventually be seen as the only effective deterrent IMO


This Poll Bludger is starting to get it. I would quibble with “deterrent” tho.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 13:12

DeepshiT misses everything in the Houston Panel report and the govts actions “Johnny was right” type of guff.

Julia is playing chess while DT is still looking for his checker set.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 13:35

From the Senate yesterday:
Chris Evans to SH-Y in Senate QT yesterday.

As I said earlier, I think the Houston report and the legislation seek to establish two important principles, among other initiatives, and I do not think the sort of emotive language that the senator uses helps in what is a very difficult public debate. I know the passions are high about these things, but while I am on my feet I would say to the senator that I thought her attack on Mr Paris Aristotle the other day was disgraceful. Given that Mr Aristotle has been one of the largest contributors to assisting victims of torture in this country and has worked with refugees for over 20 years, I thought to have his name besmirched because you did not like the report was an outrage.
I remind the Senate that Mr Paris Aristotle was the person who helped negotiate people off the Oceanic Viking and he spent weeks trying to assist those people. I think when we are debating the report we ought to debate the facts and the public policy questions that confront the parliament.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 13:52

This bludger gets it, maybe by guesswork instead of reasoning:
C@tmomma
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2012 at 8:51 am | Permalink
rosemour@4118,

Listening to Frank Brennan last night I wouldn’t too confident this Houston hand grenade isn’t going to explode twice in the governments face.
The whole thing could be a complete fiasco legally.

The Malaysia agreement will eventually be seen as the only effective deterrent. IMO.


THAT’S what I’m waiting for. It may be the long way to get there but it seems that the government didn’t have any other option than to go via Nauru and Manus Island to Malaysia.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 14:45

Bushfire Bill
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2012 at 9:31 am | Permalink
BB

The public have now clicked on to the fact that these latest boat arrivals are just gaming the system and nothing more


It could be argued that, once upon a time, this was not the case.

But today it is.

Every system goes through the stages of teething, basic operation, revision, maturity and finally… being rorted.

This is where the government’s more humane approach to asylum seekers was overtaken by events. As soon as organized crime took over the process, operating from a monumentally disinterested Indonesian sheltered workshop, the people smuggling racket shat in its own nest.

As soon as the Opposition decided to play dirty and obstructionist, feigning concern for “those poor people”, the game was up.

The Greens continued to believe that coming here by boat qualified anyone who survived the journey for “special”, accelerated processing of their asylum claims, over the top of others who stayed within the system and waited patiently, sometimes for decades.

When asylum seekers started to take packaged tours from Tehran, via Dubai (perhaps for a little shopping?), then on to Jakarta, thence via air-conditioned coach to a Javanese fishing village, and finally to Xmas Island, the rort was well and truly in operation.

Meanwhile, genuine, deserving (but less well-heeled) asylum seekers saw their places in the line being gobbled up by the people smugglers and their clients.

It was a situation that had to be stopped. The harsher the tactics of the queue jumpers, the harsher the tactics the government implemented had to be.

A combination of political bloody-mindedness by the Opposition, refusal to budge by the Greens from “ideals” long since rendered anachronistic, cynical, criminal orgainzation by people smugglers and outright entitlement mentality on behalf of the “asylum seekers” themselves (and their relatives here) conspired to produce the current legislative solution.

The Greens can whinge and wail, yet maintain purity.

But the Opposition and their supporters are now in it up to their necks.

And that was what yesterday’s monumental dummy-spit in Parliament was all about. The Opposition has taken its back-door tactic too far, as all things are taken too far. But it won’t be a back-door into political office.

The Coalition have back-doored themselves so much that the “fullness” they can suddenly feel in the rear is their own appendage, well and truly corked right up their own arse.


Bushfire Bill in his usual florid fashion has described the current boats issue quite well.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 16 Aug 2012, 23:29

The Off Shore processing Bill passes the Senate.

Bet Malaysia Regional Processing Centre will be up and running before very long!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-16/s ... ll/4203842
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby ele » 17 Aug 2012, 10:59

Interesting move by Julia to accept the libs notion of Nauru - guess if the boats don't stop coming, she can say- well we tried your policy... :) And at leats we did something- can't believe the media that wa scriticising her for not coming to terms with Libs earlier- why isn't it criticising them for not coming to terms with Labor policy- which party is the government anyway?
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Aug 2012, 13:53

This is all merely the long way round to the only sensible option—a regional processing centre in Malaysia—look in Topics in Members to see in detail why I think that and how Nauru/Manus Is Mk2 will flop pretty quickly.

If the Greens had been sensible they could have agreed to Malaysia with a long list of conditions the govt would have had to accept. Instead, the morons dealt themselves right out of the As game. The Greens will get nowhere until they dump SHY IMHO. All this will give them a bit of a blip in support I am sure but that will fade away again when it is seen no detention of ASs, access to bureaucrats, lawyers, UNHCR people etc etc.

Meantime, the Labor govt has distinguished itself very clearly from the Greens!

Abbott’s and the Libs (Scoot, Mesma etc) feral bloodlust in blaming Julia for the AS lives lost by drowning (when it was the Lib’s fault for not accepting Malaysia!) and their gloatfest re Nauru would have turned a few people off the Libs in a big way.
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Re: The “Pacific Solution” did not work

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Aug 2012, 09:15

the DT helping Julia:

Daily Telegraph doing Gillard’s job for her: Manus Island is a dump.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/m ... 6452592708
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