New Topic? Again?

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New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 13:05

I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



by Zachary B. Wolf
(Questions? Comments? impeachment@cnn.com)

Think Trump's acting like a dictator now? What if he's reelected after this?
Opening arguments from the Democrats are over. They closed their case against President Donald Trump declaring he must be removed from office for upsetting the balance of power envisioned by the Constitution and for upsetting world order.
House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, the former federal prosecutor who presided all fall over the House inquiry into Trump's Ukraine pressure campaign, closed the arguments for Democrats by trying to head off some of what Trump's defenders will say in their rebuttal. The California Democrat chiefly focused on making the point that Republicans, regardless of their personal feelings about the President, should realize he'll put himself over the country again and again.
"It doesn't matter whether you like him. It doesn't matter if you dislike him," Schiff said. "What matters is whether he is a danger to the country because he will do it again. And none of us have can have confidence, based on his record, that he will not do it again. Because he is telling us every day that he will.
Obstructing Congress
Most of today's arguments focused on the second article of impeachment, which argues Trump has obstructed Congress. Read that again here.
The Democrats are arguing that, in the American system, no one should be above the law. But Trump's Department of Justice says he can't be indicted, which is at least part of the reason the Mueller report did not recommend charging him as part of the Russia investigation that consumed the first half of Trump's presidency before concluding last year.
Trump's fateful phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky came July 25, the day after Robert Mueller's last testimony on his investigation. Democrats outlined the White House effort to squash their investigation into Trump's efforts to hold up taxpayer-funded, congressionally approved aid to Ukraine, and the unprecedented lack of cooperation between the branches of government as they tried to find out what happened.
Upsetting the balance of power
Trump came into office with Republicans holding both chambers of Congress. He refuses to cooperate with Democrats now that they control the House of Representatives. That leaves him accountable to no one but the Supreme Court and the Electoral College, which gives more power to the less populous states where he draws his power. This is not the system of checks and balances envisioned by the Constitution. But the idea that things are out of whack may not be enough to convince any Republicans to remove their President from office.
Imagine how he'll act in January 2021
House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler, who earlier this week accused the Senate of a cover-up for not issuing subpoenas to the administration, today accused Trump of acting like a dictator for ignoring lawmakers.
“He does not have to respect the Congress," the New York Democrat said of Trump's thinking. "He does not have to respect the representatives of the people. Only his will goes. He is a dictator. This must not stand."
If Nadler thinks Trump is overbold now, wait until he is acquitted. And then, maybe, reelected.
John Dean, the Watergate-era Nixon aide, made an interesting point about this Thursday on CNN: "I have the most trouble, not if he gets away with this, but if he gets reelected, we have a president who is unchecked, unchecked, and our democracy has changed dramatically."
This is bigger than US politics
Before Nadler's declaration that Trump is a dictator, Schiff had spent hours talking about the importance of the US in the world and the danger of Russia, Ukraine's neighbor.
He talked about the nuclear arsenal Ukraine inherited when the Soviet Union fell. He talked about the importance of containing countries like Russia, which was not afraid to invade Ukraine. He talked about the hot war in Ukraine and the importance of NATO and the fact that the peace in Europe has been maintained by strategic alliances. And he argued that Trump is more interested in his own political survival than any of that.
People throw around the notion that the US is a model of democracy for the world. Schiff's argument went into great detail to drive it home and pushed the idea that Trump's actions in Ukraine, emboldening Russia and making US allies question American reliability, is as damaging as the imbalance the President has caused in the domestic balance of power.
New tape released of Trump bad-mouthing Yovanovitch -- in 2018
Trump was captured on tape at a 2018 dinner with Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- the former Rudy Giuliani associates who were recently indicted on campaign finance charges (read that document here) -- demanding the firing of Marie Yovanovitch, who was then the US ambassador to Ukraine, according to an attorney for Parnas. (CNN has not reviewed the tape.)
"Get rid of her!" a voice appearing to belong to Trump says on the recording, according to ABC News, which on Friday first reported its existence. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
Pompeo blows up at reporter over Ukraine
When an NPR reporter asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo about his lack of support for Yovanovitch, it did not go well.
During the interview, Pompeo said he had defended State Department employees. But Mary Louise Kelly asked specifically where he had defended Yovanovitch, who conservatives had pressured Trump to fire and who, it appears, had been under surveillance of some kind by associates one step removed from the President's lawyer.
Pompeo had no answer. He later blew up at Kelly, hurling expletives at her in his office, according to NPR. And he asked her to point out Ukraine on an unmarked map, which she did.
A ghost in the Senate chamber
There was a striking moment today when Schiff brought an old voice back into the chamber as he talked about the threat posed by Russia. He played video of Sen. John McCain of Arizona, Trump's Republican nemesis and a great foe of Russia, who died in 2018.
It was a reminder of how much the party has evolved with Trump as its standard-bearer.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, who was McCain’s best friend in the Senate but has lately evolved into Trump's defender, looked up toward the ceiling for a moment as the clip came to an end. When it was over, the South Carolina Republican folded his hands and returned his gaze to Schiff, according to CNN's Lauren Fox.
The latest on witnesses
After Trump's defenders have their say and senators have an opportunity to ask written questions, it will be time for the senators to consider calling additional witnesses. The White House has not cooperated with the inquiry, so there are plenty of potential targets.
The final words Democrats uttered in their opening arguments were about witnesses.
"Give America a fair trial. She's worth it," Schiff said.
It's not clear if Senate Democrats will get the four Republican votes they would need to side with them in favor of witnesses.
"It’s not the Senate’s job to clean up after what the House did," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said Friday on Fox News, opposing witnesses.
Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, the Senate Democratic leader, took the opposing view.
"The bottom line: We're seeking the truth at a momentous time in the American republic. It is on the shoulders of four Republican senators to join us in demanding it. We've made the argument forcefully," Schumer said.
Time for Trump's defense
Trump's lawyer Jay Sekulow previewed the President's defense, which will kick off Saturday, starting at 10 a.m. and on an abbreviated schedule for the weekend. They'll lean into Hunter Biden and bring up the infamous dossier.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2020, 13:34

"It’s not the Senate’s job to clean up after what the House did," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said Friday on Fox News, opposing witnesses.


This is bullshit. The WH causes the problem (with-holding documents and ordering witnesses to ignore subpoenas) so then when the matter gets to the Senate, it says it is not the Senate's job to sort it out.

Rubbish. It is the job of CONGRESS to get to the truth and ensure that every relevant document is produced and every relevant witness gives evidence.

It is NOT the job of CONGRESS to be stonewalling for Trump.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 13:50

Aussie wrote:
"It’s not the Senate’s job to clean up after what the House did," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said Friday on Fox News, opposing witnesses.


This is bullshit. The WH causes the problem (with-holding documents and ordering witnesses to ignore subpoenas) so then when the matter gets to the Senate, it says it is not the Senate's job to sort it out.

Rubbish. It is the job of CONGRESS to get to the truth and ensure that every relevant document is produced and every relevant witness gives evidence.

It is NOT the job of CONGRESS to be stonewalling for Trump.

Traditionally is hasn’t been but the US constitution, as we are now learning, if full of holes you can drive the entire Republican Party through. My feeling is we are seeing here is a group of politicians who underneath don’t have any firm moral convictions other than ‘We are born to rule and stuff the rest of you’.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby SethBullock » 25 Jan 2020, 13:54

karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


No offense, but ...

Hogwash.

Our Republic is alive and well, and it is in ZERO danger of becoming a dictatorship.

ZERO.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 13:58

SethBullock wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


No offense, but ...

Hogwash.

Our Republic is alive and well, and it is in ZERO danger of becoming a dictatorship.

ZERO.

I must be very comforting for you to believe that.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2020, 14:00

It is just going to go on party-political lines. I know that, everybody knows that. Why get excited about it? The Narcissist in Chief, if re-elected,will do something colossaly stupid and then the Repugs will find a way to get rid of him. Repugs are riding Trumpy’s perceived popularity but the mid terms, not as good as Demoncrats had hoped, showed a lot of the shine had come off Trumpy.

What a system, huge gerrymanders to favor Repug Reps, voter disenfranchisement etc and they call it a democracy.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 14:11

HBS Guy wrote:It is just going to go on party-political lines. I know that, everybody knows that. Why get excited about it? The Narcissist in Chief, if re-elected,will do something colossaly stupid and then the Repugs will find a way to get rid of him. Repugs are riding Trumpy’s perceived popularity but the mid terms, not as good as Demoncrats had hoped, showed a lot of the shine had come off Trumpy.

What a system, huge gerrymanders to favor Repug Reps, voter disenfranchisement etc and they call it a democracy.



The kind of ‘something colossally stupid’ thing Trump is capable of unleashing could get rid of us all. Even if somebody in the military has the sense to give him the wrong codes for that red button the Republican Party's acceptance of his behavior is undermining the very foundations of US democracy.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2020, 14:33

War with Iran I reckon is what Trumpy is aching for. They have missiles and partly purified fissile uranium and a world wide terrorist network—Trumpy visibly pulled back from war with Iran. But re-elected he has nothing to lose so. . .



I will move this to Politics soon unless anyone objects.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2020, 14:38

SethBullock wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


No offense, but ...

Hogwash.

Our Republic is alive and well, and it is in ZERO danger of becoming a dictatorship.

ZERO.


Ya know, it shits me that I do this, as it always invokes a Godwin...but the comparison is so apt. Seth, good Germans said the same thing about Adolf.

The Pope:

“Hitler didn't steal the power, his people voted for him, and then he destroyed his people,” the pope added.


Link.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 15:02

HBS Guy wrote:War with Iran I reckon is what Trumpy is aching for. They have missiles and partly purified fissile uranium and a world wide terrorist network—Trumpy visibly pulled back from war with Iran. But re-elected he has nothing to lose so. . .


Nothing to lose? We have no idea if the Nth Koreans have supplied Iran with fully developed nuclear weapons or not.. If they have all of us have a great deal to lose.


I will move this to Politics soon unless anyone objects.
Good idea.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2020, 15:03

Hitler only got 33% of the vote, just he then got rid of the non nazi Reichstag members. He never, ever had a majority vote, it was a putsch, a coup.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 15:14

HBS Guy wrote:It is just going to go on party-political lines. I know that, everybody knows that. Why get excited about it? The Narcissist in Chief, if re-elected,will do something colossally stupid and then the Repugs will find a way to get rid of him. Repugs are riding Trumpy’s perceived popularity but the mid terms, not as good as Demoncrats had hoped, showed a lot of the shine had come off Trumpy.

What a system, huge gerrymanders to favor Repug Reps, voter disenfranchisement etc and they call it a democracy.


I suspect a portion of Americans have always been jealous of the English having a long standing monarchy. It could explain the obsession they have with the executive branch. If anyone imagines this an exaggeration just remember the fawning and adoration the Kennedys received when ‘on the throne’.
I can’t however get my head around the stupidity of the Republicans. Can’t they see that no matter how this all turns out eventually the party is going to pay a huge price for unquestioningly supporting an impetuous thug like Frump? They must be desperate for power for it’s own sake. We shouldn’t however be suprised given they left behind any pretence at being the Party of Free Enterprise to become the Party of the rich and influential a long time ago. Ayn Rand is rolling in her grave.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2020, 15:20

Ayne Rand staved off the grave a bit courtesy of Canadian tax payer dollars. When the chips were down she could not live up to the ideals she professed in her turgid novels. Canadian tax payers paid for her lung cancer operation! Statist, moocher Rand!

“I like to think of a man with a cigarette in his fingers, fire controlled at his finger trips” or some such twaddle from “Atlas Shrugged.” I guess that fire wasn’t quite so controlled, rather it was controlling! Worthless writer and “philospher.”

She ended her days on national security—a public pension!
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 15:40

HBS Guy wrote:Ayn Rand staved off the grave a bit courtesy of Canadian tax payer dollars. When the chips were down she could not live up to the ideals she professed in her turgid novels. Canadian tax payers paid for her lung cancer operation! Statist, moocher Rand!

“I like to think of a man with a cigarette in his fingers, fire controlled at his finger trips” or some such twaddle from “Atlas Shrugged.” I guess that fire wasn’t quite so controlled, rather it was controlling! Worthless writer and “philospher.”

She ended her days on national security—a public pension!

I’m acquainted in great detail with the contradictions of Ayn Rand’s life. However, I’m not anything like a follower of her objectivist philosophy apart from her epistemology which I have yet to see refuted effectively by any of the academics who pretend she never existed. It's even more absurd to ignore her ongoing influence. The danger in ignoring this influence should not escape you, especially if we have any concern with young right wingers foetid beliefs.
As to her novels being turgid one could also say that about Wagner without diminishing either’s artistic achievements.
Your use of “philosopher” is interesting. If she wasn’t one neither are 90% of the loquacious claimants to that discipline, especially the French de-constructionists whose over-tossed word salads aren’t worth a chapter of Atlas Shrugged.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2020, 15:51

She called herself an Objectivist philospher.

Her books were turgid. The first book, set in post Revolution Russia was already that way tho just a slim volume.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby SethBullock » 25 Jan 2020, 16:01

HBS Guy wrote:War with Iran I reckon is what Trumpy is aching for. They have missiles and partly purified fissile uranium and a world wide terrorist network—Trumpy visibly pulled back from war with Iran. But re-elected he has nothing to lose so. . .



I will move this to Politics soon unless anyone objects.


Trump does not want a war with Iran. He doesn't want a war with anyone. He has started no new wars, and he has let things with Iran simmer down.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby SethBullock » 25 Jan 2020, 16:04

karlrand wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:It is just going to go on party-political lines. I know that, everybody knows that. Why get excited about it? The Narcissist in Chief, if re-elected,will do something colossally stupid and then the Repugs will find a way to get rid of him. Repugs are riding Trumpy’s perceived popularity but the mid terms, not as good as Demoncrats had hoped, showed a lot of the shine had come off Trumpy.

What a system, huge gerrymanders to favor Repug Reps, voter disenfranchisement etc and they call it a democracy.


I suspect a portion of Americans have always been jealous of the English having a long standing monarchy....


Oh good grief! :grn
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 16:04

HBS Guy wrote:She called herself an Objectivist philospher.
So? Many philosophers consider themselves objective. She was however trying,in a somewhat confused way,to give the term ‘Objectivism’ to describe her particular approach, a narrower meaning than we normally would. . Her disciple Nathanial Brandon took this further naming his particular slant on psychology ‘Objectivist psychology’.
Her books were turgid. The first book, set in post Revolution Russia was already that way tho just a slim volume.

We totally disagree about her literary style. If you dive into any number of modern and some earlier Russian novels you’ll find this is a particulary Russian long winded approach to the novel not unique to Rand. Instance Tolstoy. It’s interesting though her ‘turgidity' didn’t and still doesn’t prevent amazing sales figures.
This is wandering far off topic, whatever that was.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 16:05

SethBullock wrote:
karlrand wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:It is just going to go on party-political lines. I know that, everybody knows that. Why get excited about it? The Narcissist in Chief, if re-elected,will do something colossally stupid and then the Repugs will find a way to get rid of him. Repugs are riding Trumpy’s perceived popularity but the mid terms, not as good as Demoncrats had hoped, showed a lot of the shine had come off Trumpy.

What a system, huge gerrymanders to favor Repug Reps, voter disenfranchisement etc and they call it a democracy.


I suspect a portion of Americans have always been jealous of the English having a long standing monarchy....


Oh good grief! :grn

We note your substantive and well thought comment.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby SethBullock » 25 Jan 2020, 16:08

Aussie wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


No offense, but ...

Hogwash.

Our Republic is alive and well, and it is in ZERO danger of becoming a dictatorship.

ZERO.


Ya know, it shits me that I do this, as it always invokes a Godwin...but the comparison is so apt. Seth, good Germans said the same thing about Adolf.

The Pope:

“Hitler didn't steal the power, his people voted for him, and then he destroyed his people,” the pope added.


Link.


Oh geez! :grn

You guys are killing me! Godwin resurrected, dictatorships, nuclear war, the end of the world .... :OMG

For :S sake, Stop!!
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2020, 16:37

Yes...that's what would have been said of the contemporary critics of Adolf. The US is in danger of handing itself over to POTUS Trump.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby Dax » 25 Jan 2020, 17:50

karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


The USA is no different to other countries, politically, ideologically, social and ecologically. So there is no argument as to it being any more relevant to any other form of political corruption sweeping the planet and it all involves ideologies and in particular, god nutters. Rump is just another crazed ideologue, no different to any country or state leader and if people just sat back, snapped out of their zombie approach to the future and looked at the reality of the political world. They'd soon see the truth and maybe make some changes in their approach to the future.

How is the Rump any different to Moronison, or the deranged Johnston or Macron, Putin, Xi, Netanyahu. They are all corrupt and it's the same around the planet, the only decent ones if there are any, are rare and mostly get dumbed down but the system. The Rump has the bigger and more guns than anyone else at the moment, so he fluffs his feathers and struts round like the king with no clothes and everyone can see he's a waste of space, but they just put on their rose coloured glasses and lock out reality.

To my mind, there are more pressing political discussions that could be discussed, rather than the collapse of a society, when our own is following close behind.

Our wonderful governments have put our capabilities of surviving decades backwards. Same with global warming, same with health, same with everything. The Rump is a brainless drop kick, he will start a war, his ego just couldn't stand not believing he can do it any time he wants and will to prove the USA is back.

You can't moralise about war, it's the act of trying to kill, take over and destroy at any cost other than the leaders and ideological elites. To claim killing a combatant one way is immoral and yet another way is moral, is pathetic. In war it's kill or be killed and anything goes to save yours and others lives. It has always included the slaughter of non combatants, that's a tactic used by all sides in every war through out history and it will never change.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby karlrand » 25 Jan 2020, 18:00

Dax wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


The USA is no different to other countries, politically, ideologically, social and ecologically. So there is no argument as to it being any more relevant to any other form of political corruption sweeping the planet and it all involves ideologies and in particular, god nutters. Rump is just another crazed ideologue, no different to any country or state leader and if people just sat back, snapped out of their zombie approach to the future and looked at the reality of the political world. They'd soon see the truth and maybe make some changes in their approach to the future.

How is the Rump any different to Moronison, or the deranged Johnston or Macron, Putin, Xi, Netanyahu. They are all corrupt and it's the same around the planet, the only decent ones if there are any, are rare and mostly get dumbed down but the system. The Rump has the bigger and more guns than anyone else at the moment, so he fluffs his feathers and struts round like the king with no clothes and everyone can see he's a waste of space, but they just put on their rose coloured glasses and lock out reality.

To my mind, there are more pressing political discussions that could be discussed, rather than the collapse of a society, when our own is following close behind.

Our wonderful governments have put our capabilities of surviving decades backwards. Same with global warming, same with health, same with everything. The Rump is a brainless drop kick, he will start a war, his ego just couldn't stand not believing he can do it any time he wants and will to prove the USA is back.

You can't moralise about war, it's the act of trying to kill, take over and destroy at any cost other than the leaders and ideological elites. To claim killing a combatant one way is immoral and yet another way is moral, is pathetic. In war it's kill or be killed and anything goes to save yours and others lives. It has always included the slaughter of non combatants, that's a tactic used by all sides in every war through out history and it will never change.

A great deal to agree with here but can we please just pause for a moment and look outside of the usual suspects of ideology, religion and power and spend a little time contemplating ourselves as a species and whether or not we deserve to survive.
And why can’t we moralise about war? Are such actions amoral?
Groupthink will destroy us all.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby Dax » 26 Jan 2020, 04:05

karlrand wrote:
Dax wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


The USA is no different to other countries, politically, ideologically, social and ecologically. So there is no argument as to it being any more relevant to any other form of political corruption sweeping the planet and it all involves ideologies and in particular, god nutters. Rump is just another crazed ideologue, no different to any country or state leader and if people just sat back, snapped out of their zombie approach to the future and looked at the reality of the political world. They'd soon see the truth and maybe make some changes in their approach to the future.

How is the Rump any different to Moronison, or the deranged Johnston or Macron, Putin, Xi, Netanyahu. They are all corrupt and it's the same around the planet, the only decent ones if there are any, are rare and mostly get dumbed down but the system. The Rump has the bigger and more guns than anyone else at the moment, so he fluffs his feathers and struts round like the king with no clothes and everyone can see he's a waste of space, but they just put on their rose coloured glasses and lock out reality.

To my mind, there are more pressing political discussions that could be discussed, rather than the collapse of a society, when our own is following close behind.

Our wonderful governments have put our capabilities of surviving decades backwards. Same with global warming, same with health, same with everything. The Rump is a brainless drop kick, he will start a war, his ego just couldn't stand not believing he can do it any time he wants and will to prove the USA is back.

You can't moralise about war, it's the act of trying to kill, take over and destroy at any cost other than the leaders and ideological elites. To claim killing a combatant one way is immoral and yet another way is moral, is pathetic. In war it's kill or be killed and anything goes to save yours and others lives. It has always included the slaughter of non combatants, that's a tactic used by all sides in every war through out history and it will never change.

A great deal to agree with here but can we please just pause for a moment and look outside of the usual suspects of ideology, religion and power and spend a little time contemplating ourselves as a species and whether or not we deserve to survive.
And why can’t we moralise about war? Are such actions amoral?


Religion ideology and power are one and the same thing, if there were no fanciful belief systems, there wouldn't be the problems we have today. All our problems revolve around religion and other fantasy beliefs and those in power are also religious.
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Re: New Topic? Again?

Postby DonDeeHippy » 26 Jan 2020, 05:47

Dax wrote:
karlrand wrote:
Dax wrote:
karlrand wrote:I haven’t dredged through every thread in this section but it appears complete boredom with the US Impeachment process has set in. Fair enough, it’s all been very tedious and predictable BUT given the possibility Trump will get off this time and may be re-elected we need to ask what the implications are in having an unhinged and unleashed dictator in the Whitehouse. I suggest it’s no exaggeration to suspect we may see the death of democracy in the US given it’s been on it’s knees since Trump first ascended the Whitehouse throne.


The USA is no different to other countries, politically, ideologically, social and ecologically. So there is no argument as to it being any more relevant to any other form of political corruption sweeping the planet and it all involves ideologies and in particular, god nutters. Rump is just another crazed ideologue, no different to any country or state leader and if people just sat back, snapped out of their zombie approach to the future and looked at the reality of the political world. They'd soon see the truth and maybe make some changes in their approach to the future.

How is the Rump any different to Moronison, or the deranged Johnston or Macron, Putin, Xi, Netanyahu. They are all corrupt and it's the same around the planet, the only decent ones if there are any, are rare and mostly get dumbed down but the system. The Rump has the bigger and more guns than anyone else at the moment, so he fluffs his feathers and struts round like the king with no clothes and everyone can see he's a waste of space, but they just put on their rose coloured glasses and lock out reality.

To my mind, there are more pressing political discussions that could be discussed, rather than the collapse of a society, when our own is following close behind.

Our wonderful governments have put our capabilities of surviving decades backwards. Same with global warming, same with health, same with everything. The Rump is a brainless drop kick, he will start a war, his ego just couldn't stand not believing he can do it any time he wants and will to prove the USA is back.

You can't moralise about war, it's the act of trying to kill, take over and destroy at any cost other than the leaders and ideological elites. To claim killing a combatant one way is immoral and yet another way is moral, is pathetic. In war it's kill or be killed and anything goes to save yours and others lives. It has always included the slaughter of non combatants, that's a tactic used by all sides in every war through out history and it will never change.

A great deal to agree with here but can we please just pause for a moment and look outside of the usual suspects of ideology, religion and power and spend a little time contemplating ourselves as a species and whether or not we deserve to survive.
And why can’t we moralise about war? Are such actions amoral?


Religion ideology and power are one and the same thing, if there were no fanciful belief systems, there wouldn't be the problems we have today. All our problems revolve around religion and other fantasy beliefs and those in power are also religious.

Except communists but then they don't count... :purple
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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