Recognition of Aborigines

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Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 11 Jul 2019, 17:03

What’s going on!

I thought that they got rid of mentioning individual racial group within our constitution, as it was viewed as not being inclusive and discriminative.
This removed any discrimination and gave everyone equal rights.

Are the Aboriginal lobbyists pushing to reintroduce the racial definition for a their group?

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby DreamRyderX » 12 Jul 2019, 10:34

Chuck wrote:What’s going on!

I thought that they got rid of mentioning individual racial group within our constitution, as it was viewed as not being inclusive and discriminative.
This removed any discrimination and gave everyone equal rights.

Are the Aboriginal lobbyists pushing to reintroduce the racial definition for a their group?

Chuck


I don't think it's being pushed to define the racial aspects of the group, but to force those who never had anything to do with that racial group's hardships some other way to express another empty, but nicely worded "SORRY", with probable political & legal ramifications to benefit one group over others. Image
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 12 Jul 2019, 10:50

I believe they are pushing to change the previously amended constitution, so it mentions them as a distinct racial group.
That should allow them to have seats set aside for them in parliament.

Before we go down this path we need to determine who is defined as an Aboriginal?
We can’t allow someone who only has a 'spit' of indigenous blood claiming extra benefits etc.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Dax » 12 Jul 2019, 11:55

Chuck wrote:I believe they are pushing to change the previously amended constitution, so it mentions them as a distinct racial group.
That should allow them to have seats set aside for them in parliament.

Before we go down this path we need to determine who is defined as an Aboriginal?
We can’t allow someone who only has a 'spit' of indigenous blood claiming extra benefits etc.

Chuck


But they do, the definition of Aus indigenous is self described, accepted into country and not genetic. There are many claiming indigenous heritage and yet genetically have no biological connection whatsoever, many of them come from pacific islands,

What they want is an indigenous consultation group involved in parliament and with an authorised say on decisions, like a third house of parliament and with veto rights, as part of the constitution.

Personally as a person who has cultural and genetic association with indigenous heritage, thinks it's a step back and would become very divisive. Those behind it are radicals, who are looking for power and to disrupt society.

Of course indigenous should be recognised as the being here before Europeans and the wonderful job they did of keeping the country as pristine and filled with nature as it once was, before European christian idiots arrived and destroyed the country. There are very few if any indigenous who don't have European blood within them. Plus there may have been others before current indigenous and the Mungo family is evidence of that possibility.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby mothra » 12 Jul 2019, 13:40

Chuck wrote:I believe they are pushing to change the previously amended constitution, so it mentions them as a distinct racial group.
That should allow them to have seats set aside for them in parliament.

Before we go down this path we need to determine who is defined as an Aboriginal?
We can’t allow someone who only has a 'spit' of indigenous blood claiming extra benefits etc.

Chuck


You know most Aboriginal people are not in favour of the proposed changes?

Now you do, carry on with your ignorant racism.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 12 Jul 2019, 16:35

mothra wrote: But they do, the definition of Aus indigenous is self described, accepted into country and not genetic.
Doesn’t that open the door to exploit this lax definition for benefits?
Does that mean that if u believe that u qualify or are accepted by the Aboriginal community as indigenous, it is sufficient to get extra benefits.

If it was tightened up, more funds allocated for indigenous services would go to the most needy.

mothra wrote:You know most Aboriginal people are not in favour of the proposed changes?
Now you do, carry on with your ignorant racism.
Touchy, Touchy.... Asking for further info about any affairs dealing with Aborigines is immediately labelled as racist!

It sounds like u believe that delving into such things may affect ur personal financial interest.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby mothra » 12 Jul 2019, 17:41

Chuck wrote:
mothra wrote: But they do, the definition of Aus indigenous is self described, accepted into country and not genetic.
Doesn’t that open the door to exploit this lax definition for benefits?
Does that mean that if u believe that u qualify or are accepted by the Aboriginal community as indigenous, it is sufficient to get extra benefits.

If it was tightened up, more funds allocated for indigenous services would go to the most needy.

mothra wrote:You know most Aboriginal people are not in favour of the proposed changes?
Now you do, carry on with your ignorant racism.
Touchy, Touchy.... Asking for further info about any affairs dealing with Aborigines is immediately labelled as racist!

It sounds like u believe that delving into such things may affect ur personal financial interest.

Chuck


They don't get any extra benefits. It's a racist myth. Expect to be called a racist for parroting it.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigin

Postby Chuck » 12 Jul 2019, 19:18

mothra wrote:They don't get any extra benefits. It's a racist myth. Expect to be called a racist for parroting it.
So why is there funding set aside for indigenous affairs.
This set aside funding has racial connotation, when the norm would be that indigenous people should be incorporated into the main stream system.

Where I live there is a specific medical clinic for indigenous people.

Is there any other country that is so lax in there definition of indigenous people.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby johnsmith » 12 Jul 2019, 20:00

Chuck wrote:So why is there funding set aside for indigenous affairs.


to grease the palms of their donors.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/15/minister-approved-460000-indigenous-funding-for-fishing-and-cattle-groups

don't let the fact that it's called funding for 'indigenous affairs' fool you into thinking that it actually goes to aborigines. More often than not it money paid to white man to tell black man how to live.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 12 Jul 2019, 20:45

johnsmith wrote:don't let the fact that it's called funding for 'indigenous affairs' fool you into thinking that it actually goes to aborigines. More often than not it money paid to white man to tell black man how to live.
Do u mean the urban aborigines that are 'white' and supposed to allocate funding to the real aborigines?

But a poster mentioned that no extra benefits is gained even if ur designated as an aboriginal compared to the general community.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby DonDeeHippy » 13 Jul 2019, 07:01

Chuck wrote:What’s going on!

I thought that they got rid of mentioning individual racial group within our constitution, as it was viewed as not being inclusive and discriminative.
This removed any discrimination and gave everyone equal rights.

Are the Aboriginal lobbyists pushing to reintroduce the racial definition for a their group?

Chuck

Could you find a link for me on this subject, I've been searching google and found nothing about it, maybe a name of the group wanting the changes.... :purple
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 13 Jul 2019, 10:57

DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:What’s going on!

I thought that they got rid of mentioning individual racial group within our constitution, as it was viewed as not being inclusive and discriminative.
This removed any discrimination and gave everyone equal rights.

Are the Aboriginal lobbyists pushing to reintroduce the racial definition for a their group?

Chuck
Could you find a link for me on this subject, I've been searching google and found nothing about it, maybe a name of the group wanting the changes.... :purple
I think Mortha is the best person to inform u about Ken Wyatt - the current Minister for Indigenous Affairs- who has a desire to re-install the word 'Aboriginal' back into constitution.
My understanding is that it was previously removed from the wording in the constitution because of racial grouping.

The following is an extract from a media source:
The previous Turnbull government rejected the key recommendation of the Uluru Statement, that there be a constitutionally enshrined "voice" – a representative body allowing Indigenous people to advise and inform government policy. Prime Minister Scott Morrison was among many who called it a "third chamber" of Parliament.

What upset Mortha was me mentioning that before going down this path, we should have a better definition of whom is considered an 'Aboriginal', purely for Aboriginal funding purposes.

This doesn’t stop them claiming that they are Indigenous, it simply excludes them from funds or programs targeted for the purer and most needy of Indigenous people.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Bongalong » 13 Jul 2019, 13:21

Chuck wrote:I believe they are pushing to change the previously amended constitution, so it mentions them as a distinct racial group.
That should allow them to have seats set aside for them in parliament.

Before we go down this path we need to determine who is defined as an Aboriginal?
We can’t allow someone who only has a 'spit' of indigenous blood claiming extra benefits etc.

Chuck

Before you use the word 'we' I demand you claim yourself as an Australian!

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby johnsmith » 13 Jul 2019, 17:29

Chuck wrote:
johnsmith wrote:don't let the fact that it's called funding for 'indigenous affairs' fool you into thinking that it actually goes to aborigines. More often than not it money paid to white man to tell black man how to live.
Do u mean the urban aborigines that are 'white' and supposed to allocate funding to the real aborigines?

But a poster mentioned that no extra benefits is gained even if ur designated as an aboriginal compared to the general community.

Chuck



any 'urban abo' on benefits gets as much as any other whitey on benefits. They do not receive any extras no matter how many times you say it.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Bongalong » 13 Jul 2019, 17:34

johnsmith wrote:
Chuck wrote:
johnsmith wrote:don't let the fact that it's called funding for 'indigenous affairs' fool you into thinking that it actually goes to aborigines. More often than not it money paid to white man to tell black man how to live.
Do u mean the urban aborigines that are 'white' and supposed to allocate funding to the real aborigines?

But a poster mentioned that no extra benefits is gained even if ur designated as an aboriginal compared to the general community.

Chuck



any 'urban abo' on benefits gets as much as any other whitey on benefits. They do not receive any extras no matter how many times you say it.

So it becomes a definition game: ie a tax/subsidy game!
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby hatty » 13 Jul 2019, 18:07

it's no game to me...... games are supposed to be fun or useful.

the fact that this is first time in australia's history.......

we have a minister for indigenous affairs who is actually......... you know....... indigenous!

yeah that pesky lot who have looked after this continent lovingly for 60,000 years.

i can cope with that.

that......... (if catholics wish to do the maths.)...... is 58000 years longer than that jesus dude supposedly (lol) rose from the dead..

i for one welcome this appointment
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 13 Jul 2019, 18:36

Bongalong wrote: Before you use the word 'we' I demand you claim yourself as an Australian!
I’m an Australian who was cared by a full blooded Aboriginal -he appeared to me to be full blooded- medic caring for me during the Vietnam war era.

Drank with many part Aboriginal's and islanders during my service life and continued trying as a civilian to instil trade knowledge to part Aboriginals who were my apprentice.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Bongalong » 13 Jul 2019, 18:41

hatty wrote:it's no game to me...... games are supposed to be fun or useful.

the fact that this is first time in australia's history.......

we have a minister for indigenous affairs who is actually......... you know....... indigenous!

yeah that pesky lot who have looked after this continent lovingly for 60,000 years.

i can cope with that.

that......... (if catholics wish to do the maths.)...... is 58000 years longer than that jesus dude supposedly (lol) rose from the dead..

i for one welcome this appointment

hatty: you're going full dickhead buddy lol :beer be careful your mom don't hate ya lol :OMG :OMG :OMG :OMG :OMG :OMG :OMG :OMG
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Bongalong » 13 Jul 2019, 18:43

Chuck wrote:
Bongalong wrote: Before you use the word 'we' I demand you claim yourself as an Australian!
I’m an Australian who was cared by a full blooded Aboriginal -he appeared to me to be full blooded- medic caring for me during the Vietnam war era.

Drank with many part Aboriginal's and islanders during my service life and continued trying as a civilian to instil trade knowledge to part Aboriginals who were my apprentice.

Chuck

Yo9u're just a cartoonish f head buddy: lol :beer
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 13 Jul 2019, 18:50

johnsmith wrote:any 'urban abo' on benefits gets as much as any other whitey on benefits. They do not receive any extras no matter how many times you say it.
Then why are quoters set aside for these predominantly Caucasian Aborigines at Uni's, defence forces and even the RSL has scholarships specifically for them.

This basically infers that their mental faculties isn’t up to the general public’s standards. - it unintentionally amounts to racial distinction on intelligence.

The majority of Urban White Aborigines have no excuse not being on par in competing with the general community.

Maybe we should follow the Hawaiian example in defining who should qualify for any form of assistance.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 13 Jul 2019, 19:06

Bongalong wrote:Yo9u're just a cartoonish f head buddy: lol
Is that the best u can come up with!

It just prove how low the intelligence of some posters are on this website!

Maybe u should participate in a website specifically designed for people who attend special schools.

U might be able claim ur Internet fees on NDIS.

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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby johnsmith » 13 Jul 2019, 22:37

Chuck wrote:
johnsmith wrote:any 'urban abo' on benefits gets as much as any other whitey on benefits. They do not receive any extras no matter how many times you say it.
Then why are quoters set aside for these predominantly Caucasian Aborigines at Uni's, defence forces and even the RSL has scholarships specifically for them.

This basically infers that their mental faculties isn’t up to the general public’s standards. - it unintentionally amounts to racial distinction on intelligence.

The majority of Urban White Aborigines have no excuse not being on par in competing with the general community.

Maybe we should follow the Hawaiian example in defining who should qualify for any form of assistance.

Chuck


Now you're moving the goal posts and going from 'extra benefits' to something else altogether. But I'll answer anyway.

typically quotas are used to counter institutionalised racism. What used to happen (and still does in the private sector) was if a white man and an aboriginal applied for the same job, the white man would win almost every single time. Even when the abo had better qualifications or experience. The quotas are an attempt to level the playing field. Sure, it's not a perfect system, but until institutionalised racism is wiped out, it's what we're stuck with.
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby DonDeeHippy » 14 Jul 2019, 06:18

johnsmith wrote:
Chuck wrote:
johnsmith wrote:any 'urban abo' on benefits gets as much as any other whitey on benefits. They do not receive any extras no matter how many times you say it.
Then why are quoters set aside for these predominantly Caucasian Aborigines at Uni's, defence forces and even the RSL has scholarships specifically for them.

This basically infers that their mental faculties isn’t up to the general public’s standards. - it unintentionally amounts to racial distinction on intelligence.

The majority of Urban White Aborigines have no excuse not being on par in competing with the general community.

Maybe we should follow the Hawaiian example in defining who should qualify for any form of assistance.

Chuck


Now you're moving the goal posts and going from 'extra benefits' to something else altogether. But I'll answer anyway.

typically quotas are used to counter institutionalised racism. What used to happen (and still does in the private sector) was if a white man and an aboriginal applied for the same job, the white man would win almost every single time. Even when the abo had better qualifications or experience. The quotas are an attempt to level the playing field. Sure, it's not a perfect system, but until institutionalised racism is wiped out, it's what we're stuck with.

yes it's very easy to overlook employer discrimination, in the construction trade see very few aboriginals or even women, just a bunch of ugly stinky white guys....a few kiwi's but only in certain jobs.....
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby DonDeeHippy » 14 Jul 2019, 06:50

Chuck wrote:
DonDeeHippy wrote:
Chuck wrote:What’s going on!

I thought that they got rid of mentioning individual racial group within our constitution, as it was viewed as not being inclusive and discriminative.
This removed any discrimination and gave everyone equal rights.

Are the Aboriginal lobbyists pushing to reintroduce the racial definition for a their group?

Chuck
Could you find a link for me on this subject, I've been searching google and found nothing about it, maybe a name of the group wanting the changes.... :purple
I think Mortha is the best person to inform u about Ken Wyatt - the current Minister for Indigenous Affairs- who has a desire to re-install the word 'Aboriginal' back into constitution.
My understanding is that it was previously removed from the wording in the constitution because of racial grouping.

The following is an extract from a media source:
The previous Turnbull government rejected the key recommendation of the Uluru Statement, that there be a constitutionally enshrined "voice" – a representative body allowing Indigenous people to advise and inform government policy. Prime Minister Scott Morrison was among many who called it a "third chamber" of Parliament.

What upset Mortha was me mentioning that before going down this path, we should have a better definition of whom is considered an 'Aboriginal', purely for Aboriginal funding purposes.

This doesn’t stop them claiming that they are Indigenous, it simply excludes them from funds or programs targeted for the purer and most needy of Indigenous people.

Chuck

thanks for the heads up chuck, I was able to find quite a bit about Ken Wyatt
here is his maiden speech
https://www.smh.com.au/national/walk-wi ... 525rx.html

As far as changing the constitution it's been 52 years since the last change about Aboriginals and it looks like it will be a hard sell to get everyone happy on the terms, I think if it makes our country a better place all good , if it make is more decisive then bad, so far Wyatt have been very vague on the details... for me it will be a wait and see..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-12/ ... l/11302246
a good article about the constitution changes.

As for Mothra you must be a mind reader to know what she is thinking..... Amazing :purple
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Re: Recognition of Aborigines

Postby Chuck » 14 Jul 2019, 10:05

johnsmith wrote:
Chuck wrote:Maybe we should follow the Hawaiian example in defining who should qualify for any form of assistance.

Now you're moving the goal posts and going from 'extra benefits' to something else altogether. But I'll answer anyway...... The quotas are an attempt to level the playing field. Sure, it's not a perfect system, but until institutionalised racism is wiped out, it's what we're stuck with.
I don’t believe that I have shifted the goal post at all.
Setting a quote is a benefit for a designated group which usually involves seperate funding either from a govt. or private organisation.

Definition of benefit
transitive verb: to be useful or profitable to. intransitive verb: to receive help or an advantage

All I have been saying is that these benefits should be targeted for Aboriginal whose bloodline hasn’t been diluted to virtually none existence.

I think the Hawaiian standard is a good example for benefits entitlements, this doesn’t preclude an individual from claiming that they are Indigenous on the Hawaiian census.

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