Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

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Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 14 May 2019, 18:25

Under the current economic climate, a couple on a full govt pension are receiving the earning capacity of over $1 million dollars.

They are in a privileged position of getting a guaranteed, indexed income without any risk involved, with financial stress

So one can concluded that they are receiving a ' Millionaire's Income' from the govt.

To make the system fairer everyone should get a pension, and the pension should form part of assessable income for tax purposes. This would eliminate any stress to retirees who aren’t entitled to a govt. pension.

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby HBS Guy » 14 May 2019, 19:28

Over what period of time is that $1m earned?
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 14 May 2019, 20:25

Note! I mentioned the earning capacity of $1million, with the closet minimum risk factor in the market that emulates the
guaranteed full pension that a couple get.

That’s, that $1 million will earn u less than $34,000 a year.

Recall, that retirees are encouraged to keep their risk to a minimum as they age.

Many retirees are risking their capital just to get a bit of extra income from the sharemarket etc.

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 15 May 2019, 01:33

So, they are retired... and they shouldn't have to use their capital... at all?? Why not? That is what saving and planning for retirement is all about. NOT that you get free gifts from every other taxpayer , but that you plan and use your funds wisely.

Who are they saving it for..?

Bad moves by Howard are now coming home to roost. And frankly ( excuse the pun) those who have been getting taxpayer money as refunds, when they don't pay tax is a scam. They've benefited from it, but no more free rides people.
It's good enough for young people to be scrutinised,, well so should these wealthy older people who are whinging because the free ride is being removed... and rightly so.

I 'm a government pensioner. I don't own any shares. No poor people do. They've had their taxpayer -provided excesses... Now.. they get to be like the rest of us. So?? sell your shares you rich c.....!!!
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 15 May 2019, 15:23

pinkeye wrote: And frankly ( excuse the pun) those who have been getting taxpayer money as refunds, when they don't pay tax is a scam. They've benefited from it, but no more free rides people.
It's good enough for young people to be scrutinised,, well so should these wealthy older people who are whinging because the free ride is being removed... and rightly so.

I 'm a government pensioner. I don't own any shares. No poor people do. They've had their taxpayer -provided excesses... Now.. they get to be like the rest of us. So?? sell your shares you rich c.....!!!


Pinkeye, I suggest u speak to Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen, because they’re simply ignoring ur comments.

Both are prepared to give a free ride to wealthy part or full pensioners who are owners of a few shares. By buying votes from a section of retirees to create devision amongst them.

For all I know, you could have arranged ur affairs and live in a million dollar property and still get the full pension, and claim that ur poor.

I live in a $350,000 house in a working class suburb with my wife and I receive an income stream from an industry super with a bit of franking credit. The total amount isn’t much more then a couple on a full govt pension.

BS and CB claim that they aren’t creating divisions within the community. They have redefined what constitutes being wealthy and got two retirees arguing amongst themselves.

The simplest solution is to give everyone the pensions and an added this at tax time as assessable income.

NZ and UK can do it. Why can’t we?

Just remember it was Keating and Hawke that put down the foundation stone for our privatisation misery and the demise of the Union movement.

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 16 May 2019, 03:21

Chuck wrote:Under the current economic climate, a couple on a full govt pension are receiving the earning capacity of over $1 million dollars.

They are in a privileged position of getting a guaranteed, indexed income without any risk involved, with financial stress

So one can concluded that they are receiving a ' Millionaire's Income' from the govt.

To make the system fairer everyone should get a pension, and the pension should form part of assessable income for tax purposes. This would eliminate any stress to retirees who aren’t entitled to a govt. pension.

Chuck



Currently the Aged and Disability pension from the federal government IS assessable income. Once a person has reached the age of 65.

BUT... it is such a LOW yearly amount that it is ALWAYS below the tax-free threshold.

No tax is payable by people on incomes below the tax-free threshold.

The government pension is reduced by 50c for every other dollar of income from other sources.

If, on paper, no yearly income tax is due, no TAX REFUND is allowed. .


But THESE people, who are wealthy enough to own income producing shares, which come with the credit for the tax paid by the company, , but DON"T PAY TAX, they should not be gifted this credit. It means NO tax is paid into govt coffers , from these shares/companies. It is simply unaffordable.


These people should just accept they've recieved a windfall for years, from a previous govts vote-buying, accept the facts, and MOVE ON. I have no wish to continue to fund their retirement.


It isn't that hard...
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 16 May 2019, 03:31

You refer to living on a pension,, an industry super fund payment.

So you have no direct interest in this really. Why would you expect some tax refund.? You don't pay tax.

Your income stream, as a pension, coming from an industry super fund, means you understand where you are getting your income from.
It is either fully self-funded, or you, like me, receive a part govt pension,, based on the income from your personal fund.

I just fail to understand your point here. What are you whinging about.?
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 16 May 2019, 14:46

pinkeye wrote:Currently the Aged and Disability pension from the federal government IS assessable income. Once a person has reached the age of 65.

BUT... it is such a LOW yearly amount that it is ALWAYS below the tax-free threshold.

No tax is payable by people on incomes below the tax-free threshold.

The government pension is reduced by 50c for every other dollar of income from other sources.

If, on paper, no yearly income tax is due, no TAX REFUND is allowed. .


But THESE people, who are wealthy enough to own income producing shares, which come with the credit for the tax paid by the company, , but DON"T PAY TAX, they should not be gifted this credit. It means NO tax is paid into govt coffers , from these shares/companies. It is simply unaffordable.


BS mid-stream exempted pensioners who receive a part govt pension or some form of govt allowance and remain under tax threshold. Entitling them to receive the cash refund if they are owners of shares.

Ur simply peddling miss info!

It appears we really don’t have a budget problem when he can selectively excluded a group of retirees that shouldn’t be entitled to the cash refund.

Don’t get me started about the struggling families - just go Macca's and Target toy dept. They are best economists that the country has!

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 16 May 2019, 22:45

Chuck wrote:
pinkeye wrote:Currently the Aged and Disability pension from the federal government IS assessable income. Once a person has reached the age of 65.

BUT... it is such a LOW yearly amount that it is ALWAYS below the tax-free threshold.

No tax is payable by people on incomes below the tax-free threshold.

The government pension is reduced by 50c for every other dollar of income from other sources.

If, on paper, no yearly income tax is due, no TAX REFUND is allowed. .


But THESE people, who are wealthy enough to own income producing shares, which come with the credit for the tax paid by the company, , but DON"T PAY TAX, they should not be gifted this credit. It means NO tax is paid into govt coffers , from these shares/companies. It is simply unaffordable.


BS mid-stream exempted pensioners who receive a part govt pension or some form of govt allowance and remain under tax threshold. Entitling them to receive the cash refund if they are owners of shares.

Ur simply peddling miss info!

It appears we really don’t have a budget problem when he can selectively excluded a group of retirees that shouldn’t be entitled to the cash refund.

Don’t get me started about the struggling families - just go Macca's and Target toy dept. They are best economists that the country has!

Chuck



I really cannot understand what u are saying -- hi-lighted above.

U think Shorten wants people not entitled.. to get a refund..?
That is all the sense I can make from your posts.


BUT... you MUST UNDERSTAND...…. Labor wants TO REMOVE THESE entitlements, currently being recieved by a small number of share-holders..
I do hope that helps your confusion.
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 16 May 2019, 23:33

pinkeye wrote:
Chuck wrote:
pinkeye wrote:Currently the Aged and Disability pension from the federal government IS assessable income. Once a person has reached the age of 65.

BUT... it is such a LOW yearly amount that it is ALWAYS below the tax-free threshold.

No tax is payable by people on incomes below the tax-free threshold.

The government pension is reduced by 50c for every other dollar of income from other sources.

If, on paper, no yearly income tax is due, no TAX REFUND is allowed. .


But THESE people, who are wealthy enough to own income producing shares, which come with the credit for the tax paid by the company, , but DON"T PAY TAX, they should not be gifted this credit. It means NO tax is paid into govt coffers , from these shares/companies. It is simply unaffordable.


BS mid-stream exempted pensioners who receive a part govt pension or some form of govt allowance and remain under tax threshold. Entitling them to receive the cash refund if they are owners of shares.

Ur simply peddling miss info!

It appears we really don’t have a budget problem when he can selectively excluded a group of retirees that shouldn’t be entitled to the cash refund.

Don’t get me started about the struggling families - just go Macca's and Target toy dept. They are best economists that the country has!

Chuck



I really cannot understand what u are saying -- hi-lighted above.

U think Shorten wants people not entitled.. to get a refund..?
That is all the sense I can make from your posts.


BUT... you MUST UNDERSTAND...…. Labor wants TO REMOVE THESE entitlements, currently being recieved by a small number of share-holders..
I do hope that helps your confusion.


Initially, BS and CB stated that any non-paying taxpayer would not be entitled to a cash refund.
Later on in his campaign he decided to give the cash refund to anyone on govt pension or gets a government allowance, even if they are below the tax threshold of $18,200!

Hope, that clears it up ur understanding of the ALP policy or simply go to their web site

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 17 May 2019, 00:10

BS and CB..? What are u on about. I don't think you understand.

these laws were brought in initially, to prevent double taxation of dividends. IE INCOME from shares..(which had already had tax paid by the company)
This income would be taxed in full, THEN a rebate of tax was allowed against that income to individuals, to prevent double-taxation.

Get that ?? TAXATION..? If you are poor govt or part govt pensioner who recieves less than the tax free threhold, YOU DON'T PAY TAX. Where do you think the refunds to these fortunate but wealthy few, comes from.?

You clearly don't understand...

DO YOU OWN SHARES IN YOU OWN RIGHT.? DO YOU PAY TAX? Then you'll get an equal amount, up to the tax YOU PAY.

YOU don't pay tax? NO REFUND. What is your difficulty...??
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 17 May 2019, 00:20

You need to have a more educated understanding of the definitions of assessable income, rebate and refund.Also tax payable.

You are so ignorant, you are getting your knickers in a knot, as are lots of others, because you/they lack understanding. This is not helped by all the misinformation out there.


NOBODY, pensioner or NOT, gets a refund for tax they never paid, EXCEPT for these franking credits.

Never works that way, but Howard wanted to win at all costs. WE pay for it.

If you happened to get income from dividends, which had franking credits attached, but you didn't pay tax, you aren't entitled to a refund... unless YOU are one of these special group. And hey no-one says they're all pensioners either. YOU are not understanding the basics.
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 17 May 2019, 00:25

SO… CHUCK... I'll repeat... no other country in the world does this. Show me I am wrong. :bgrin :bike :bike :bike
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby johnsmith » 17 May 2019, 17:12

pinkeye wrote:BS and CB..? What are u on about. I don't think you understand.


His gripe is that pensioners will continue to get a refund and he won't



jealousy is a curse :roll :roll
FD.
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 17 May 2019, 18:09

johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:BS and CB..? What are u on about. I don't think you understand.


His gripe is that pensioners will continue to get a refund and he won't



jealousy is a curse :roll :roll


Yes!

Everyone should carry the burden to fix the budget. Not just a targeted group.

Don’t get me started on what BH legacy was passed on to BS.

I was in the Union for over 30 years and have no respect for this man! All I liked about him, was his larrikinism.

I will leave it that as a sign of respect for the moment.

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby johnsmith » 17 May 2019, 19:27

chucky thinks he lives in Narnia. :jump
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 17 May 2019, 19:31

johnsmith wrote:chucky thinks he lives in Narnia. :jump

It actually the reverse!

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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby johnsmith » 17 May 2019, 19:43

Chuck wrote:
johnsmith wrote:chucky thinks he lives in Narnia. :jump

It actually the reverse!

Chuck



and yet you're the one crying govt fiscal policy doesn't affect everyone equally. :rofl :rofl :rofl

In all fiscal policy,m there are winners and losers.
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby pinkeye » 17 May 2019, 23:23

johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:BS and CB..? What are u on about. I don't think you understand.


His gripe is that pensioners will continue to get a refund and he won't



jealousy is a curse :roll :roll



Pensioners will get a refund..? Please explain, for all our benefit
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby johnsmith » 18 May 2019, 09:22

pinkeye wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:BS and CB..? What are u on about. I don't think you understand.


His gripe is that pensioners will continue to get a refund and he won't



jealousy is a curse :roll :roll



Pensioners will get a refund..? Please explain, for all our benefit



pensioners are exempt from the changes bill is making Pink. If you're a part pensioner and you get a imputation credit refund, you will continue to do so. That wasn't part of bills original plan but he is trying to win an election.

The way I see it, it's the same result, only it will take a little longer to get there. As these pensioners die off the burden on the tax system will reduce.
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Re: Wealthy Govt. Pensioners.

Postby Chuck » 18 May 2019, 12:43

pinkeye wrote:Pensioners will get a refund..? Please explain, for all our benefit


For ur benefit Pinkeye.

Labor’s Pensioner Guarantee
The Pensioner Guarantee means pensioners and allowance recipients will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess dividend imputation credits when the policy commences in July 2019.

Self-managed superannuation funds with at least one pensioner or allowance recipientbefore 28 March 2018 will also be exempt from the changes.

This means that every pensioner will still be able to benefit from cash refunds.

I believe that I’m entitled to the cash refund but Labor' website keeps changing basically weekly. So who kno!

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