'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:25

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.


What's that got to do with anything? In a democracy, there is no right or wrong, only the will of the people. If the will of the people is to throw him and his family in jail, then he shall accede to that.



why do you have to take everything to stupid? we're talking about government you fool


You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 19:32

Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:32

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl


I don't take your meaning.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 20:18

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl


I don't take your meaning.


of course not :slap

was your 'El presidente' about your system of government, or was it about appointing a new high court judge?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:07

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl


I don't take your meaning.


of course not :slap

was your 'El presidente' about your system of government, or was it about appointing a new high court judge?


It was about a system of government.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 21:09

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl


I don't take your meaning.


of course not :slap

was your 'El presidente' about your system of government, or was it about appointing a new high court judge?


It was about a system of government.



then the conversation that followed was also about a system of govt. and not the judicial system :roll
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:11

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:You weren't talking about government, you were talking about people's attitudes to the monarchy and their will in a democracy.

Government is a different matter.


so when you said 'I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create', you were talking about the courts?

:rofl


I don't take your meaning.


of course not :slap

was your 'El presidente' about your system of government, or was it about appointing a new high court judge?


It was about a system of government.



then the conversation that followed was also about a system of govt. and not the judicial system :roll


You can certainly skew it that way to make yourself feel better.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 21:13

I'll leave any skewing to you. Pretend it was about the judicial system if that makes you feel better. Everyone else knows the truth.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:14

johnsmith wrote:I'll leave any skewing to you. Pretend it was about the judicial system if that makes you feel better. Everyone else knows the truth.


You seem to be implying that the Judiciary can go against the will of the people?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 21:17

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I'll leave any skewing to you. Pretend it was about the judicial system if that makes you feel better. Everyone else knows the truth.


You seem to be implying that the Judiciary can go against the will of the people?



the judiciary can follow only one rule, the rule of law.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:29

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I'll leave any skewing to you. Pretend it was about the judicial system if that makes you feel better. Everyone else knows the truth.


You seem to be implying that the Judiciary can go against the will of the people?



the judiciary can follow only one rule, the rule of law.


So, if the Parliament introduced a Bill of Attainder, and would pass upon confirmation by the electorate, such Bill allowing you to be thrown in prison, then the judiciary must comply with the law.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 21:49

Auggie wrote:So, if the Parliament introduced a Bill of Attainder, and would pass upon confirmation by the electorate, such Bill allowing you to be thrown in prison, then the judiciary must comply with the law.


of course the judiciary must comply. It's no different to the govt being legally allowed to throw children into gulags, which they do now. The courts have no choice but to uphold the law as it stands.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 21:54

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:So, if the Parliament introduced a Bill of Attainder, and would pass upon confirmation by the electorate, such Bill allowing you to be thrown in prison, then the judiciary must comply with the law.


of course the judiciary must comply. It's no different to the govt being legally allowed to throw children into gulags, which they do now. The courts have no choice but to uphold the law as it stands.


So, what was your point initially?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 22:02

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:So, if the Parliament introduced a Bill of Attainder, and would pass upon confirmation by the electorate, such Bill allowing you to be thrown in prison, then the judiciary must comply with the law.


of course the judiciary must comply. It's no different to the govt being legally allowed to throw children into gulags, which they do now. The courts have no choice but to uphold the law as it stands.


So, what was your point initially?



are you being deliberately obtuse tonight?

one person, one vote
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 09 Nov 2018, 03:01

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
I showed it upon request before the stitches. Of course, at some point they will ask for it. But they will treat you without it.


I understand that, but after treatment, what if someone can't prove their ID?


Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Texan » 09 Nov 2018, 14:26

SethBullock wrote:
chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
I showed it upon request before the stitches. Of course, at some point they will ask for it. But they will treat you without it.


I understand that, but after treatment, what if someone can't prove their ID?


Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.


You only need an ID if you are voting or driving a car, and they don't mind breaking the law.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 09 Nov 2018, 15:07

Texan wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
I showed it upon request before the stitches. Of course, at some point they will ask for it. But they will treat you without it.


I understand that, but after treatment, what if someone can't prove their ID?


Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.


You only need an ID if you are voting or driving a car, and they don't mind breaking the law.


I remember one time I was on patrol in a residential area late at night when I saw this lone guy. I stopped and talked with him. He spoke no English. I asked him in Spanish for some ID, and he said he didn't have one. I asked him for his name, last name first.

"El Mexicano", he said.

First name?

"Jose".

Birth date? He gave me the birth date in Spanish, and I repeated it back to him in Spanish to make sure I had it right. Then I had my dispatch center run him ... Nothing. No driver license record, no wants, no previous contacts, no anything.

So I asked him again for his birth date, and this time he told me something different. Again, no record of anything. Since there was no crime committed, I ended the contact. (Giving an incorrect name or date of birth is only against the law if a person is under arrest for a crime.)

Back in my patrol car, I looked at my notes.

"Jose El Mexicano"

Translated: "Joe the Mexican".

I laughed to myself ... Freakin smartass ... True story.

Now if that guy breaks a leg and goes to ER, good luck ever collecting from him. Not going to happen. You know who's going to pay for that?

We are, that's who.

Seth
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 09 Nov 2018, 15:15

At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 09 Nov 2018, 15:18

Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


No.

My authority was to enforce state and local laws, and I had no way to verify his citizenship one way or the other.

I could arrest him on a federal warrant if there was one, but with that bogus name and date of birth, that wasn't going to happen.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Texan » 09 Nov 2018, 15:25

Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?

Technically, police can. When 0bama was president, we had a hard time getting the feds to cooperate and liberal cities are refusing to cooperate with the federal enforcement now. They call themselves "Sanctuary Cities". It's a major CF and illegals are rarely apprehended unless they commit a felony. They flood our public schools also. We often teach them in THEIR language.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 09 Nov 2018, 15:27

Texan wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?

Technically, police can. When 0bama was president, we had a hard time getting the feds to cooperate and liberal cities are refusing to cooperate with the federal enforcement now. They call themselves "Sanctuary Cities". It's a major CF and illegals are rarely apprehended unless they commit a felony. They flood our public schools also. We often teach them in THEIR language.


Well, I guess therein lies the problem.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby mothra » 09 Nov 2018, 16:42

Image
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 09 Nov 2018, 16:56

Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 09 Nov 2018, 17:07

mothra wrote:Image


Goring's belief may be true when there is no freedom of speech in a country, no freedom of the press, and no opposition party allowed either.

Where there is freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and opposition parties to the party in power, it's going to be damned hard to simply "tell them", as Goring put it, that someone or something is attacking them if it isn't. Damned hard. In a free, multi-political party country, it'll take a lot more than that.

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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby mothra » 09 Nov 2018, 18:23

SethBullock wrote:
mothra wrote:Image


Goring's belief may be true when there is no freedom of speech in a country, no freedom of the press, and no opposition party allowed either.

Where there is freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and opposition parties to the party in power, it's going to be damned hard to simply "tell them", as Goring put it, that someone or something is attacking them if it isn't. Damned hard. In a free, multi-political party country, it'll take a lot more than that.

Seth



Yes and what are the people being told about freedom of speech and the press, hmmm?

Any attacks on these things lately? Enemies of anybody are they?
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