'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 08 Nov 2018, 17:00

Texan wrote:Illegal alien" is the legal term that has been used to describe them for decades. It's not a derogatory term like "wet back".


johnsmith wrote:the US is a signatory to the UN refugee convention, right?
Someone coming to the US to claim asylum is not an 'illegal', they are legal within the confines of the UN refugee convention signed by the US government .


johnsmith wrote:No one said that the term illegal ONLY applies to asylum seekers.


Then why did you immediately jump to asylum seekers and the UN Convention after Texan just said, "Illegal alien is the legal term that has been used to describe them for decades?"
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 08 Nov 2018, 17:31

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Illegal aliens work under the table for cash, or they work with false ID's, or with false names and Social Security numbers. They move around. They change names like we change our clothes. If the hospital doesn't receive payment of their bill, they may call or write, only to find out the phone number and address are no longer good. So they turn it over to a collections company. Now how is that collections company going to run these people down and actually garnish their wages when they change names, employers, and addresses constantly?

A collections company could run me down easily, sue me, garnish wages, put a lien on my property, etc. But an illegal alien? Lotsa luck.


Oh sure, an illegal alien with fake documentation, absolutely. They are effectively a legal person as far as the hospital knows. However, it would be different for the less fortunate illegal aliens who don't have fake documentation wouldn't it? Also, you said that in you community, the hospital ER must take care of any patient. What law is that? And is it local, state or federal law? It was state or federal law, then it would be much more than just your "community" wouldn't it.


I did a little quick research, and it is a federal law. It's called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), and it was passed in 1986. Hospital emergency rooms must treat and stabilize patients with emergency problems. There are some loopholes in the law. For example, a hospital may decide that the problem is not an emergency, in which case, their obligation is over. So beyond the requirements of this law, the rest is left up to the hospital's policies. I know that in my area, the ERs will take care of anybody's acute or immediate problem. I lacerated my finger last year and got four or five stitches at my hospital ER. Had I had no insurance or no proof of ID, I still would have been given those stitches.

It's very hard to collect from illegal aliens even if you know their address and real name. They change jobs often, move, and often times don't even use banks, doing everything in cash. And even if you garnish the wages of some cannery worker earning $10/hour to pay back a $2500 bill, the collections company is going to get half of it, and it would take over 2 years at $100/month to get back only have of the bill. Legal resident aliens are by far more likely to pay their bills. Illegal aliens, generally speaking, simply move on, and we all just eat their medical expenses.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 08 Nov 2018, 18:07

SethBullock wrote:
I did a little quick research, and it is a federal law. It's called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), and it was passed in 1986. Hospital emergency rooms must treat and stabilize patients with emergency problems. There are some loopholes in the law. For example, a hospital may decide that the problem is not an emergency, in which case, their obligation is over. So beyond the requirements of this law, the rest is left up to the hospital's policies. I know that in my area, the ERs will take care of anybody's acute or immediate problem. I lacerated my finger last year and got four or five stitches at my hospital ER. Had I had no insurance or no proof of ID, I still would have been given those stitches.

It's very hard to collect from illegal aliens even if you know their address and real name. They change jobs often, move, and often times don't even use banks, doing everything in cash. And even if you garnish the wages of some cannery worker earning $10/hour to pay back a $2500 bill, the collections company is going to get half of it, and it would take over 2 years at $100/month to get back only have of the bill. Legal resident aliens are by far more likely to pay their bills. Illegal aliens, generally speaking, simply move on, and we all just eat their medical expenses.


Sounds to me like a problem with not requiring patients to prove their identity. I understand that in an emergency situation nobody is going to ask for ID prior to emergency treatment, even in the case of your finger. However, after your treatment, did you not have to show some ID?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 08 Nov 2018, 18:20

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
I did a little quick research, and it is a federal law. It's called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), and it was passed in 1986. Hospital emergency rooms must treat and stabilize patients with emergency problems. There are some loopholes in the law. For example, a hospital may decide that the problem is not an emergency, in which case, their obligation is over. So beyond the requirements of this law, the rest is left up to the hospital's policies. I know that in my area, the ERs will take care of anybody's acute or immediate problem. I lacerated my finger last year and got four or five stitches at my hospital ER. Had I had no insurance or no proof of ID, I still would have been given those stitches.

It's very hard to collect from illegal aliens even if you know their address and real name. They change jobs often, move, and often times don't even use banks, doing everything in cash. And even if you garnish the wages of some cannery worker earning $10/hour to pay back a $2500 bill, the collections company is going to get half of it, and it would take over 2 years at $100/month to get back only have of the bill. Legal resident aliens are by far more likely to pay their bills. Illegal aliens, generally speaking, simply move on, and we all just eat their medical expenses.


Sounds to me like a problem with not requiring patients to prove their identity. I understand that in an emergency situation nobody is going to ask for ID prior to emergency treatment, even in the case of your finger. However, after your treatment, did you not have to show some ID?


I showed it upon request before the stitches. Of course, at some point they will ask for it. But they will treat you without it. I'm a retired police officer. I can't even guess at how many Spanish speaking people I've encountered who had no ID other than some dodgy looking Mexican ID card. There was no way to verify those things. I could verify a state ID card or drivers license from anywhere in the U.S. in minutes, but nothing from south of the border. Is it a fake? Maybe, maybe not. You just had to go with it.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 08 Nov 2018, 18:29

SethBullock wrote:
I showed it upon request before the stitches. Of course, at some point they will ask for it. But they will treat you without it.


I understand that, but after treatment, what if someone can't prove their ID?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 18:32

chris155au wrote:
Texan wrote:Illegal alien" is the legal term that has been used to describe them for decades. It's not a derogatory term like "wet back".


johnsmith wrote:the US is a signatory to the UN refugee convention, right?
Someone coming to the US to claim asylum is not an 'illegal', they are legal within the confines of the UN refugee convention signed by the US government .


johnsmith wrote:No one said that the term illegal ONLY applies to asylum seekers.


Then why did you immediately jump to asylum seekers and the UN Convention after Texan just said, "Illegal alien is the legal term that has been used to describe them for decades?"


no one said the term applies only to asylum seekers. :grn
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 18:37

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
It's actually more democratic if you do it by the district manner. This because everyone has an equal vote value.


you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 18:40

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
It's actually more democratic if you do it by the district manner. This because everyone has an equal vote value.


you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.


in a population of 10 million, 1 vote should always only be equal to ONE vote

I understand their reasons, I just don't agree with them
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 08 Nov 2018, 18:44

johnsmith wrote:
no one said the term applies only to asylum seekers. :grn


Okay, you've made that clear. It just makes no sense why you immediately jumped to asylum seekers and the UN Convention after Texan just said, "Illegal alien is the legal term that has been used to describe them for decades?"
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 18:45

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
It's actually more democratic if you do it by the district manner. This because everyone has an equal vote value.


you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.


in a population of 10 million, 1 vote should always only be equal to ONE vote

I understand their reasons, I just don't agree with them


I'm talking about the value of vote, and how much effect it has on the result. Under my system, a person in nullabor has the same vote-value as a person in Sydney.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 18:49

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
It's actually more democratic if you do it by the district manner. This because everyone has an equal vote value.


you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.


in a population of 10 million, 1 vote should always only be equal to ONE vote

I understand their reasons, I just don't agree with them


I'm talking about the value of vote, and how much effect it has on the result. Under my system, a person in nullabor has the same vote-value as a person in Sydney.


your system? i thought we were discussing the electoral college :WTF
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 18:49

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
It's actually more democratic if you do it by the district manner. This because everyone has an equal vote value.


you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.


in a population of 10 million, 1 vote should always only be equal to ONE vote

I understand their reasons, I just don't agree with them


I'm talking about the value of vote, and how much effect it has on the result. Under my system, a person in nullabor has the same vote-value as a person in Sydney.


your system? i thought we were discussing the electoral college :WTF


Does it matter if it's my system or not?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 18:52

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:you can't get more democratic than 50.1% of the vote. Everything else just skews the results so as to appease someone else


Think of it like this: under an district-based electoral college system, where each district has 50k people, one person's votes is 1/50,000; whilst under a one-man one-vote system, their vote is 1 of 10 million.


in a population of 10 million, 1 vote should always only be equal to ONE vote

I understand their reasons, I just don't agree with them


I'm talking about the value of vote, and how much effect it has on the result. Under my system, a person in nullabor has the same vote-value as a person in Sydney.


your system? i thought we were discussing the electoral college :WTF


Does it matter if it's my system or not?


yes .... good to see you finally giving up on the monarchy :purple
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 18:54

johnsmith wrote:
yes .... good to see you finally giving up on the monarchy :purple


I would be open to an El Presidente system, but I doubt many Australians want that, no matter how effective of a system I can create.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 18:57

Auggie wrote: but I doubt many Australians want that


most Australians don't want the monarchy either :clap
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:01

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote: but I doubt many Australians want that


most Australians don't want the monarchy either :clap


No, you're right, they don't.

Doesn't mean they're right!

:thumb :thumb
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 19:03

Auggie wrote:Doesn't mean they're right!


there is no right or wrong in a democracy, only the will of the people. :thumb
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:10

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:Doesn't mean they're right!


there is no right or wrong in a democracy, only the will of the people. :thumb


So, if the majority of people voted to throw you and your family in jail, you would simply bow your head and accept it as the will of the people?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:11

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:Doesn't mean they're right!


there is no right or wrong in a democracy, only the will of the people. :thumb


So, if the majority of people voted to throw you and your family in jail, you would simply bow your head and accept it as the will of the people?


Is that how it works, Auggie?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:12

Aussie wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:Doesn't mean they're right!


there is no right or wrong in a democracy, only the will of the people. :thumb


So, if the majority of people voted to throw you and your family in jail, you would simply bow your head and accept it as the will of the people?


Is that how it works, Auggie?


Ask JS that question, he's the one that said 'there is no right or wrong in a democracy, only the will of the people'.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:15

Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:17

Aussie wrote:Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.


What's that got to do with anything? In a democracy, there is no right or wrong, only the will of the people. If the will of the people is to throw him and his family in jail, then he shall accede to that.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:19

Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.


What's that got to do with anything? In a democracy, there is no right or wrong, only the will of the people. If the will of the people is to throw him and his family in jail, then he shall accede to that.


So.....if a majority of Qlders decided they wanted me in prison, how do they get me there?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 08 Nov 2018, 19:22

Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.


What's that got to do with anything? In a democracy, there is no right or wrong, only the will of the people. If the will of the people is to throw him and his family in jail, then he shall accede to that.



why do you have to take everything to stupid? we're talking about government you fool
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 08 Nov 2018, 19:23

Aussie wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:Yes.....but I doubt he meant to include the Judicial System.


What's that got to do with anything? In a democracy, there is no right or wrong, only the will of the people. If the will of the people is to throw him and his family in jail, then he shall accede to that.


So.....if a majority of Qlders decided they wanted me in prison, how do they get me there?


The Police would come and arrest you and take you to prison.
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