'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 09 Nov 2018, 18:28

mothra wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
mothra wrote:Image


Goring's belief may be true when there is no freedom of speech in a country, no freedom of the press, and no opposition party allowed either.

Where there is freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and opposition parties to the party in power, it's going to be damned hard to simply "tell them", as Goring put it, that someone or something is attacking them if it isn't. Damned hard. In a free, multi-political party country, it'll take a lot more than that.

Seth



Yes and what are the people being told about freedom of speech and the press, hmmm?

Any attacks on these things lately? Enemies of anybody are they?


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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby HBS Guy » 09 Nov 2018, 18:38

Like Dutton has, Border Farce.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 09 Nov 2018, 18:58

HBS Guy wrote:Like Dutton has, Border Farce.


All they need now is ss symbols on their uniforms.

Don't worry, Monk, they won't come after you, I'll be the first they'll come after. They love the tall, fair white-skinned Dutchmen.

Tinted. Not so much.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 09 Nov 2018, 19:28

SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG

I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.

That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 09 Nov 2018, 19:29

johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG

I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.

That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.


Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 09 Nov 2018, 19:30

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG

I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.

That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.


Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.


Opt out of what convention? We're talking about illegals here, not asylum seekers
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 09 Nov 2018, 19:38

johnsmith wrote:
Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG

I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.

That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.


Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.


Opt out of what convention? We're talking about illegals here, not asylum seekers


Not just any illegals, but tinted illegals.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 19:50

SethBullock wrote:Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.


I wasn't thinking that it would be a crime, but I was thinking of the possibility of a law which required people to present ID or else the police would have to attend the hospital and have a chat to the person. If you think about it, the only likely people who wouldn't be able to present ID are illegal aliens.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 19:55

SethBullock wrote:
I remember one time I was on patrol in a residential area late at night when I saw this lone guy. I stopped and talked with him. He spoke no English. I asked him in Spanish for some ID, and he said he didn't have one. I asked him for his name, last name first.

"El Mexicano", he said.

First name?

"Jose".



Surely you didn't believe that his last name was "The Mexican!" You said you spoke with him in Spanish, so surely you knew what "El Mexicano" translates to in English! Maybe you'd had a big day that day and weren't quite thinking straight!
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 19:58

Texan wrote:Technically, police can. When 0bama was president, we had a hard time getting the feds to cooperate and liberal cities are refusing to cooperate with the federal enforcement now. They call themselves "Sanctuary Cities". It's a major CF and illegals are rarely apprehended unless they commit a felony. They flood our public schools also.


"Technically, police can", only via a federal request right?

Texan wrote:We often teach them in THEIR language.


As in, everything that the teacher says to the American students, is repeated in another language?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:00

SethBullock wrote:This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


Kind of bags the question, why the hell did you initiate contact with him in the first place?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby chris155au » 09 Nov 2018, 20:03

Auggie wrote:
Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.


Who said anything about seeking asylum?
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Texan » 10 Nov 2018, 05:13

chris155au wrote:
Texan wrote:Technically, police can. When 0bama was president, we had a hard time getting the feds to cooperate and liberal cities are refusing to cooperate with the federal enforcement now. They call themselves "Sanctuary Cities". It's a major CF and illegals are rarely apprehended unless they commit a felony. They flood our public schools also.


"Technically, police can", only via a federal request right?

Texan wrote:We often teach them in THEIR language.


As in, everything that the teacher says to the American students, is repeated in another language?

Not if they catch them driving without a license or breaking any local law. They can detain them for whatever the legal time limit is unless they identify themselves. Their fingerprints can be gathered for future identification.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Auggie » 10 Nov 2018, 11:20

chris155au wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.


Who said anything about seeking asylum?


Well, when a person comes to the US Border, all they have to do is say: "I wish to seek asylum" and they are not deemed an illegal entrant.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 12:58

mothra wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
mothra wrote:Image


Goring's belief may be true when there is no freedom of speech in a country, no freedom of the press, and no opposition party allowed either.

Where there is freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and opposition parties to the party in power, it's going to be damned hard to simply "tell them", as Goring put it, that someone or something is attacking them if it isn't. Damned hard. In a free, multi-political party country, it'll take a lot more than that.

Seth



Yes and what are the people being told about freedom of speech and the press, hmmm?

Any attacks on these things lately? Enemies of anybody are they?


The only attacks upon freedom of speech in this country have come from the left lately.

The press in this country is not under attack by the government - not in any substantive way. They are under criticism from some quarters, and rightfully so. There is absolutely no reason why the press should be free from criticism, just like any other institution in this country.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby johnsmith » 10 Nov 2018, 13:04

Sorry Seth, but labeling everything he doesn't agree with as fake news is a little bit more than criticism. The problem isn't even so much that he says it, but that many of his more idiotic supporters believe him. Then they do things like send parcel bombs to CNN etc.

Didn't he say something once about some of his supporters, that he can go out and shoot someone in public and they'd still support him. I'm ad libbing so I may not have that exactly right, but it was something along those lines. That for me is a scary thought.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 13:32

johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG


No. In this country, you may not arrest people based upon mere suspicion. You may arrest upon probable cause. Probable cause is a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe a crime has been committed and that the suspect committed that crime.

johnsmith wrote:I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.


We don't carry "national identity" cards in the U.S., and so, while most people could show state ID cards and credit cards upon demand of the police, we still could not instantly prove we were citizens. In our country, we cannot "hold on to people" without charges based upon probable cause. We are not required to carry ID except when driving or voting, and we are not required to instantly show proof of citizenship upon demand. There are certain privileges that require ID, such as getting through a TSA checkpoint at an airport so you can board a flight. But if you have no valid ID, the worst that can happen is that you are denied passage through the checkpoint.

johnsmith wrote:That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.


No, that's not how we roll in this country. People have the right to move about freely without having to prove they're citizens to the police and being subject to detention if they can't prove it. We don't have national ID cards, and we don't move about with our birth certificates in our pockets.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 13:36

Auggie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
Aussie wrote:At that time, did you have power to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant?


Texan's right. On a purely technical level, I could arrest a person on probable cause to believe they had committed a particular crime, including a federal immigration crime. But from a practical standpoint, I had absolutely no way to make that case. It's not a crime to speak Spanish. It's not a crime to not carry ID. It's not a crime to be present on a sidewalk in the middle of the night. This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


you can't arrest because you suspect them of being illegal? :OMG

I would have thought you could at least hold them until whoever looks after illegals can check them out. It would seem to be the logical thing. If they're citizens, they need to prove their identity or risk being deported. No wonder you have such a large number of illegals.

That's where your system, in my humble opinion, is stuffed. No need for a wall, just give police and other authorities the power to do their job.


Which is why the only solution to this problem is to opt out of the Convention.

I will give you credit, JS. You at least made see commonsense in this regard - any person who seeks asylum is not entering illegally and cannot be treated as such.


If you swim across the Rio Grande in the dead of night and sneak into the country, that is not "seeking asylum". That is illegal immigration. "Seeking asylum" is going through a legal, above-board process.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 13:37

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:
I remember one time I was on patrol in a residential area late at night when I saw this lone guy. I stopped and talked with him. He spoke no English. I asked him in Spanish for some ID, and he said he didn't have one. I asked him for his name, last name first.

"El Mexicano", he said.

First name?

"Jose".



Surely you didn't believe that his last name was "The Mexican!" You said you spoke with him in Spanish, so surely you knew what "El Mexicano" translates to in English! Maybe you'd had a big day that day and weren't quite thinking straight!


Ha! Maybe so.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 13:42

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.


I wasn't thinking that it would be a crime, but I was thinking of the possibility of a law which required people to present ID or else the police would have to attend the hospital and have a chat to the person. If you think about it, the only likely people who wouldn't be able to present ID are illegal aliens.


The local police have no mechanism for proving the citizenship of anyone. And if we did what you are suggesting, people might die for fear of going to the hospital.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 13:50

chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:This is what is called a "casual contact" or a "field interview", but the person did not have to answer any question I asked him, he was not under arrest, he was not advised of his rights, and he was free to leave any time he wished.


Kind of bags the question, why the hell did you initiate contact with him in the first place?


If you are paying for police protection through your taxes, and the police notice some lone male meandering about in your neighborhood in the middle of the night, do you want the police to ignore him, or have a chat with him?

This is normal police activity.

There is no law in this country that says police may not talk to people. Absent any apparent crime, the police do not force you to stop and answer questions. But I would usually start a conversation with a person like that by saying, "May I have a word with you?" If the person says no, and I have no reason to stop and hold them, then that's it. Most say OK, and the conversation is on.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby SethBullock » 10 Nov 2018, 14:06

johnsmith wrote:Sorry Seth, but labeling everything he doesn't agree with as fake news is a little bit more than criticism. The problem isn't even so much that he says it, but that many of his more idiotic supporters believe him. Then they do things like send parcel bombs to CNN etc.

Didn't he say something once about some of his supporters, that he can go out and shoot someone in public and they'd still support him. I'm ad libbing so I may not have that exactly right, but it was something along those lines. That for me is a scary thought.


Sometimes Trump is wrong. Sometimes he has been right. Trump will be Trump, OK?

But the fact is, national media presents stories that are biased. Some of it is false. Some of it is not entirely false, but it is deceptive. And CNN and some of the others are nothing more than mouthpieces for the Democratic Party, and that is not debatable. Sad, but true.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby mothra » 10 Nov 2018, 14:09

SethBullock wrote:
The only attacks upon freedom of speech in this country have come from the left lately.

The press in this country is not under attack by the government - not in any substantive way. They are under criticism from some quarters, and rightfully so. There is absolutely no reason why the press should be free from criticism, just like any other institution in this country.



You can't be serious?

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/11/white-house-releases-doctored-video-expels-cnn-journalist/?fbclid=IwAR3tVhXlgoHM9qZpck2auiCev8yBcQwr4fH-W3_T6bmoWu_6KWB16VUfBQs

From reading yourself and Tex, i honestly wonder if you are reading the same media reposrts and seeing the same footage as we are.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Texan » 10 Nov 2018, 14:37

SethBullock wrote:
chris155au wrote:
SethBullock wrote:Then you just have to trust them when they tell you their name, date of birth, and address. There's nothing else a hospital can do. It's not a crime to not have ID.


I wasn't thinking that it would be a crime, but I was thinking of the possibility of a law which required people to present ID or else the police would have to attend the hospital and have a chat to the person. If you think about it, the only likely people who wouldn't be able to present ID are illegal aliens.


The local police have no mechanism for proving the citizenship of anyone. And if we did what you are suggesting, people might die for fear of going to the hospital.

My kid almost died from meningitis because a bunch of illegal aliens filled the emergency room, but let's not scare the illegals.
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Re: 'You know what I am? I'm a nationalist'

Postby Aussie » 10 Nov 2018, 14:39

This is it in a nutshell.

Trump will be Trump, OK?


Appalling conduct by Trump, and it has almost become the routine soup of the day, is now regarded as, and white washed as "Trump being Trump" like use of the expression "boys will be boys" when there is an attempt to trivialise or minimise totally unacceptable behaviour, including, for example, rape.

No, his supporters have to stop doing that and tell the bloke that they will not continue to cop it from their Man and that Trump needs to stop being Trump lest he reduces the USA to a complete laughing stock (yes....one with lots of weaponry and military power which cannot be ignored in the World.) How good people can tolerate the arsehole has me stuffed. It amazes me that such an atrocious human being can become the most powerful and yet the most personally obnoxious person on this Planet at the same time.

He is also G.W. Bush Jnr on steroids.

/Rant.

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