Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby Julia » 10 Aug 2018, 12:07

HBS Guy, you are the epitome of denial and ducking and weaving.

All you have said I have already said. I did read up about the tiny white elephant battery and what it does.

Part of its tiny function is to try to even out the many dips when the wind stops to try to reduce the profit taking gaming of the system by the private operators.

Its freq stability function is rather coarse as all it does is provide a little bit of energy if the frequency drops a bit and vice versa.

It does backup the local wind/solar farm for a few hours probably.

And it does provide a little bit of energy if there is a failure to give the diesel and gas turbines time to start and they can only last for a short time.

It is certainly better than nothing but useless if an industrial load is required to be supplied for several days.

In due course it will be supplanted by a hydrogen energy storage system which is already being tested in SA.
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 12:37

It keeps voltage and frequency at the right level when a power station crashes off line. It does so very very quickly, nearly instantaneously in fact.

That is why more big batteries are being built. Evening out fluctuations in supply is how the battery makes money so that batteries are financially worthwhile while also providing network services.

What they are not is reserve for long term blackout. Most rightwing idiots or rightards can’t understand this.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby Julia » 10 Aug 2018, 13:38

Despite your not very good attempts at putdowns you seem to have missed some crucial points.

I clearly said it is not worth a bumper for a big crash.

You harp on about generators crashing as if this tiny battery is the answer to smooth the shock.

Yes it will help. But it saves money as well by smoothing out the dips that occur when the wind drops and the offered generator price skyrockets.

The private operators try to offer power during the wind drops to get the highest price - the bigger the wind drop the higher the price.

Its other important role is to provide a short boost of energy when there is a big failure to give the diesel and gas turbine generators time to start.

The bottom line is if you want heavy industrial load like Tomago aluminium smelter then renewable rubbish just cannot cut it.
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby HBS Guy » 10 Aug 2018, 13:52

I have said all along that we should have a nuke generator. Somewhere near Pt Ausgusta, out of reach of tsunamis, in tectonically quiet part of country. That and decentralised renewables would be good.

Need a brave govt to overcome the ill informed hysteria and probably need a carbon price to make it worthwhile.

We DO need to cut emissions. That is essential. Energy efficiency, design rules for houses and especially commercial buildings, agriculture can change to build carbon in the soil. More renewable energy, microgrids, phasing out of fossil fuels—that leads to cheaper energy and less health problems!
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby Julia » 14 Aug 2018, 07:31

Heavens, HBS Guy have you seen the light about the futility of erratic blackout prone renewable rubbish ? Yes nuclear would be fantastic for Sth Aust as they have the uranium.

There is a rumor that Malcolm wants lots of cattle to die in the current drought to help meet emission targets!!!!!

Should be an interesting Coalition NEG meeting - will there be a REVOLT!!!

Is coal creeping in under the back door ?





Government offer of new coal cash to ‘tame the beast’ in party room
The New Daily 12:26pm, Aug 13, 2018 Updated: 11:31pm, Aug 13

Image
Taxpayer-funded coal plants may be the price extracted by Coalition backbenchers. Photos: Getty

Coalition sources claim the government will spend billions of public money on new coal-fired power stations, as Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull tries to win support from his own MPs for his signature energy plan.

The Daily Telegraph ran the ‘exclusive’ on its front page on Monday, quoting a source who said “the focus is on getting cheap power into the system”.

The drop did not seem to placate key backbencher Tony Abbott, who was out on Monday morning (AEST) warning that Mr Turnbull’s National Energy Guarantee plan was “very, very dangerous” because it would impose a binding carbon emissions target.

“I have enormous concerns about anything that smacks of our country being dictated to, surrendering our sovereignty really, to the green bureaucrats of Paris,” Mr Abbott told 2GB radio.

When prompted to comment on the new coal-fired stations proposal, Mr Abbott said he was “a little sceptical”.

“If we’re fair dinkum here … the first thing the government would do is compulsorily acquire the Lidell power station and keep it open.”


The NEG, as the government policy is known, would impose both an emissions guarantee and a reliability guarantee. It was drawn up as a compromise after the Coalition backbench pushed back against the recommendations of the government’s own Finkel review.

Barnaby Joyce, another sceptical backbencher, hinted the price for his support was a promise to “break up” power companies if they failed to lower power prices.

Labor’s climate and energy spokesman, Mark Butler, said claims of taxpayer-funded coal plants were “extraordinary” and the Coalition needed to “get real”.

“I think we all understand what is happening here. Malcolm Turnbull is trying to tame the beast that is the hard-right of the Coalition party room led by Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce,” Mr Butler said.

It reminds us that the biggest barrier to lower power prices for Australian households is the chaos and division, for five years, in the Coalition party room on energy policy.
“But this beast will not be tamed, and Malcolm Turnbull has to realise, if he is to have any chance of landing an energy policy that has broad political and industry support, he simply has to stop taking dictation from Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce.”


Earlier, Australia’s competition watchdog told Nationals MPs that new coal-fired power plants were not the only solution to bringing energy prices down.

The Australian Consumer and Competition Commission recommended the government financially back new power generation as one of 56 recommendations aimed at bringing prices down.

But ACCC chair Rod Sims said new coal power was not the only solution.

“If you’re going to deal with the affordability of electricity you’ve got to look right across the board, you can’t just narrow in on one sector,” Mr Sims told reporters on Monday.

He spoke to Nationals MPs, including Mr Joyce, on Monday about the need to implement all 56 recommendations, not just the one that could see new coal-fired generation built.

Mr Turnbull will announce his support for the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission proposal at a coalition party room meeting on Tuesday.

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann confirmed the government was “accelerating consideration” of the ACCC proposal, which he said would not favour one power technology over another.

-with AAP

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2018/08/13/coal-power-plants-neg/
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2018, 08:51

Of course it will favor coal. Coal is a big donor to the Libs.
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby Julia » 14 Aug 2018, 09:44

My God! The Mad Munk even haunts here!!!!
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Re: Has coal sneaked in under the Libs back door ?

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Aug 2018, 09:54

Be polite! This is MY fine forum! NONE of that childish carry on you do on OzPol.

More discussion, less c&p is the rule here!
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