Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 24 Apr 2018, 22:12

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
So then what is it?? A sense of social justice??


"Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year They Could End Extreme Poverty Seven Times" ... and children are dying. Like, actually dying.

And you accuse us of jealousy?


That they could end poverty with so much money is just a lie. Money won't eliminate poverty by itself. It's a nice slogan, but untrue.

What will eliminate poverty is institutions and state building? Yes, money helps, but if you don't have the institutions and state to do it, the money doesn't mean anything.

I don't think it's jealousy in your case, I think it's a sense of social justice you have.


No Augie. The means with which to house, clothe, feed, medicate, educate and provide water for every person on earth has been calculated by greater minds than yours or mine. They reckon they can put a ticket on it. I believe them.

That would, of course, require vast buyouts and confiscations but things have kinda been acquired unfairly so, y'know.

We can't promise peace ... but we can provide for many, many millions more displaced than we do. We. Us. So we can buy $5 t-shirts instead of $10 ones, have a car each, watch telly, and everything comes wrapped in plastic for our convenience. We actually throw away enough food every year to feed everyone on the planet ... yeah?

Does none of this strike you as obscene?

And your mind goes to people that see a problem with this being jealous?


It is obscene.

It's also false to indicate that just sharing wealth will eliminate poverty. You're completely ignoring the importance of state-building and institutions.

Look at the Congo, they have so many natural resources, but their people are so poor. Why? Because the government is corrupt and they have poor institutions. Give them money, it will last only a short while before some warlord marches in to the villages and takes all the money. Have the institutions available to prevent that warlord from doing so, and you won't have to give any money to poor people.

My point is that slogans like those aren't telling the full picture. "Let's just share and we'll eliminate poverty".

Sorry, doesn't work like that.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 24 Apr 2018, 22:13

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
I sympathise with poverty. The best way to eliminate poverty is to call out dictatorship and corrupt regimes, and to create functioning states and institutions.



Most poverty is a direct result of colonialism and it's continuing impact.

We put most of the corrupt regimes there because it suited us well to do so.


Depends on what country you're talking about, Mothra?

Guatemala? Absolutely, the US fucked it up.

Zimbabwe? No.

Perhaps you can be more specific in which countries??
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby johnsmith » 24 Apr 2018, 22:17

CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:that so many billionaires have so much money while billions of kids have no food, I care greatly. These guys are never use all that money.


They use it for their children and their family. Sure, the father has 10 lamborghinis, but maybe the son wants 10, the daughter, the niece, the nephew, the brother, the sister, the mother, the father. And maybe the father has 20 houses, but the son wants 20, the daugther, the niece, the nephew, the brother, the sister, the mother, and the father.

And so on...

I sympathise with poverty. The best way to eliminate poverty is to call out dictatorship and corrupt regimes, and to create functioning states and institutions.

I've heard this argument before in the case of the Japanese 'getting rich because they stole money from the Chinese' without considering that the Japanese went through a fundamental shift in state-building and institutions which laid the foundations for their success.


rubbish. you think gina for example is going top spend $17B on lamborghini's for her and her kids? after publicly destroying her kids to prevent them getting to it?

without denying that the japanese went through a fundamental shift in state-building and institutions which laid the foundations for their success, did the japanese steal from chinese?
FD.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 24 Apr 2018, 22:24

johnsmith wrote:rubbish. you think gina for example is going top spend $17B on lamborghini's for her and her kids? after publicly destroying her kids to prevent them getting to it?


Gina might not. But I would, and I suspect you would too.

Gina might be sharing her wealth with someone else. Frankly, I don't care. That she's screwing her family over, irrespective of how much money she has is disgusting.

johnsmith wrote:without denying that the japanese went through a fundamental shift in state-building and institutions which laid the foundations for their success, did the japanese steal from chinese?


Yeah, they did, and it enriched the Zaibatsu(s) without much going to people (except maybe through taxation). In the end, it didn't do them any good, did it? They still lost it. Not to mention the fact that they were completely obliterated during WW2 and they made an economic recovery unseen in recent history.

None of that was done due to Chinese money. It was because of institutions, hard work and good government.

Institutions, institutions, institutions... That's what it comes down to.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby johnsmith » 24 Apr 2018, 22:56

CaesarAugustus wrote:Gina might not. But I would, and I suspect you would too.

but you and I aren't billionaires ... and because of our attitudes we're never likely to be. To be a billionaire you either need to stumble onto a brilliant idea which makes you money ... your goal is the success of your idea over and above 'making' money

or be extremely greedy.

CaesarAugustus wrote:That she's screwing her family over, irrespective of how much money she has is disgusting.


it's not just her. Look at just about any billionaire and they all use and abuse people to make more money. Even if it is detrimental to the health of the person they are using.

CaesarAugustus wrote:Yeah, they did, and it enriched the Zaibatsu(s) without much going to people (except maybe through taxation). In the end, it didn't do them any good, did it?


because they got greedy and this time the person they tried to abuse (USA) had bigger teeth.



CaesarAugustus wrote:Institutions, institutions, institutions... That's what it comes down to.


wrong ... not institutions. What it comes down to is a free, fair, safe and prosperous SOCIETY ... without that the 'institutions' become the Zaibatsu
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby mothra » 24 Apr 2018, 23:45

CaesarAugustus wrote:Depends on what country you're talking about, Mothra?

Guatemala? Absolutely, the US fucked it up.

Zimbabwe? No.

Perhaps you can be more specific in which countries??


Zimbabwe wasn't utterly fucked by colonialism?
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 25 Apr 2018, 00:03

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:Depends on what country you're talking about, Mothra?

Guatemala? Absolutely, the US fucked it up.

Zimbabwe? No.

Perhaps you can be more specific in which countries??


Zimbabwe wasn't utterly fucked by colonialism?


If you read the history of Zimbabwe you'll notice that Ian Smith and the white minority government had eventually come to accept a power-sharing arrangement with moderate blacks whose leader was Abel Muzorewa. Abel Muzorewa actually didn't really like Mugabe because Mugabe and the Zanu-PF were going around massacring villages and forcibly conscripting children into his army.

The British had agreed to accept the shared government, and promised Smith that would accept it. But, after Smith gave up power, the British betrayed him and instead supported Mugabe.

Zimbabwe would've been an entirely different country now if Mugabe and the Zanu-PF weren't not running the show.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby mothra » 25 Apr 2018, 00:06

CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:Depends on what country you're talking about, Mothra?

Guatemala? Absolutely, the US fucked it up.

Zimbabwe? No.

Perhaps you can be more specific in which countries??


Zimbabwe wasn't utterly fucked by colonialism?


If you read the history of Zimbabwe you'll notice that Ian Smith and the white minority government had eventually come to accept a power-sharing arrangement with moderate blacks whose leader was Abel Muzorewa. Abel Muzorewa actually didn't really like Mugabe because Mugabe and the Zanu-PF were going around massacring villages and forcibly conscripting children into his army.

The British had agreed to accept the shared government, and promised Smith that would accept it. But, after Smith gave up power, the British betrayed him and instead supported Mugabe.

Zimbabwe would've been an entirely different country now if Mugabe and the Zanu-PF weren't not running the show.


Wonder what pissed Mugabe off? And all of the people who went along for the ride.

Anything you can think of?
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 25 Apr 2018, 00:18

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:Depends on what country you're talking about, Mothra?

Guatemala? Absolutely, the US fucked it up.

Zimbabwe? No.

Perhaps you can be more specific in which countries??


Zimbabwe wasn't utterly fucked by colonialism?


If you read the history of Zimbabwe you'll notice that Ian Smith and the white minority government had eventually come to accept a power-sharing arrangement with moderate blacks whose leader was Abel Muzorewa. Abel Muzorewa actually didn't really like Mugabe because Mugabe and the Zanu-PF were going around massacring villages and forcibly conscripting children into his army.

The British had agreed to accept the shared government, and promised Smith that would accept it. But, after Smith gave up power, the British betrayed him and instead supported Mugabe.

Zimbabwe would've been an entirely different country now if Mugabe and the Zanu-PF weren't not running the show.


Wonder what pissed Mugabe off? And all of the people who went along for the ride.

Anything you can think of?


So, it justified his going around killing people from different African tribes who didn't join him? What about Muzorewa who advocated peaceful means - why didn't he get pissed off?
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby mothra » 25 Apr 2018, 00:20

CaesarAugustus wrote:
So, it justified his going around killing people from different African tribes who didn't join him? What about Muzorewa who advocated peaceful means - why didn't he get pissed off?



What's justified got to do with it?
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 25 Apr 2018, 00:30

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
So, it justified his going around killing people from different African tribes who didn't join him? What about Muzorewa who advocated peaceful means - why didn't he get pissed off?



What's justified got to do with it?


Well you asked "Wonder what 'pissed him off'?" That seems as though you're attributing his being pissed off i.e. massacring people to colonialism; i.e. you're providing a justification for his behaviour??

Want to rethink what you said?
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby mothra » 25 Apr 2018, 00:44

CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
So, it justified his going around killing people from different African tribes who didn't join him? What about Muzorewa who advocated peaceful means - why didn't he get pissed off?



What's justified got to do with it?


Well you asked "Wonder what 'pissed him off'?" That seems as though you're attributing his being pissed off i.e. massacring people to colonialism; i.e. you're providing a justification for his behaviour??

Want to rethink what you said?


justified
ˈdʒʌstɪfʌɪd/Submit
adjective
1.
having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason.
"the doctors were justified in treating her"
2.
THEOLOGY
declared or made righteous in the sight of God.



Nope. Didn't say that.

Reasons aren't excuses, Augie.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby CaesarAugustus » 25 Apr 2018, 01:00

mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
mothra wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
So, it justified his going around killing people from different African tribes who didn't join him? What about Muzorewa who advocated peaceful means - why didn't he get pissed off?



What's justified got to do with it?


Well you asked "Wonder what 'pissed him off'?" That seems as though you're attributing his being pissed off i.e. massacring people to colonialism; i.e. you're providing a justification for his behaviour??

Want to rethink what you said?


justified
ˈdʒʌstɪfʌɪd/Submit
adjective
1.
having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason.
"the doctors were justified in treating her"
2.
THEOLOGY
declared or made righteous in the sight of God.



Nope. Didn't say that.

Reasons aren't excuses, Augie.


It was the way you said it, Mothra.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby mothra » 25 Apr 2018, 01:02

CaesarAugustus wrote:
It was the way you said it, Mothra.



Ah.
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Re: Billionaires Made So Much Money Last Year...

Postby DonDeeHippy » 26 Apr 2018, 12:50

Thinking about it, if you just took the money off of billionares and gave it to govt or agencies to spend, greed and incompetence would quickly loose the money , with not many of the starving taken care of.
They would soon and quite rightly say I was made to give 1 billion dollars and only a few million actually helped the ppl whats the point ?
Maybe a better way would be to make the billionares take responsability for a set number of ppl, i know they would try and cheet but hey they r ppl that can get things done otherwise they wouldnt be rich.
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