Renewables

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Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 13 Mar 2018, 01:45

It is imperative that Australia jumps more fully into renewable energy.

What we should be concentrating on is small local energy plants. Whatever they are.
To argue a nationwide grid is imperative, in a country the size of Australia is folly. Forget all the self-interested industries that demand the nation provides them with power.
It is NOT viable, given the long term prospects of serious climate change and major weather events which make the whole idea a joke.

No. I think Australians should be looking to LOCAL power sources, be they solar, thermal, wind, water, the whole LOT OF THEM need to be used and be useful.

A massive powergrid as is currently considered essential is just not going to happen. As the size of storms and other weather events increase, we must be able to generate power locally, for LOCAL consumption. Forget this idea of states sharing power, because the infrastructure we now rely on will be useless in the future. We need viable alternatives.

Major multi-national power providers will need to look to renewables in ALL the forms available, else people will be forced to go off-grid, and the current technology will be totally inadequate for the needs of the populace.

If I were in govt, I would legisklate that all local authorities take up responsibility for a secondline local power economy. WHEN the NATIONAL infrastructure fails, local authorities should be on the ball.

Australia is just too big, and too empty to trust to a national grid. I'd be happy to go off-grid, if local government enabled it. Obviously, that would require support from State and Federal governments, AND it would go a long way towards providing people in far flung areas of this huge land with power.
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 14 Mar 2018, 02:39

what .. no-one has a comment?
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Mar 2018, 08:08

There is a whole board here for that.
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Re: Renewables

Postby johnsmith » 14 Mar 2018, 08:34

pinkeye wrote:No. I think Australians should be looking to LOCAL power sources, be they solar, thermal, wind, water, the whole LOT OF THEM need to be used and be useful.


lots of small towns and communities are now doing just that. It's still early in the game but i predict all the small towns will have their own renewable energy sources within the next twenty years, as well as many 'suburbs' in the bigger cities,'

this is a good read

https://theconversation.com/communities-are-taking-renewable-power-into-their-own-hands-42480
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 14 Mar 2018, 08:50

Yeah, minigrids.

If a small community goes off-grid it should have storage and wind+solar and diesel as a backup. The community would save heaps on power and the power will be much more reliable.

I plan on solar panels (north but also east and west sides) but in winter sun is a bit dismal so I want to have wind energy too. No idea on prices or anything, hell, my bloody house hasn’t been built or even designed yet! I would LOVE to be off grid!

Tassie summer days will be long, hence the panels on W and E sides. With a battery and not needing to run aircon due to straw being great insulator I could survive off-grid in summer I reckon. Wind—dunno, need more experience on Tassie weather—will keep notes on weather when I am there working on my block.
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 14 Mar 2018, 23:13

HBS Guy wrote:There is a whole board here for that.


Aye my friend, but its all a bit too technical.
I'm trying to look at it from the point of view of those outside the normal framework, mostly. Not tech , just a commonsense idea that is gaining momentum.

But I do think there is a role for similar mini-plants on city skyscrapers for example. This is happening also.

Thanks for runniing with it Monk. I think your straw bale house will be great. I assume you'll be rendering it? what material were you considering.?


I will look forward to a day when the big power companies are BEGGING US to use them.
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 15 Mar 2018, 05:23

It will be rendered with 75mm of clay, the outer layer will have some cement in it. Maybe finish it with a final thin layer, giving the house a terracotta sort of color: earthy. On the inside lime plaster that allows the walls to breath so any moisture can leave the straw.
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 16 Mar 2018, 00:21

Do you have clay on site.? Nothing could be better eh?

Cement mixed in is a good choice. Your options otherwise are quite archaic. Are you sealing the straw first? or direct rendering.? Will the early renders incorporate straw in the mix.?
It will take some time to cure between renderings, to get that thickness won't it.? Have you worked out when to do this.. like when the weather is dry.? Quite an undertaking for sure.
:thumb
And I was wondering too, what type of footings are you planning. More concrete..? I imagine the local soil make-up would help you decide on that.
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 17 Mar 2018, 12:07

Can’t seal the straw—it has to be able to breath, hence the lime plaster on the inside.

Mind you, having a strawbale house built for you is expensive so it may not happen. If I need to build timber frame I will ensure it is very well insulated. Alas, strawbale is like R20, doubt can get that any other way :sad

Not going to worry about it. Concentrating on getting the back yard into shape and getting cider apple and cherry trees planted in September

Yup, it is all clay, except the back half that was rotary hoed and claybreaker spread last autumn. Footings—dunno yet.
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 18 Mar 2018, 04:04

HBS Guy wrote:Can’t seal the straw—it has to be able to breath, hence the lime plaster on the inside.

Mind you, having a strawbale house built for you is expensive so it may not happen. If I need to build timber frame I will ensure it is very well insulated. Alas, strawbale is like R20, doubt can get that any other way :sad

Not going to worry about it. Concentrating on getting the back yard into shape and getting cider apple and cherry trees planted in September

Yup, it is all clay, except the back half that was rotary hoed and claybreaker spread last autumn. Footings—dunno yet.


Yeah well Straw Bale = Big effort. But there are a few eco friendly tech materials available. Even light poly-styrene type bricks filled with clay and rendered would be an option.
Sorry.. I tend to watch Grand et al. There are lots of amazing ideas out there. :)
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Mar 2018, 07:24

Grand Designs is alright if you have a million dollars to spend. . .I would love to see a program on CLEVER design, CLEVER materials, CLEVER techniques that let you build a low cost to build, low cost to run house.

I originally wanted a 6m x 6m lounge, reckon I will be happy with a 6x4 lounge and a 6x3 conservatory on one side of the lounge with french doors in between or two big sliding doors. In winter when less likely to use conservatory use it to store more frost tender plants.
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 18 Mar 2018, 10:03

johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:No. I think Australians should be looking to LOCAL power sources, be they solar, thermal, wind, water, the whole LOT OF THEM need to be used and be useful.


lots of small towns and communities are now doing just that. It's still early in the game but i predict all the small towns will have their own renewable energy sources within the next twenty years, as well as many 'suburbs' in the bigger cities,'

this is a good read

https://theconversation.com/communities-are-taking-renewable-power-into-their-own-hands-42480


Sounds like Flannery type speech, imperative like the Dams will never be full again ?
Whats next the Earth is going to stop rotating and hump back whales will joint a death cult ?

Renewables are just an alternate technology that need to be proven so far they are a very expensive alternative with little to no benefit.

Why not just less the natural process of technology development take place without subsidies or BS artificial targets that won't be met ?

If small towns can make it work then sure lets see where it goes.
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Re: Renewables

Postby johnsmith » 18 Mar 2018, 10:48

RightSaidFred wrote:
Sounds like Flannery type speech, imperative like the Dams will never be full again ?


you're misquoting him
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Re: Renewables

Postby johnsmith » 18 Mar 2018, 10:49

RightSaidFred wrote:Why not just less the natural process of technology development take place without subsidies or BS artificial targets that won't be met ?


because they're competing against industries that are heavily subsidised. Because they're competing against industries that it took the govt. to establish (and then sell off) .

iT'S NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD
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Re: Renewables

Postby HBS Guy » 18 Mar 2018, 11:31

Renewables are actually cheaper than fossil fuels and that is with ff allowed to externalise a lot of their costs (dumping of fly ash and CO2 and other undesirables just vented into the atmosphere despite the fact this kills people.
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 19 Mar 2018, 00:19

johnsmith wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:Why not just less the natural process of technology development take place without subsidies or BS artificial targets that won't be met ?


because they're competing against industries that are heavily subsidised. Because they're competing against industries that it took the govt. to establish (and then sell off) .

iT'S NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD


Quite so. We need GRASSROOTS involvement. FORGET FED and State Govt.. they are bought and paid for by the major powerbrokers.
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Re: Renewables

Postby Dax » 20 Mar 2018, 13:39

RightSaidFred wrote:
Renewables are just an alternate technology that need to be proven so far they are a very expensive alternative with little to no benefit.


That's not the case, I'm off grid, run everything on 240v including A/C and got my investment in lifepo4 back in 2 years, compared to being grid connected. Many people round me are off grid, saving a fortune, no blackouts or power failures, no bills and heaps of energy to play with, all 240v.

The technology today is cheap, reliable and gives you the opportunity to become independent. Had my lithium system for just over 10 years and it has not lost any capacity during that time. We should be rushing to renewables as fast as possible. It would solve so many problems in our society and reduce costs to people by well over 50%, until their system is paid off. Then they would have free energy for a decade at least.

If we established local grids with a lithium battery backup, local business and industry could use the excess from people homes etc. It's the only way to go, especially with the changing weather and what it is brining with it.
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Re: Renewables

Postby johnsmith » 20 Mar 2018, 14:19

well done Dax ..I'd love to go off grid but as I live in a managed estate, it's just not possible for me now.
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 22 Mar 2018, 10:26

Dax wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Renewables are just an alternate technology that need to be proven so far they are a very expensive alternative with little to no benefit.


That's not the case, I'm off grid, run everything on 240v including A/C and got my investment in lifepo4 back in 2 years, compared to being grid connected. Many people round me are off grid, saving a fortune, no blackouts or power failures, no bills and heaps of energy to play with, all 240v.

The technology today is cheap, reliable and gives you the opportunity to become independent. Had my lithium system for just over 10 years and it has not lost any capacity during that time. We should be rushing to renewables as fast as possible. It would solve so many problems in our society and reduce costs to people by well over 50%, until their system is paid off. Then they would have free energy for a decade at least.

If we established local grids with a lithium battery backup, local business and industry could use the excess from people homes etc. It's the only way to go, especially with the changing weather and what it is brining with it.


So how much did you spend to get there ?

For me total cost would be 20-30k for a Tesla style battery + Solar ..... moving out in about 5 years no ROI on that would take 10-20 years .... its expensive !
In a remote area it might be the way to go.

Also Industry needs reliable intense energy sources 7x24, all renewables have done so far is increased the cost and in SA definitely reduced the reliability.
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 22 Mar 2018, 10:28

johnsmith wrote:well done Dax ..I'd love to go off grid but as I live in a managed estate, it's just not possible for me now.


If you have 20k-40k to invest in it ...... need to do the maths.
Some with electric or even hybrid cars.
Savings are marginal at best !
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Re: Renewables

Postby pinkeye » 23 Mar 2018, 02:44

Dax wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Renewables are just an alternate technology that need to be proven so far they are a very expensive alternative with little to no benefit.


That's not the case, I'm off grid, run everything on 240v including A/C and got my investment in lifepo4 back in 2 years, compared to being grid connected. Many people round me are off grid, saving a fortune, no blackouts or power failures, no bills and heaps of energy to play with, all 240v.

The technology today is cheap, reliable and gives you the opportunity to become independent. Had my lithium system for just over 10 years and it has not lost any capacity during that time. We should be rushing to renewables as fast as possible. It would solve so many problems in our society and reduce costs to people by well over 50%, until their system is paid off. Then they would have free energy for a decade at least.

If we established local grids with a lithium battery backup, local business and industry could use the excess from people homes etc. It's the only way to go, especially with the changing weather and what it is brining with it.


When you say cheap... what are we talking?
The ONLY service I have to pay for at my place is electricity. No town water, no town plumbing. OH yeah I pay rates for rubbish collection roads whatever. I'd like to go OFF GRID.
So today,? what would it cost me. A single person household. Solar is no good I have too many trees, and there is NO WAY I'm cutting them down. 240v sounds appealing.
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 23 Mar 2018, 08:22

johnsmith wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Sounds like Flannery type speech, imperative like the Dams will never be full again ?


you're misquoting him


He said it
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 23 Mar 2018, 08:25

pinkeye wrote:
Dax wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Renewables are just an alternate technology that need to be proven so far they are a very expensive alternative with little to no benefit.


That's not the case, I'm off grid, run everything on 240v including A/C and got my investment in lifepo4 back in 2 years, compared to being grid connected. Many people round me are off grid, saving a fortune, no blackouts or power failures, no bills and heaps of energy to play with, all 240v.

The technology today is cheap, reliable and gives you the opportunity to become independent. Had my lithium system for just over 10 years and it has not lost any capacity during that time. We should be rushing to renewables as fast as possible. It would solve so many problems in our society and reduce costs to people by well over 50%, until their system is paid off. Then they would have free energy for a decade at least.

If we established local grids with a lithium battery backup, local business and industry could use the excess from people homes etc. It's the only way to go, especially with the changing weather and what it is brining with it.


When you say cheap... what are we talking?
The ONLY service I have to pay for at my place is electricity. No town water, no town plumbing. OH yeah I pay rates for rubbish collection roads whatever. I'd like to go OFF GRID.
So today,? what would it cost me. A single person household. Solar is no good I have too many trees, and there is NO WAY I'm cutting them down. 240v sounds appealing.


If want to be off the grid it will cost you 20-40k ish depending on how big your house it.
Without a battery you can not be off the grid, they start at about 15k and go up from there + 5-10k for Solar panels.
The ROI on that will easily be 5-10 years.
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Re: Renewables

Postby johnsmith » 23 Mar 2018, 08:32

RightSaidFred wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Sounds like Flannery type speech, imperative like the Dams will never be full again ?


you're misquoting him


He said it


you're misquoting him. He was referring to IPCC modelling. His comment was based on that modelling.

https://indifferencegivesyouafright.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/tim-flannery-did-not-say-australias-dams-would-never-fill-again/
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Re: Renewables

Postby RightSaidFred » 24 Mar 2018, 07:44

johnsmith wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
RightSaidFred wrote:
Sounds like Flannery type speech, imperative like the Dams will never be full again ?


you're misquoting him


He said it


you're misquoting him. He was referring to IPCC modelling. His comment was based on that modelling.

https://indifferencegivesyouafright.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/tim-flannery-did-not-say-australias-dams-would-never-fill-again/


His words he said it, he can try to deny it.
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