the myth that cutting public servants saves money

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the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 29 Dec 2017, 11:12


Billions spent on consultants, contractors

Billions of dollars were spent last year on outsourcing as federal government departments tried to fill holes left by staffing cuts and hiring caps.

An analysis of the government's procurement site by The Australian suggested $9.7 billion was spent on management, business and administrative services including labour hire, external contractors, rent and legal advice.

However, Finance Minister Mathias Cormann has flatly rejected the "false and misleading" analysis, saying it massively overstates the spending on consultancies by rolling multi-year contracts into a single year.



https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38435208/billions-spent-on-consultants-contractors/



we're being conned by the politicians. All the libs are doing is moving the money from the workers, to their donors.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 29 Dec 2017, 12:52

and more


Government spend on management consultants balloons as giant accountancy firms cash in

The Federal Government has defended the increasing use of management consultants in the public service, amid concerns years of job cuts have stripped the bureaucracy of specialists.

A Government audit has revealed the cost of paying consultants for work public servants cannot do increased from $200 million in 2012-13, to $500 million last financial year.

The amount paid to consultants is now inching close to $700 million a year, which is an increase on around $380 million spent in 2013, when the size of the bureaucracy peaked at 167,000 jobs under Labor.

The big four accounting firms — KPMG, PriceWaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte — have won close to half-a-billion dollars in consultancy work over four years.

'Woeful lack of ability and knowledge'
Leo Dobes, a retired senior public servant and associate professor at the Australian National University, says there are not enough skilled economists left in the public service.

"There's a woeful lack of ability and knowledge in that area," Professor Dobes told the ABC.

"If you don't have specialised skills and you use a consultant, how can you know you're getting value for money?"

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said the total cost of Government administration — including consultants and contractors — had fallen significantly under the Coalition.

Senator Cormann said when used appropriately, consultants could slash recurrent costs, improve efficiency and ensure the public service remained flexible.

"It helps to keep the cost of Commonwealth administration low by helping to avoid the ongoing costs which would be incurred with the recruitment of additional permanent public servants when the need for specialist skills or additional support is temporary or project-specific," he said.

Shadow finance minister Jim Chalmers renewed Labor's election pledge to limit the use of consultants in the public service, describing the spending as wasteful.

"The Turnbull Government's blunt public service headcount cap comes at the cost of building higher and rising consultancy and labour hire fees into the budget," Dr Chalmers said.

"This is a very worrying and expensive development which the Turnbull Government has gone to great lengths to hide, refusing even basic requests to learn more about the problem."



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-29/cormann-defends-consultants-cashing-in-on-public-service/9291634


only a fuckwit like corman would argue that increasing spending by 250% is a fall in consultancy costs :b :b :b
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 29 Dec 2017, 12:53

and from the same link provided in post 2



IT spend rivals cost of welfare program

The audit report comes after revelations the Federal Government is spending as much on information technology projects as it is on its major social welfare program, Newstart Allowance.

The cost of Government IT has spiralled from $5.9 billion in 2012-13 to nearly $10 billion, with 24 per cent of that going to Boeing, IBM and Telstra.

To save money and boost competition, the Federal Government has capped future IT contracts at $100 million, or three-year terms.

That would stop departments like Human Services signing a $484 million deal with IBM last year, extending an 11-year partnership that has cost more than $1 billion.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby HBS Guy » 29 Dec 2017, 17:06

Yeah, I have been reading about that on the PBXmastragics blog.

There was fat to cut but Swan with 3 years of “efficiency dividends” cut that fat. The fucking Libs should have left well enough alone. Cockheads!
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 29 Dec 2017, 20:45

HBS Guy wrote:The fucking Libs should have left well enough alone. Cockheads!


libs are simply trying to shift the money to their donor mates instead of public servants who are less likely to vote for them anyway
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Lefty » 30 Dec 2017, 06:05

Neo-liberal ideology. The work still needs to be done but they believe as an article of faith that the private sector will always do it better, cheaper, more efficiently, under any and all circumstances, no matter what. There's no need to take note of facts when you're beholden to something similar to a religious belief. In fact, as long as faith remains strong enough all evidence to the contrary can simply be ignored. That's why they keep ramming us down the road of privatisation, despite many years of evidence demonstrating that it seldom delivers better overall results.

Decades ago they began finding that outsourcing the work to the private sector was not delivering any better value for money in most cases. But the facts didn't matter to them and still don't. There would have been very few things I would have ever agreed with dear old Margret Thatcher on but one quote attributed to her I think is spot on....."there is nothing so insidious as a fashionable consensus". I agree with that 100%, and in that analogy I include the fashionable consensus to which she herself subscribed, that of neo-liberalism.

I remember when the fuckwit Campbell Newman got the premiers job here in QLD and went on a mad binge of sacking public servants in order to "save money". It was quickly realised that the work they did could in fact not be done without and so they turned around and hired private contractors - many of them the same former public servants to whom they'd just given the chop - at often more then twice the rate they'd been paid as government employees. Did the work then get done twice as efficiently? Of course not!

The problem is that there is currently no broadly-accepted alternative socio-economic narrative to neo-liberalism. Which means that no matter how lousy the results, the system will just go on and on and on until enough people call for change.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 30 Dec 2017, 08:11

Lefty wrote:Neo-liberal ideology. The work still needs to be done but they believe as an article of faith that the private sector will always do it better, cheaper, more efficiently, under any and all circumstances, no matter what. There's no need to take note of facts when you're beholden to something similar to a religious belief. In fact, as long as faith remains strong enough all evidence to the contrary can simply be ignored. That's why they keep ramming us down the road of privatisation, despite many years of evidence demonstrating that it seldom delivers better overall results.

Decades ago they began finding that outsourcing the work to the private sector was not delivering any better value for money in most cases. But the facts didn't matter to them and still don't. There would have been very few things I would have ever agreed with dear old Margret Thatcher on but one quote attributed to her I think is spot on....."there is nothing so insidious as a fashionable consensus". I agree with that 100%, and in that analogy I include the fashionable consensus to which she herself subscribed, that of neo-liberalism.

I remember when the fuckwit Campbell Newman got the premiers job here in QLD and went on a mad binge of sacking public servants in order to "save money". It was quickly realised that the work they did could in fact not be done without and so they turned around and hired private contractors - many of them the same former public servants to whom they'd just given the chop - at often more then twice the rate they'd been paid as government employees. Did the work then get done twice as efficiently? Of course not!

The problem is that there is currently no broadly-accepted alternative socio-economic narrative to neo-liberalism. Which means that no matter how lousy the results, the system will just go on and on and on until enough people call for change.




good post
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby HBS Guy » 30 Dec 2017, 08:19

Some of those public servants fuckwit Campbell sacked were doctors and scientists working on tropical diseases, antibiotic tolerant bacteria and TB. Now antibiotic–resistant TB is making inroads. VERY stupid sackings! Then the fuckwit built a new government building and filled it with Lib/Nats staff.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Lefty » 30 Dec 2017, 08:35

Yup. *Blinded*by*ideology*
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby BigOl64 » 31 Dec 2017, 08:25

HBS Guy wrote:Some of those public servants fuckwit Campbell sacked were doctors and scientists working on tropical diseases, antibiotic tolerant bacteria and TB. Now antibiotic–resistant TB is making inroads. VERY stupid sackings! Then the fuckwit built a new government building and filled it with Lib/Nats staff.



He cut funding to the CSIRO did he?
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Dec 2017, 09:20

No, these were purely Qld centres of excellence in medical research, research that will be sorely missed in the years to come.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby BigOl64 » 31 Dec 2017, 09:37

HBS Guy wrote:No, these were purely Qld centres of excellence in medical research, research that will be sorely missed in the years to come.



But hasn't that lying cunt from brisbane fixed all of that?

It is her second term and she is all about gold plating SEQ and only destroying jobs for North Queenslanders, why hasn't she fixed it?


Maybe there is so little unemployment in SEQ she can't find anyone to do the work, yep I feel their pain.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Miranda » 31 Dec 2017, 10:26

Cuts in Public Sector funding with a comparative increase in out sourcing to Private Sector contracts will always impinge upon social change and equity.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby HBS Guy » 31 Dec 2017, 10:31

Hi Miranda, welcome to PA!

Yes, the PS is often the scapegoat yet cutting PS numbers and/or pay never brings the benefits simplistic politicians think it will. Look at the Great Depression here, austerity (the Premiers Plan) was applied and made things worse!
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 31 Dec 2017, 10:33

BigOl64 wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:No, these were purely Qld centres of excellence in medical research, research that will be sorely missed in the years to come.



But hasn't that lying cunt from brisbane fixed all of that?

It is her second term and she is all about gold plating SEQ and only destroying jobs for North Queenslanders, why hasn't she fixed it?


Maybe there is so little unemployment in SEQ she can't find anyone to do the work, yep I feel their pain.



you keep going on as if people should give a shit about north queensland. buy a shovel and dig a hole of you have nothing to do... maybe you'll find some coal. Just keep it in your backyard
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 31 Dec 2017, 10:34

Miranda wrote:Cuts in Public Sector funding with a comparative increase in out sourcing to Private Sector contracts will always impinge upon social change and equity.



it's all about political donations and protecting their share portfolio .... with a little bit of 'preparing for 'future job prospects for life after politics' thrown in for good measure
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Lefty » 31 Dec 2017, 10:50

Miranda wrote:Cuts in Public Sector funding with a comparative increase in out sourcing to Private Sector contracts will always impinge upon social change and equity.


Hi Miranda, welcome to the forum :beer

The fact that it has been demonstrated so many times to fail to improve overall outcomes should see logic cause such actions to be abandoned. Unfortunately, it seems you don't need logic when you're beholden to ideology.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby BigOl64 » 31 Dec 2017, 11:02

johnsmith wrote:
BigOl64 wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:No, these were purely Qld centres of excellence in medical research, research that will be sorely missed in the years to come.



But hasn't that lying cunt from brisbane fixed all of that?

It is her second term and she is all about gold plating SEQ and only destroying jobs for North Queenslanders, why hasn't she fixed it?


Maybe there is so little unemployment in SEQ she can't find anyone to do the work, yep I feel their pain.



you keep going on as if people should give a shit about north queensland. buy a shovel and dig a hole of you have nothing to do... maybe you'll find some coal. Just keep it in your backyard



Yeah I know, thanks for pointing out that you fucking grubs down south really only see the north as your personal cash machine.


Time to cut you parasites loose and let you pay your own way.


The place is infested with filthy cockroaches anyway.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 31 Dec 2017, 11:05

BigOl64 wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
BigOl64 wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:No, these were purely Qld centres of excellence in medical research, research that will be sorely missed in the years to come.



But hasn't that lying cunt from brisbane fixed all of that?

It is her second term and she is all about gold plating SEQ and only destroying jobs for North Queenslanders, why hasn't she fixed it?


Maybe there is so little unemployment in SEQ she can't find anyone to do the work, yep I feel their pain.



you keep going on as if people should give a shit about north queensland. buy a shovel and dig a hole of you have nothing to do... maybe you'll find some coal. Just keep it in your backyard



Yeah I know, thanks for pointing out that you fucking grubs down south really only see the north as your personal cash machine.


Time to cut you parasites loose and let you pay your own way.


The place is infested with filthy cockroaches anyway.

cash machine? :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle

no good having a cash machine of there's no money in the bank
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Miranda » 31 Dec 2017, 11:21

All forms of political funding and favours should be outlawed. Let the people control the election funding and let all political advertising during elections be cost free.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 31 Dec 2017, 11:29

Miranda wrote:All forms of political funding and favours should be outlawed. Let the people control the election funding and let all political advertising during elections be cost free.



the AEC can fund advertising for all candidates that meet pre determined conditions.
all the parties can advertise on ABC for free.
give every party an equal amount of air time, but only for the week prior to the election. it's all bullshit anyway so we don't need any more than that.

other than that politicians can do what they're supposed to do, door knock and meet and talk to their constituents. ...
other than that,these days if people are interested in a parties policies, they google them.
Last edited by johnsmith on 31 Dec 2017, 15:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby Miranda » 31 Dec 2017, 13:11

Miranda wrote:All forms of political funding and favours should be outlawed. Let the people control the election funding and let all political advertising during elections be cost free.


If all all political advertising on all free and paid tv, where it is that comercials ocucurs, were free, the AEC would then focus its attention on funding other cost entailed to elections. That would be more democratic. The people have a right to be informed, and not merely ABC veiwers. Also, all political advertising should focus on policy and not personality or party vilification. The people have the right to know what they are voting for and not why they shouldn't vote for an apposing party.

Finally, all candidates should focus on their own consituancy exclusively with funding given for that purpose. We dont need tax dollars waisted on air travel.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby johnsmith » 31 Dec 2017, 15:27

Miranda wrote:The people have a right to be informed, and not merely ABC veiwers. Also, all political advertising should focus on policy and not personality or party vilification. The people have the right to know what they are voting for and not why they shouldn't vote for an apposing party.


and the majority of people inform themselves over the internet anyway. The ABC is our national broadcaster, it costs the tax payer very little to advertise on their as opposed to the private broadcasters. ... Political advertising these days rarely, if ever, involves policy announcements. It's just 'oohh, he did that, don't vote for him he did that' , or 'we'll pay the debt faster than they will' ... the sort of bullshit that preaches to the converted or relies on scaremongering . The less of that the better. I think parties will be less inclined to go for the personality bashing over policy announcements if their time on air is limited.
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Re: the myth that cutting public servants saves money

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Jan 2018, 06:40

Prem. of NSW quietly axes a program over the holidays:

https://twitter.com/krONik

$2.5Bn for unnecessary stadium development but not enough to keep an intensive literacy program going.

Liberal governments!
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