Dual Citizenship

Discuss politics and current affairs here.

Hot topic: The scourge of negative gearing, Friends of the NBN and wrecking lives.  The economy and Poll tracking— all the polls. New! ELECTION 2016, Issues and Leaders

Special Feature 1: Peter Costello and our current deficits.
Special Feature 2: Dr Turnbull and the wrong NBN prescription
Special Feature 3: The Denigration of science, technology and education.
.
Forum rules
The rules for this board are in the Charter of Moderation. Politics is for serious discussion of politics, economics and current affairs.

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:22

Aussie wrote:What is proportional representation in the House of Reps. Please use common terms, not 'in house' expressions or phrases. Explain it to a Martian.


Proportional representation is a voting system. It means that each political party gains the exact number of seats equal to the total percentage of votes received by that party nationwide.

The Senate currently has a system of proportional representation, but the votes of calculated statewide as opposed to nationwide. I propose that the House of Representatives be calculated on a nationwide scale.

For e.g. if Party A receives 30% of the votes, it receives 30% of the seats. In the 150-seat House of Representatives, it would receive 45 seats.

To put this into practical terms, in the 2016 Federal election:

Coalition: 42.04% of the total vote, which under PR would be 63 seats, but acquired 76 seats.
Labor: 34.73$ of the total vote, which under PR would be 51, actually received 69 seats.
---------------------
Result: the Government would be made of up of 2 or more parties, resulting in a coalition (not the Coalition) government. It would also give minor parties a greater chance of representation in the House of Representatives.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:29

greggerypeccary wrote:
Aussie wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:Will Jacqui be the next to fall?

We'll find out in 24 hours :bgrin


Why "24 hours?"


She said she hopes to know the result of her inquiry within 24 hours, and has promised to quit immediately if she's a dual citizen.

"Senator Lambie told Fairfax Media she had sought urgent advice last week as to whether she holds dual citizenship, and said she will resign from the Senate immediately if that is confirmed.


Haha, I like that '24-hour' deadline, it reminds of a funny provision that we could include in the Constitution:

"A person who is deemed to be a dual citizen, and who was, at the time of her or his election to that House, a citizen of another country, shall, within twenty-hours, commit suicide. If such members does not commit suicide within such twenty-four period, the citizens of that member's electorate shall organize a public execution of that member at the most public place in that electorate. Executions may be by any means necessary, but so that the member in question shall suffer as much pain as possible."
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:30

'Party." Where does an Independant get a look in?
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:35

Aussie wrote:'Party." Where does an Independant get a look in?


Independents are still allowed to run, either individually or as part of a 'semi-party' like the Jacqui Lambie Network.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:39

Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:'Party." Where does an Independant get a look in?


Independents are still allowed to run, either individually or as part of a 'semi-party' like the Jacqui Lambie Network.


Let's restrict this to an Independant. How does he get elected when all you refer to is a Party?
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 14:59

Re: Lambie.

Link.

Unless her Old Man renounced UK Citizenship between 1949 and Lambie's date of birth....she gorn!
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby greggerypeccary » 13 Nov 2017, 15:07

Aussie wrote:Re: Lambie.

Link.

Unless her Old Man renounced UK Citizenship between 1949 and Lambie's date of birth....she gorn!


:bgrin
greggerypeccary
Irish wolfhound
 
Posts: 649
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 15:52
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 15:58

Aussie wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:'Party." Where does an Independant get a look in?


Independents are still allowed to run, either individually or as part of a 'semi-party' like the Jacqui Lambie Network.


Let's restrict this to an Independant. How does he get elected when all you refer to is a Party?


It depends on the the specific system. For e.g. if we had a hybrid system like they do in NZ, then an independent could run in an electorate and the people would vote for him/her. This is the system I advocate for Australia. It's called MMP - mixed-member proportional representation: 60% of the members 90 members would be chosen in single-member electorates, whilst the remaining 60 members would be 'additional' or 'top-up' members for parties (if any). Any party that got at least 4% of the vote would be allocated a seat among the 60 seats. The independent would run among the 90 members.

Does this make sense?
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Nov 2017, 16:10

I prefer MPs representing the people in a specific electorate. I do not like PR as it always results in unstable coalitions.

Maybe Hare Clark?
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 41819
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 17:28

It depends on the the specific system.


What have I asked...Two questions was it, and already there is difficulty in explaining what you are promoting. I'm not dumb and have a bit of political nous, so what chance do you reckon you are going to have explaining it to the general populace of ignorants?
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 17:33

Aussie wrote:
It depends on the the specific system.


What have I asked...Two questions was it, and already there is difficulty in explaining what you are promoting. I'm not dumb and have a bit of political nous, so what chance do you reckon you are going to have explaining it to the general populace of ignorants?


It’s aftually not that hard. If the average NZ can understand it, we can too.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 17:34

HBS Guy wrote:I prefer MPs representing the people in a specific electorate. I do not like PR as it always results in unstable coalitions.

Maybe Hare Clark?


Then don’t complain about the two party dominance then.

It’s called Durverger’s law, look it up. The single member electorates produces two party system.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 17:56

Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:
It depends on the the specific system.


What have I asked...Two questions was it, and already there is difficulty in explaining what you are promoting. I'm not dumb and have a bit of political nous, so what chance do you reckon you are going to have explaining it to the general populace of ignorants?


It’s aftually not that hard. If the average NZ can understand it, we can too.


But that was not your initial explanation, as requested, to a Martian. Do the whole thing....please.

What is proportional representation in the House of Reps.
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Nov 2017, 17:57

When have I complained about the 2party system? Is 3 parties anyway,
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 41819
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 18:24

Aussie wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:
It depends on the the specific system.


What have I asked...Two questions was it, and already there is difficulty in explaining what you are promoting. I'm not dumb and have a bit of political nous, so what chance do you reckon you are going to have explaining it to the general populace of ignorants?


It’s aftually not that hard. If the average NZ can understand it, we can too.


But that was not your initial explanation, as requested, to a Martian. Do the whole thing....please.

What is proportional representation in the House of Reps.


I’ve already explained it. And have made guarantees for independents.

Do you support it?
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 18:26

Aussie wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Aussie wrote:
It depends on the the specific system.


What have I asked...Two questions was it, and already there is difficulty in explaining what you are promoting. I'm not dumb and have a bit of political nous, so what chance do you reckon you are going to have explaining it to the general populace of ignorants?


It’s aftually not that hard. If the average NZ can understand it, we can too.


But that was not your initial explanation, as requested, to a Martian. Do the whole thing....please.

What is proportional representation in the House of Reps.


There are different voting systems within PR: party lists, used in Europe, STV used in Australia, etc. MMP is another form of PR.

I see your confusion: I used systems to describe to different things. PR is the system; MMP, STV is the voting manner.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 18:27

HBS Guy wrote:When have I complained about the 2party system? Is 3 parties anyway,


Didn’t you say you wanted a radical party in government?
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 18:30

You have not explained it.

I asked:

Let's restrict this to an Independant. How does he get elected when all you refer to is a Party?


It depends on the the specific system. For e.g. if we had a hybrid system like they do in NZ, then an independent could run in an electorate and the people would vote for him/her. This is the system I advocate for Australia. It's called MMP - mixed-member proportional representation: 60% of the members 90 members would be chosen in single-member electorates, whilst the remaining 60 members would be 'additional' or 'top-up' members for parties (if any). Any party that got at least 4% of the vote would be allocated a seat among the 60 seats. The independent would run among the 90 members.


This is your great problem. You never keep it simple, and always over-lay complications when basic questions are put to you.

What is proportional representation in the House of Reps.

Explain it to the Martian.
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 19:05

Aussie wrote:You have not explained it.

I asked:

Let's restrict this to an Independant. How does he get elected when all you refer to is a Party?


It depends on the the specific system. For e.g. if we had a hybrid system like they do in NZ, then an independent could run in an electorate and the people would vote for him/her. This is the system I advocate for Australia. It's called MMP - mixed-member proportional representation: 60% of the members 90 members would be chosen in single-member electorates, whilst the remaining 60 members would be 'additional' or 'top-up' members for parties (if any). Any party that got at least 4% of the vote would be allocated a seat among the 60 seats. The independent would run among the 90 members.


This is your great problem. You never keep it simple, and always over-lay complications when basic questions are put to you.

What is proportional representation in the House of Reps.

Explain it to the Martian.


Well, I’m sorry if people are too stupid to understand any complex systems.

Perhaps that’s why we elect idiots in to parliament because they reflect the intelligence of the electorate.
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Nov 2017, 19:55

Proportional representation:

A country votes, votes are counted. Assume 100 seats:

A Party that won 40% of the vote gets 40 seats, a Party that wins 30% of the vote gets 30 seats and so on.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 41819
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 20:07

HBS Guy wrote:Proportional representation:

A country votes, votes are counted. Assume 100 seats:

A Party that won 40% of the vote gets 40 seats, a Party that wins 30% of the vote gets 30 seats and so on.


And what of someone who is an Independant? No Party? Locked out?
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Nov 2017, 21:42

In straight proportional, has to win 1% of the vote.
Mr X can do it, is on 2–3%
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 41819
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Auggie » 13 Nov 2017, 21:47

HBS Guy wrote:In straight proportional, has to win 1% of the vote.
Mr X can do it, is on 2–3%


Happy now, Hero?

Will you now stop asking questions and sign the constitution?
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Auggie
Red Czar
 
Posts: 337
Joined: 02 Oct 2017, 18:05
spamone: Animal

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby HBS Guy » 13 Nov 2017, 22:04

Nope, don’t like PR.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
User avatar
HBS Guy
Tractors to Australia
 
Posts: 41819
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 15:37

Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Aussie » 13 Nov 2017, 22:13

Auggie wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:In straight proportional, has to win 1% of the vote.
Mr X can do it, is on 2–3%


Happy now, Hero?

Will you now stop asking questions and sign the constitution?


How does ONE Independant get even 1% of a State Wide vote? When I ran in a State seat, I made money, but can't recall what % vote it was.......way in excess of 1% but that was just in ONE electorate. I would never have got to 1% State wide, I guess.
User avatar
Aussie
Hero of the Soviet Union
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: 13 Mar 2010, 18:25

PreviousNext

Return to Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron