NBN 2

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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 09:56

Telecommunications expert Paul Budde writes that it has taken four years for the government and the NBN company to admit what many people have been warning since the beginning of the change in plans from FttH (fibre to the home) to FttN (fibre to the node). He sheets the majority of the blame at Turnbull’s feet.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/nbn-let-the-blame-game-begin-20171023-gz6ux6.html

Everything the idiot turdfull was warned about has come true! In power, Labor should increase the AVC price and eliminate the CVC cost entirely and ensure RSPs provide enough bandwidth.

That will show up the problems with the copper and fibre can be rolled out again to universal acclaim! As well, Labor “shareholder Ministers” (Finance and Communications) can ask where the real known problem spots are and direct fibre to replace the copper there ASAP. Also, Fibre on Demand needs to be reinstated at realistic prices.

The more people there are on FTTH the more people will want fibre! That is why “Technology Choice” gave wildly inflated prices to discourage people from paying to have fibre rolled out to them. Gives me an idea for an email to Michelle Rowland, shadow Comms Minister and to Shorten.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 10:26

Here is something I drafted—have not sent it yet. Please comment on it. I will then post it on Whirlpool and see what comments come from there.

Dear Ms Rowland,

The NBN—the real NBN—is vital to the future of the nation.

Communications Minister Turnbull knew the Telstra copper was inadequate (a meeting he addressed before the 2013 election all the questions were about peoples’ problems with their Telstra copper landline) yet still directed NBN Co to change to the MTM. All the problems technically knowledgeable people said would happen have happened. The copper—landline and HFC—is not fit for purpose nor, consequently is the MTM.

When Labor forms government at the next election it must roll out FTTH, at least in the FTTN areas. That will cost $20Bn—and the Coalition and Murdoch press will lambast it as a waste of money. A strategy and tactics needs to be devised to offset this (and the lack of fibre (fibre splicing etc) skills in NBN Co.)


Strategy

A strategy should incorporate two important facts:

1. The more fibre that is rolled out the more people not on fibre want fibre!

So a Labor government can certainly ask for a list of “blackspots” and direct NBN Co to run out fibre there and make sure the installers are directly contracted by NBN Co and well trained. More fibre technicians can be trained and fibre installers previously employed by NBN Co tempted back.

All the technology and techniques applied in Project Fox must be applied to cut cost and time to roll out. This will cut the cost and time to roll out FTTH by half. Why not poach some staff from Chorus in NZ?

Further, to increase the amount of copper replaced by fibre the Technology Choice program should be renamed “Fibre on Demand” again, a small (not $600) fee to obtain a quote charged and then a realistic and detailed quote be expeditiously prepared and sent to the person requesting the quote. Some effort could be made to approach people in the same street if they would like to receive fibre and make a contribution to the cost.


2. The problems of the copper are masked by the CVC charge which is way too high.

So the Labor government should ASAP direct NBN Co to scrap the CVC charge and increase the AVC charge so the change is almost revenue neutral. That will show up the problems with the copper and the very worst can have the copper replaced by fibre.

By the time both changes have been implemented NBN Co will have plenty of fibre installers trained and directed by NBN Co itself. A more ambitious replacement of copper by fibre can then be rolled out.


Tactics.

To prepare the way for the resumption of the rollout of FTTH plenty of horror stories can be revealed in Question Time with some real juicy ones held back until the resumption of the ubiquitous FTTH rollout resumes and the Libs try to criticise that.

There are other ways to increase the amount of fibre rolled out. The fixed wireless towers need fibre as backhaul to the internet, microwave is not capable of carrying enough traffic. Why not connect houses along the route to the fibre? The more fibre that is rolled out the more other people will want it!

The rollout of 5G really also needs fibre to connect it back to the net—let NBN Co roll it out and connect people on the route to the fibre. How can anyone criticise maximising the value of 5G?

Maybe the Tasmanian government will pay towards a FTTH rollout to the West Coast? (The ultimate area Fibre on Demand!) That really will be a propaganda coup for NBN Co! The councils that wanted to co-pay to a Fibre on Demand for towns in their area—approach them with realistic, even very generous, offers! The more fibre that is rolled out the higher the demand will be for FTTH! Review all of these approaches back to 2012!




(Will sign with real name and street address)




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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 15:18

Revised email. Love some decent comments!

Dear Ms Rowland,

SUMMARY:
The real NBN is needed for the health of the Australian community and economy. A strategy would be based on:

1. The more FTTH is rolled out the more internet users not on fibre will want FTTH! Blackspots, Fibre on Demand, copayments by rural councils.

2. The CVC charge is masking problems with the copper. Eliminate it, fix the worst of the copper.

All these minor rollouts of fibre to be used to train new fibre workers.


Introduction

The NBN—the real NBN—is vital for the future of the economy and the nation.

Communications Minister Turnbull knew the Telstra copper was inadequate (a meeting he addressed before the 2013 election all the questions were about peoples’ problems with their Telstra copper landline) yet still directed NBN Co to change to the NBN after the 2013 election. All the problems technically knowledgeable people said would happen have happened. The copper—landline and HFC—is not fit for purpose nor, consequently is the MTM.

When Labor forms government at the next election it must roll out FTTH, at least in the FTTN areas. That will cost $20Bn—and the Coalition and Murdoch press will lambast it as a waste of money. A strategy and tactics need to be devised to offset this (and the lack of fibre (fibre splicing etc) skills in NBN Co.)


Strategy

A workable strategy should incorporate two important facts:

1. The more fibre that is rolled out the more people not on fibre want fibre!

So a Labor government can certainly ask for a list of “blackspots” and direct NBN Co to run out fibre there and make sure the installers are directly contracted by NBN Co and well trained. More fibre technicians can be trained and fibre installers previously employed by NBN Co tempted back. Some skilled staff could be “poached” from Chorus in NZ. Some lessons from the Chorus successful FTTH rollout must be learned.

Further, to increase the amount of copper replaced by fibre the Technology Choice program should be renamed Fibre on Demand, a small (not $600) fee to obtain a quote charged and then a realistic and detailed quote be expeditiously prepared and sent to the person requesting the quote. Some effort could be made to approach people in the same street if they would like to receive fibre too and pay a contribution to the cost.

There are other ways to increase the amount of fibre rolled out. The fixed wireless towers need fibre as backhaul to the internet, microwave is not capable of carrying enough traffic. Why not connect houses along the route to the fibre? The more fibre that is rolled out the more other people will want it! FW is not delivering what it can deliver to those relying on it

The rollout of 5G really also needs fibre to connect it back to the net—let NBN Co roll it out and connect people on the route to the fibre.

Maybe the Tasmanian government will pay towards a FTTH rollout to the West Coast? (The ultimate Fibre on Demand!) That really will be a propaganda coup for NBN Co! The councils that wanted to copay to a Fibre on Demand for towns in their area—approach them with realistic, even very generous, offers! The more fibre that is rolled out the higher the demand will be for FTTH! Review all of these approaches back to 2012!


2. The problems of the copper are masked by the CVC charge which is way too high.

So the Labor government should ASAP direct NBN Co to scrap the CVC charge and increase the AVC charge so the change is almost revenue neutral. That will show up the problems with the copper and the very worst can have the copper replaced by fibre.

By the time both changes have been implemented NBN Co will have plenty of fibre installers trained and directed by NBN Co itself. A more ambitious and systematic replacement of copper by fibre can then be rolled out.

This rollout some areas need to be chosen that will generate substantial revenue for RSPs and NBN Co! The last FTTH rollout was handicapped by the need to start in rural areas.


Tactics

To prepare the way for the resumption of the rollout of FTTH plenty of horror stories can be revealed in Question Time with some real juicy ones held back until the resumption of the ubiquitous FTTH rollout and the Libs try to criticise that. Murdoch won’t help them much—he wants to be an RSP and info seller over FTTH.




I really hope the FTTH rollout will be resumed ASAP!
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Re: NBN 2

Postby Aussie » 26 Oct 2017, 15:42

I have no capacity to contribute. As usual, if I know nothing about a subject.....I generally shut up about it.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 15:43

Well, it is more politics than anything but no matter.

Going to let this email sit in my Drafts folder, look at it again in a couple weeks, polish it.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby greggerypeccary » 26 Oct 2017, 15:48

Aussie wrote:I have no capacity to contribute. As usual, if I know nothing about a subject.....I generally shut up about it.


Same here, really.

I didn't know there was such a huge problem.

I hooked up to the NBN the day it became available in my street .

I have fibre right to the lounge room, and have never had a problem.

I pay for 25/5, and usually average 23/4.5, so can't really complain.

Plus, they came back after 12 months and installed a battery back-up unit which I didn't even ask for.

They just knocked on the door and said, "you should have one of these", and promptly installed it.

I couldn't be happier.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby johnsmith » 26 Oct 2017, 15:53

Aussie wrote:I have no capacity to contribute. As usual, if I know nothing about a subject.....I generally shut up about it.



that must be a fairly new thing with you! :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 15:58

OK, ahahahaha

Will add your good news story and Aussie’s whinging about his impending FTTN crap.

Otherwise why not send an email of your experiences and concerns to Michellle when I send this email? Gives you time to draft something up. You could copy my email and put your story above it. Or something.

Assuming it survives the desperate Lib govt GetUp should be involved in lobbying for FTTH to be rolled out.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby Aussie » 26 Oct 2017, 16:20

johnsmith wrote:
Aussie wrote:I have no capacity to contribute. As usual, if I know nothing about a subject.....I generally shut up about it.



that must be a fairly new thing with you! :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo


:up
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Re: NBN 2

Postby johnsmith » 26 Oct 2017, 16:39

Aussie wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Aussie wrote:I have no capacity to contribute. As usual, if I know nothing about a subject.....I generally shut up about it.



that must be a fairly new thing with you! :yahoo :yahoo :yahoo


:up

:yahoo :yahoo :yahoo
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Re: NBN 2

Postby davo » 26 Oct 2017, 16:48

All points are covered well a pity Conroy is gone he could have made life for Fifeld very difficult.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 17:35

Too late to worry about that.

I want the next Labor govt to roll out ubiquitous fibre. That will see the Libs and Merde-och whinge and claim waste of money. Also need to recruit and train a new fibre workforce. Cost expected to be $20Bn.

So, we need to be sneaky. We also need to start small and need to bring management of the rollout in house. Why? The contractor-subcontractor model did not work well, untrained people, sub- and subsub-contractors etc. A mess, people not paid yadda yadda. In the NT the main contractor went broke (or something) so NBN Co managed the NT roll out and the whole thing went very smoothly.

It really is the case that the more people have fibre the more other people want fibre. So do some small scale rollouts training staff along the way, fix up blackspots (like pinkeye here who is on over a kilometre of copper!) and train more staff.

LOTS of people are interested in Fibre on Demand so make it available, charge say $100 to prepare a quote and the quote should be real and it should be accurate. More fibre gets run out. There were shitloads of councils talking to NBN Co for an Area Switch, making a co-payment to have towns in their area rolled out with fibre where normally (less than 1000 premises) fibre would not be run out.

I reckon these people and councils would take up a real offer to roll out fibre. For individuals I reckon other people in their street/along the route of the fibre would be interested in contributing a small amount to the rollout and getting FTTH themselves. All rollouts train new fibre optic workers.

Roll out as much fibre as possible, starting small and training more and more people.

Now, the reason the net dies at night in FTTN areas—CVC charge, $17/mbps and to get real 25mbps your ISP would have to buy 25 x $17 worth of CVC each month, too dear. There is also a AVC charge per connection. That could be increased and the CVC charge halved or done away with altogether then make all connections 100:40.

The congestion and problems remaining then will be from the poor state of the Telstra copper and the totally inadequate amount of fibre going into a node—5mpbs if everyone was on the net at the same time. Then fix up the worst areas with FTTH.

All the problems with copper internet, FTTN and the Foxtel cable (HFC, Hybrid Fibre Coax) all the horror stories can be brought out by Dorothy Dixers in QT. The VERY FIRST dixer should be on the MTM!

Ah, forgot this when drafting the email, business, the small and medium businesses that either cannot afford or find it expensive to have private fibre service rolled out should be scheduled to have fibre rolled out as soon as enough people are trained. All the industrial and commercial precincts—and any houses on the route of the fibre! Business will take out decent plans, I would make it 250:250 minimum and so make good revenue for NBN Co! Concentrate on the big cities but do not forget regional centres.

So, roll out fibre, starting small, train people on the rollouts, hammer the Libs in QT about how totally crap FTTN is. When another 500,000 premises are on FTTH with a reasonable CVC so 100:40 becomes the default or minimum rate (those who want phone only—give them a mobile phone, don’t fuck around with 12:1 plans for shits sake) I reckon LOTS of people will want stable, reliable, rock solid FTTH 100:40 so roll it out.

Copy the Chorus NZ rollout, only rollout to those who want it, just roll it out out out!

Would love 100:40, host this bloody board myself!

A minor cost saving—but all savings are good—have a NTU with two points. The one in the original rollout had four points, you could have FTTN from four different RSPs at the same time. Useful in share accommodation I suppose but a normal home only needs ONE connection. $20 saving over millions of homes, got to be worthwhile.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 19:36

Schools and hospitals should be fibred up ASAP and I would even give rural areas priority here: they need it much more than city business/hospitals/schools do.

In SA cooperate with the GigCity rollout the State Govt is doing.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby Aussie » 26 Oct 2017, 19:49

HBS Guy wrote:Schools and hospitals should be fibred up ASAP and I would even give rural areas priority here: they need it much more than city business/hospitals/schools do.

In SA cooperate with the GigCity rollout the State Govt is doing.



Priority, yes.....good point.

I don't want the NBN....I don't need the NBN......if it is fucked and replaces what I know works.

Yes....take it to essential (as opposed to domestic/leisure) places first. Make that work, and when you can assure me that it will work....when you FORCE me to take it....I will be a happy camper. Don't FORCE me to cop your shit product!

Why fuck me around when I have a perfectly serviceable product and have zero need for this bastard.....WHICH DOES NOT WORK anyway!
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 19:59

FTTH works and need not be expensive—that is what all the CVC stuff is about.

!00:40 reliably all the time. Find a website that will rent you space and set up a backup so that everyday your computer sends your files to that place: this is called using the cloud, cloud backup. Your place burns down, your computer fails/is stolen—your files are all intact.

Talk to your driver with high def video, ditto Donnie Darko, grand kids etc.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 20:11

And you WILL want FTTH because:

1. Your copper will not get better with age and rain.

2. The copper cannot serve you 4K TV and more and more video through Netflix etc will be 4K

3. Your operating system and its patches is not getting smaller and are only distributed via the web.

4. Fibre can operate fully submersed under water, copper can’t. I believe you get some rain your way? Floods even?
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Re: NBN 2

Postby Aussie » 26 Oct 2017, 20:20

HBS Guy wrote:And you WILL want FTTH because:

1. Your copper will not get better with age and rain.

2. The copper cannot serve you 4K TV and more and more video through Netflix etc will be 4K

3. Your operating system and its patches is not getting smaller and are only distributed via the web.

4. Fibre can operate fully submersed under water, copper can’t. I believe you get some rain your way? Floods even?


I am happy to want FFTH.....but I don't want a FTTN which does not work. Is that too hard to understand? Fuck the whole thing off until they get it right. Until then, leave me alone with my ADSL which WORKS!
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 20:28

I understand that! My copper is so crap the landline stopped working, tried a new phone and all. Am on wireless broadband, 12:1. Bit basic but consistent. Be on FTTH in Tassie! Yeah!
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Re: NBN 2

Postby johnsmith » 26 Oct 2017, 20:38

Aussie wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:And you WILL want FTTH because:

1. Your copper will not get better with age and rain.

2. The copper cannot serve you 4K TV and more and more video through Netflix etc will be 4K

3. Your operating system and its patches is not getting smaller and are only distributed via the web.

4. Fibre can operate fully submersed under water, copper can’t. I believe you get some rain your way? Floods even?


I am happy to want FFTH.....but I don't want a FTTN which does not work. Is that too hard to understand? Fuck the whole thing off until they get it right. Until then, leave me alone with my ADSL which WORKS!



you won't get a choice.

Aren't you in a penthouse apartment or some such thing? If so, you won't get fibre to the node, you'll get coax. to the premises.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby Aussie » 26 Oct 2017, 20:43

johnsmith wrote:
Aussie wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:And you WILL want FTTH because:

1. Your copper will not get better with age and rain.

2. The copper cannot serve you 4K TV and more and more video through Netflix etc will be 4K

3. Your operating system and its patches is not getting smaller and are only distributed via the web.

4. Fibre can operate fully submersed under water, copper can’t. I believe you get some rain your way? Floods even?


I am happy to want FFTH.....but I don't want a FTTN which does not work. Is that too hard to understand? Fuck the whole thing off until they get it right. Until then, leave me alone with my ADSL which WORKS!



you won't get a choice.

Aren't you in a penthouse apartment or some such thing? If so, you won't get fibre to the node, you'll get coax. to the premises.


You are right, and that is what is shitting me. They are FORCING me to take an inferior fuck up and also want to charge me for a thing WHICH DOES NOT WORK.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby davo » 26 Oct 2017, 20:45

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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Oct 2017, 20:52

Coax, only if there is HFC there AND Aussie has a lead in, i.e. is connected to HFC (Telstra cable.)

If there is some private fibre nearby you might get FTTB, Fibre to the Basement, only a bit of copper, good speed.
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Re: NBN 2

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Oct 2017, 22:56

The Monthly on the NBN

https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2017/april/1490965200/paddy-manning/network-error

(published Apr 2017, little bit behind on a couple of things.)
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Re: NBN 2

Postby MilesAway » 28 Oct 2017, 23:14

davo wrote:K Rudd didnt hold back on the 7.30 report not very often that you hear Murdoch cop a serve in the media. :thumb

For democracy to be held mute by commercial interest is simply fascism: Kevin Rudd will never be forgotten for telling the people what they know to be true and it contrasts starkly with the fact nobody else has the guts to say it!

He gave the Australian people fibre to the home and will never be forgotten because of it!

This is political history and to think they once called this nation the clever country... The kids will just look at us all in shame :tweed
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Re: NBN 2

Postby MilesAway » 28 Oct 2017, 23:16

Aussie wrote:I watched it. Nothing new at all learned even by me. I've been better informed here.

It's like watching a science program!

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