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New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 19:00

For those of you who are familiar with my work, you'll know about my various proposals for a New Constitution for a New Australian Republic. True, whilst I consider myself a Monarchist, there should be an option for Australians to adopt a New Republican Constitution, if that's what we want.

The New Republic is based on a the American system, which I admit has many flaws; but through detailed research and analysis, I believe that I have made the correct modifications to improve the system so that it functions more effectively.

The idea of Constitutional reform is to ensure that our elected representatives are more accountable to the people, and to ensure that there is the best opportunity to pass the best laws possible. The American system of government, known as the 'Presidential system' has two distinct advantages: 1) there is a unitary executive - the President, who executes the executive power solely (i.e. without the need to cajole to a Cabinet); and 2) the Legislature (i.e. the Parliament/Congress) is more free to represent their constituencies, since they are free of Parliamentary Discipline.

The disadvantages are well-known and do not need to be reiterated here.

So without further ado, here is my proposal for a New Australian Republic: (please note that provisions of difference with the US Constitution are listed in bold text ).
-------
Congress:
- consists of two Houses: a Federal Council and House of Representatives. The Federal Council consists of: (edited) members from each State, chosen directly by the people for a term of 6 years, with one-half of the members being chosen every 3 years and the number of members of the Federal Council shall be twice the number of members of the House of Representatives . The House of Representatives is composed of members for each State directly chosen by the people every 3 years, in accordance with the MMP system (used in NZ and Germany - look it up).

- a member of Congress shall not serve more than 12 years in either House, or both, in any combination of terms during their lifetime. (or if you prefer - 8 years in either House, and then 4 years in jail :bgrin)

- appropriation bills can only be passed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses unless the bill is submitted by the President. Amendments to an appropriation bill submitted by the President can only be amended by such two-thirds vote.

- the President may veto line items in specific appropriation bill.

- all bills shall deal with one subject and nothing else - this prevents what is known in American parlance as 'riders'.

- Congress may not delegate power to the President or to any Executive officer, agency for a period of more than six months, which delegation shall expire unless re enacted by the Congress explicitly. This prevents the President from issuing executive orders for ever and ever amen.

Executive:
- President: elected by electors chosen, in turn, by the people of the States. Each State shall have a number of electors equal to the whole number of members of both Houses to which each State is entitled (i.e. if NSW has 48 representatives, and 6 members of the Federal Council, they'll have 54 electors). Each State is then divided into districts, each one returning a single elector who shall be chosen by preferential voting. Every elector shall have printed next to her or his name the person whom she or he supports for President. A poll is then taken in each district, and the person elected as President shall be the person for whom support has been declared (pursuant to the foregoing paragraph of such number of electors equal to not less than a majority of the whole number of electors appointed).

The President shall be elected for a term of 6 years, and shall not be re-eligible. The President may be impeached by a two-thirds vote of the Federal Council.

The President may, according to his discretion, fire any Cabinet member or civil servant for any reason he deems necessary. - This allows the President to clean house and not be beholden to the civil service.
------
I'll leave it there for now. We can discuss what's written here, and/or issues with the current US system and a New Australian Republic would resolve them.
Last edited by Auggie on 14 Oct 2017, 17:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 19:04

CaesarAugustus wrote: if you prefer - 8 years in either House, and then 4 years in jail


you have my vote.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 19:04

CaesarAugustus wrote: if you prefer - 8 years in either House, and then 4 years in jail


you have my vote.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 19:07

johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote: if you prefer - 8 years in either House, and then 4 years in jail


you have my vote.


:bgrin :bgrin :bgrin
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 19:17

president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 19:21

If you are a monarchist (in 2017??) why not design an Australian royalty?

I want free of England and I want that union jack off our flag. A republic seems natural to me but explore all options.

King Howard the First of Australasia!


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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 19:22

HBS Guy wrote:If you are a monarchist (in 2017??) why not design an Australian royalty?


no one should EVER be born into the role of leader. You need to earn that position
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 19:24

A monarch is not a leader, just a symbol, figurehead.

I don’t want a fucking monarch, but why not explore the option?
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 19:24

johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 19:25

HBS Guy wrote:If you are a monarchist (in 2017??) why not design an Australian royalty?

I want free of England and I want that union jack off our flag. A republic seems natural to me but explore all options.

King Howard the First of Australasia!


(chunder!!!!)


Because in reality, the British Monarch is our Monarch. What would an Australian monarch look like? From where would they derive their right to be King/Queen?
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 19:43

Popular vote? :clap :clap :clap

Nah, we want a model of a modern democracy—fight to the death among those who volunteer to be king, a nice nod to how this crap started?

These are details—could a truly modern monarchy work?
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 20:21

CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.


the less power we give to the 'cartel' the better. At least in parliament they pretend to have to negotiate it through parliament.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 20:26

HBS Guy wrote:Popular vote? :clap :clap :clap

Nah, we want a model of a modern democracy—fight to the death among those who volunteer to be king, a nice nod to how this crap started?

These are details—could a truly modern monarchy work?


HBS, the issue with popular vote, by which I think you mean 'one man, one vote' is that only the votes of NSW, QLD, and VIC would matter; and to hell with the rest of the country.

The electoral college idea that I have proposed ensures that the larger States get a bigger say, but that the smallest State TAS gets enough of a say to be considered. If that makes sense. For example, under the electoral college, TAS would have 11 votes (assuming 5 reps and 6 councillors); and NSW would 54 votes. This makes NSW vote 5 times stronger than TAS. If we adopt the 'one man, one vote' principal, then NSW voting power is more than 7 times that of TAS.

Makes sense lots of?
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 20:27

johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.


the less power we give to the 'cartel' the better. At least in parliament they pretend to have to negotiate it through parliament.


Who's the 'cartel' in this case. I don't understand.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 20:33

Call me Monk (I fucked up setting the Founder/Admin and the Posting accounts here.)

Not a real problem, copy another thing from the septics—an Electoral College, 5 votes per state.

I see the first step, decide among models:

1. Anarchy

2. Monarchy—or similar, theocracy

3. Republic
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 20:42

HBS Guy wrote:Call me Monk (I fucked up setting the Founder/Admin and the Posting accounts here.)

Not a real problem, copy another thing from the septics—an Electoral College, 5 votes per state.

I see the first step, decide among models:

1. Anarchy

2. Monarchy—or similar, theocracy

3. Republic


Anarchy is not ideal, and almost impossible.

Monarch is good, provided that it's a constitutional monarchy.

Republic is the second alternative.

Let's discuss the details.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 20:46

CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.


the less power we give to the 'cartel' the better. At least in parliament they pretend to have to negotiate it through parliament.


Who's the 'cartel' in this case. I don't understand.


in this case the political parties. ... forget the different names, they always look after each other first.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 20:49

Of course it has to be a constitutional monarchy! Like we have now but some yobbo on the throne who eats Four’n’Twenty pies instead of caviar.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 03 Oct 2017, 20:50

johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.


the less power we give to the 'cartel' the better. At least in parliament they pretend to have to negotiate it through parliament.


Who's the 'cartel' in this case. I don't understand.


in this case the political parties. ... forget the different names, they always look after each other first.


Unfortunately, political parties are a necessary evil. The American Founders were naive to not create their system of government based on political parties.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 03 Oct 2017, 22:22

CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
johnsmith wrote:president should be elected by the senate only. Mostly to act as a figure head, open stadiums, welcome dignitaries etc, but also take on all the roles of the GG. Call elections, swear in new govt. etc.

For this he should be paid only slightly more than an average salary, plus given use of the GG's house, a car when showing foreign dignitaries around. Maximum term of 8 years.


Because in this system, the President is equivalent to that of the American President. She/he has broad executive powers.


the less power we give to the 'cartel' the better. At least in parliament they pretend to have to negotiate it through parliament.


Who's the 'cartel' in this case. I don't understand.


in this case the political parties. ... forget the different names, they always look after each other first.


Unfortunately, political parties are a necessary evil. The American Founders were naive to not create their system of government based on political parties.


not necessarily true. We think political parties are a necessary evil because that's what they keep telling us. I much prefer a more direct democracy, each member of parliament votes according to the wishes of the constituents he is meant to represent, not his parties and not his donors.

The 5 star party in Italy is a great starting point.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby Auggie » 07 Oct 2017, 14:11

not necessarily true. We think political parties are a necessary evil because that's what they keep telling us. I much prefer a more direct democracy, each member of parliament votes according to the wishes of the constituents he is meant to represent, not his parties and not his donors.

The 5 star party in Italy is a great starting point.


Direct democracy cannot exist without representative democracy. In a representative democracy, parties are a necessary evil. Someone always has an agenda and an ideology. Being part of a political party identifies that person within that organisation, and makes them more accountable.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Oct 2017, 14:35

Look a republic would suit me fine. We should have looked at constitutional monarchy (or need a popularly elected HoS with no executive powers) because we DO need someone outside the cartel, someone with his own power base/mandate that comes from being freely elected.

We could chose some sprig of English Royalty, 10th in line to the throne say, might jump at being king. Then his kids born here can succeed. Not saying this is the best model but if you want to do a thorough job of constitutional engineering then a monarchy has to be considered. Like, would it get Aust for Monarchy on side?

If not a monarchy an elected president. Some former footballer or hack lawyer or retired scientist might like to be HoS etc. So elect someone, no politicians involved in selecting or campaigning for Prexy, just ONE maildrop summarising the jerkoffs running, a bio and a statement. Are elected at the closest relevant election to 6 year term.

Pres is figurehead like the GG and has same powers. Paid same rate as a backbencher or equivalent rate of some PS rank etc. If he choses not to attend Executive Council then Bills cannot be improved. This is the only feasible brake on executive power.

Something about war powers—Parliament to declare war? Or PM as now? Or PM and Prexxy?
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 07 Oct 2017, 15:49

CaesarAugustus wrote:Direct democracy cannot exist without representative democracy. In a representative democracy, parties are a necessary evil. Someone always has an agenda and an ideology. Being part of a political party identifies that person within that organisation, and makes them more accountable.


the model I would work towards is one where the 'representative' or MP is nothing more than an office bearer. An MP would represent a set number of constituents and It's the voters in that constituency that vote on each and every policy (if they wish, voting is not compulsory in this scenario). The Mp's job is then to vote in parliament according to the wishes of his membership. He has absolutely no leeway on this regardless of how much he receives in donations from multinationals. If the official can't bring himself to vote according to the wishes of his membership, he is immediately replaced by the 'party'. No need for another election.

The only time the 'MP' is not replaced is when he holds a portfolio, in which case he is in for the elected term. Ministers job is to seek advice on policy, sort through the bullshit and then advise the MP's on what he has found. They then take it to their members who vote/ But I would suggest that a minister cannot act as an MP for the people. He becomes another public servant there to do a job, sort through the shit, talk to the experts and advise parliament.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Oct 2017, 16:01

That would get unwieldy quick, John! And if using electronic voting—how to have an audit trail? And most people don’t want to be bothered.

Make it something like the jury system, 12 or 50, whatever, conscripted to consider a question. PS there to keep minutes, provide data, that would work.

150 electorates x No of jurors at $xx a juror per day would get expensive. But need only meet once or twice a year I suppose, really big issues are not that common.
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Re: New Australian Republic

Postby johnsmith » 08 Oct 2017, 09:38

HBS Guy wrote:That would get unwieldy quick, John! And if using electronic voting—how to have an audit trail? And most people don’t want to be bothered.

Make it something like the jury system, 12 or 50, whatever, conscripted to consider a question. PS there to keep minutes, provide data, that would work.

150 electorates x No of jurors at $xx a juror per day would get expensive. But need only meet once or twice a year I suppose, really big issues are not that common.


nah ... i don't think it would get unwieldy. Modern technology makes it fairly simple to do. 5 star party in Italy already has something similar up and running. I'm not sure about how the technical stiff works, but it's working over there so no reason why it won't work here. You (the members) don't have to vote on every bill, only the ones your interested in. This would mean when a bill comes up that affects, for example mental health industry, the people most likely to be effected, and those with the most experience in the industry, are more likely to vote for that particular bill than someone like me who has no real interest or knowledge of that particular industry. People in the transport industry are more likely to vote on transport related stuff etc etc. However if you don't vote you can't whinge about the result. It's the fairest way to get true democracy, without the influence of big business and corporations (or limited influence). Politicians are supposed to represent the voting public, not big business, and this will enable just that.
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