Civil Conscription

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Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 17:23

The whole process of looking for work by using conventional means, such as: cover letter, CV, and/or selection criteria, belong in the past. These processes were applicable for the post-war generation; but not for today. Today, people are more complex, and have unique needs. Young people are educated, but are not skilled to deal with the real-world job market. And what about people who have disabilities, such as mental health issues who might be educated but cannot complete adequately in the job market? What happens when the 'old' way of applying for a job becomes too stressful or not longer useful for such people? At the moment, you either have be on either end of the spectrum: - either a tradie or a doctor; if you're somewhere in the middle, then you're stuck there. What do we do about these people stuck in the middle? Educated, but those who cannot fit into either extreme.

What alternatives are there?

The only viable alternative in my view is civil conscription. The job-seeker gets a call from a government department asking them to rock up on Monday for their new job. No Cover Letter, no Resume, no application process. Young people are conscripted into the public service and given a job. This would reduce stress, and significantly enhance the confidence of these people.

The coercive power of the state is only viable solution for people stuck in the middle.

You may be thinking that we have something similar now, called Work for the Dole; but this programme is extremely limited, and is only available for those unemployed and on benefit for more than 12 months. People who are on disabilities are not entitled to this programme.

By asking these people to search for jobs on their own, we are condemning them to a life of continual under-employment.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby Aussie » 03 Oct 2017, 17:30

Implies a 'big brother' data base of all the people available, that they have the necessary skills and have been given whatever security etc clearance is required.

Big change.....but I would not be at all surprised if Orwell was not right on the money.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 17:55

Another idea is the “Job Guarantee” which is a favorite of Monetary economics (do a search here (it is a MUCH better search than on OzPol) for Monetary or bilbo.)
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 18:11

Aussie wrote:Implies a 'big brother' data base of all the people available, that they have the necessary skills and have been given whatever security etc clearance is required.

Big change.....but I would not be at all surprised if Orwell was not right on the money.


Well, that's true, I won't deny it. The only thing is that it applies to a specific group of people.

Either this is the way, or another alternative is to allow more flexibility with the minimum wage and let people in those situations work for as much or as little as they want.

For e.g. at the moment, there is something called the 'Supported Wage Scheme.' This allows an employer to pay an employee at a certain percentage of the minimum wage depending on their 'productivity'. This requires a Work Trial, attended by someone from Centrelink, and then this reviewed every now and then.

What SHOULD happen is that Centrelink gives permission (in the form of letter) to such person, who can then use this letter to go from employer to employer, using it as an 'incentive' to gain work. The employer then can decide to employ that person at lower than the minimum wage notwithstanding their disability, etc...

What do you think?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 18:13

Question: how do I receive notifications for replies of my post?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 18:18

CaesarAugustus wrote:Question: how do I receive notifications for replies of my post?


User Control Panel > Board Preferences > Edit posting defaults
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 18:25

HBS Guy wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:Question: how do I receive notifications for replies of my post?


User Control Panel > Board Preferences > Edit posting defaults


Ok, cheers. I think I've got it.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby Aussie » 03 Oct 2017, 18:27

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Aussie wrote:Implies a 'big brother' data base of all the people available, that they have the necessary skills and have been given whatever security etc clearance is required.

Big change.....but I would not be at all surprised if Orwell was not right on the money.


Well, that's true, I won't deny it. The only thing is that it applies to a specific group of people.

Either this is the way, or another alternative is to allow more flexibility with the minimum wage and let people in those situations work for as much or as little as they want.

For e.g. at the moment, there is something called the 'Supported Wage Scheme.' This allows an employer to pay an employee at a certain percentage of the minimum wage depending on their 'productivity'. This requires a Work Trial, attended by someone from Centrelink, and then this reviewed every now and then.

What SHOULD happen is that Centrelink gives permission (in the form of letter) to such person, who can then use this letter to go from employer to employer, using it as an 'incentive' to gain work. The employer then can decide to employ that person at lower than the minimum wage notwithstanding their disability, etc...

What do you think?


No. If a job pays $10.00 a week, whoever fills that job gets $10.00 a week.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 18:40

No. If a job pays $10.00 a week, whoever fills that job gets $10.00 a week.


I'm not sure what you mean. Excuse the straw-man: but are you saying that those with disabilities and low-experience shouldn't have extra bargaining power when looking for a job?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 18:41

CaesarAugustus wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:Question: how do I receive notifications for replies of my post?


User Control Panel > Board Preferences > Edit posting defaults


Ok, cheers. I think I've got it.


Glad I could help.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby Aussie » 03 Oct 2017, 18:51

CaesarAugustus wrote:
No. If a job pays $10.00 a week, whoever fills that job gets $10.00 a week.


I'm not sure what you mean. Excuse the straw-man: but are you saying that those with disabilities and low-experience shouldn't have extra bargaining power when looking for a job?


Darn tooting, that's a necessary consequence of what I am saying.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 19:30

Aussie wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
No. If a job pays $10.00 a week, whoever fills that job gets $10.00 a week.


I'm not sure what you mean. Excuse the straw-man: but are you saying that those with disabilities and low-experience shouldn't have extra bargaining power when looking for a job?


Darn tooting, that's a necessary consequence of what I am saying.


Well, that's not really fair then, is it?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby Aussie » 03 Oct 2017, 20:51

Fair? Hang on....aren't we selecting the best person to do a $10.00 job?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 20:53

Aussie wrote:Fair? Hang on....aren't we selecting the best person to do a $10.00 job?


Yes, of course. But, shouldn't the employer have the choice to determine if he wishes to employ someone with less capability at a lower rate?

The employer can choose to 'best person' if she/he wishes so. No one is forcing the employer (in this case) to hire the disabled person; it merely provides an 'incentive'.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby Aussie » 03 Oct 2017, 21:10

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Aussie wrote:Fair? Hang on....aren't we selecting the best person to do a $10.00 job?


Yes, of course. But, shouldn't the employer have the choice to determine if he wishes to employ someone with less capability at a lower rate?

The employer can choose to 'best person' if she/he wishes so. No one is forcing the employer (in this case) to hire the disabled person; it merely provides an 'incentive'.


No. It is a $10.00 job.....not a $7.00 job.

Gawd, your position on this is almost prostitutorial.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 21:13

Aussie wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
Aussie wrote:Fair? Hang on....aren't we selecting the best person to do a $10.00 job?


Yes, of course. But, shouldn't the employer have the choice to determine if he wishes to employ someone with less capability at a lower rate?

The employer can choose to 'best person' if she/he wishes so. No one is forcing the employer (in this case) to hire the disabled person; it merely provides an 'incentive'.


No. It is a $10.00 job.....not a $7.00 job.

Gawd, your position on this is almost prostitutorial.


I'm only looking at it from my point of view.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 21:28

YOU are worth $7/hour????
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 03 Oct 2017, 21:29

HBS Guy wrote:YOU are worth $7/hour????


I'm probably worth less than that, Aussie.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby HBS Guy » 03 Oct 2017, 21:29

$5?
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 02 Feb 2018, 18:47

HBS Guy wrote:$5?


That'd do it. $5. That's as low as I'd go.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby MilesAway » 02 Feb 2018, 19:20

CaesarAugustus wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:$5?


That'd do it. $5. That's as low as I'd go.

:roll
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby CaesarAugustus » 02 Feb 2018, 19:50

MilesAway wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:$5?


That'd do it. $5. That's as low as I'd go.

:roll


Stay way from my kids buddy.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby johnsmith » 02 Feb 2018, 20:23

when I was younger school leavers were invited to sit an government entrance exam

your result would determine where they offered you a position. I sat this exam after I finished the HSC and was offered a job as a customs officer at Sydney airport (something that up to that point I had never considered).

I instead opted, at the behest of my father, to do an Assoc.Dip in Accounting course at TAFE. It proved to be total waste of two years. I wasn't qualified enough for accounting work, I was overqualified for clerical type work.

My one regret in life is that I didn't take the customs job.
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby MilesAway » 02 Feb 2018, 20:28

CaesarAugustus wrote:
MilesAway wrote:
CaesarAugustus wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:$5?


That'd do it. $5. That's as low as I'd go.

:roll


Stay way from my kids buddy.

You’re a filthy liar mate!

You’d work for 5 bucks an hour my ass :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer

You think you’re sly :bgrin
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Re: Civil Conscription

Postby johnsmith » 02 Feb 2018, 20:32

CaesarAugustus wrote:
Aussie wrote:Implies a 'big brother' data base of all the people available, that they have the necessary skills and have been given whatever security etc clearance is required.

Big change.....but I would not be at all surprised if Orwell was not right on the money.


Well, that's true, I won't deny it. The only thing is that it applies to a specific group of people.

Either this is the way, or another alternative is to allow more flexibility with the minimum wage and let people in those situations work for as much or as little as they want.

For e.g. at the moment, there is something called the 'Supported Wage Scheme.' This allows an employer to pay an employee at a certain percentage of the minimum wage depending on their 'productivity'. This requires a Work Trial, attended by someone from Centrelink, and then this reviewed every now and then.

What SHOULD happen is that Centrelink gives permission (in the form of letter) to such person, who can then use this letter to go from employer to employer, using it as an 'incentive' to gain work. The employer then can decide to employ that person at lower than the minimum wage notwithstanding their disability, etc...

What do you think?



those sorts of schemes ALWAYS end up being abused.

I don't know if they still do it, but years ago the govt. used to offer me subsided wages if I offered a long term unemployed person an apprenticeship. From memory, I think I got about $5000 back on a first year apprentice, after that it may have been a couple of grand the second year then the subsidies stopped.
I know many employers who as soon as the subsidies stopped, the parson was sacked for no reason, and another long term unemployed hired to take their place, purely so they could get their subsidy. I wasn't one of those, I keep all my apprentices through to the end, except one, who I had to let go because apart from his 3 week trial, called in sick every single Monday for about 6 months.
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