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Re: Australian economy

Postby Squire » 19 Oct 2017, 12:51

Lefty wrote:Squire - Australia made good cars and some of them had ready export markets. The industry was deliberately shot in both knees and then kerbstomped by Abbot and Hockey. It was already bleeding heavily from the astonishing ideological zeal with which this country pursues a campaign to de-industrialise and erase the ability to do much other than make coffee and sell each other real estate (or increasingly, sell it to well-heeled foreigners and squeeze our own young people out of home ownership). Apart from growing food and digging up rocks, which employs only a tiny fraction of the labour force and mostly belongs to foreigners.

This sort of thing is not even free trade. It's like a lopsided boxing match where I voluntarily bind myself to Queensbury rules but tell my opponent he is free to bite, eye gouge, tackle, kick me in the balls, throw salt in my eyes - anything he likes. It is stupidity, pure and simple and the outcome is a given.

While carmaking in western countries may have downsized, I cannot think of another country that has so deliberately beheaded it's own capacity for something as fundamental as mechanical engineering.

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with expensive, poor-quality vehicles being supplanted by cheaper yet better quality vehicles - it is a case of one country being so obsessed with the ideology you mention that it unilaterally pursues a spectrum of policies literally designed to destroy it's own manufacturing base. The carmakers based here were not purely local, they were global and that gave our industry access to high-tech innovations from nations with advanced manufacturing sectors - that will now cease since even if we can access the knowledge we've just shitcanned the ability to do anything with it anyway.

Other countries pay varying degrees of lip service to the notion of pure, unfettered global markets - because they aren't stupid. We appear to posses a unique brand of stupidity and are racing headlong to wind back the clock to the days when we were a colony, unable to do a thing for ourselves and totally dependent on those on the other side of the world for every last requirement.


This is bull. If Australian car manufacturer export markets were robust nothing that happened in Australia other than exchange rates and wage rates would have affected them. Exchange rates would have been easy to overcome by having competitive sources for overseas components if Australian components became too expensive through high exchange rates.

The Germans, Japanese and Koreans all continued to grow their exports despite rising exchange rates.

You are right about the stupidity. Other countries don't use stupidity as an industrial manufacturing input.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 19 Oct 2017, 13:07

Which part of the fact that other car manufacturing nations support the existence of their industry instead of deliberately sabotaging it is mysterious to you?
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Re: Australian economy

Postby HBS Guy » 19 Oct 2017, 13:30

The Aussie dollar was very high when hockey and abbott attacked the carmakers. Now they could be exporting their head off.

I think we are going to miss the economic contribution of the car makers very much indeed!
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 19 Oct 2017, 13:46

HBS Guy wrote:The Aussie dollar was very high when hockey and abbott attacked the carmakers. Now they could be exporting their head off.

I think we are going to miss the economic contribution of the car makers very much indeed!


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Re: Australian economy

Postby Squire » 19 Oct 2017, 14:49

Lefty wrote:Which part of the fact that other car manufacturing nations support the existence of their industry instead of deliberately sabotaging it is mysterious to you?


You can't have a burgeoning export of iron ore, coal, LNG, wheat and beef and a manufacturing industry because these exports will always push up the exchange rate of the A$ making imported cars cheaper or more profitable to the importers while Australian car manufacturer's markets decline because of the cheaper competitors.

Japan and Germany are energy and resource importers and didn't have this problem and were able to focus on their manufacturing.

If it was possible to import luxurious houses, there would not be a housing industry in Australia.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 20 Oct 2017, 06:57

Squire wrote:
Lefty wrote:Which part of the fact that other car manufacturing nations support the existence of their industry instead of deliberately sabotaging it is mysterious to you?


You can't have a burgeoning export of iron ore, coal, LNG, wheat and beef and a manufacturing industry because these exports will always push up the exchange rate of the A$ making imported cars cheaper or more profitable to the importers while Australian car manufacturer's markets decline because of the cheaper competitors.

Japan and Germany are energy and resource importers and didn't have this problem and were able to focus on their manufacturing.

If it was possible to import luxurious houses, there would not be a housing industry in Australia.


You are referring to the phenomenon known as "Dutch disease". Dutch disease is temporary - while obviously bouncing around, the $AUSD has substantially retreated from it's value during the roaring investment boom phase and car making is actually profitable once again, though it doesn't matter since it's gone now. It is not exports of these things themselves that push up the Aussie by any great amount. Rather it is the flood of money pouring in during the investment phase that has this effect to the much larger extent. If you check, you will see how the surge to parity with the $USD and beyond closely tracks the long resource investment boom. Once the investment phase of the latest great mining boom was nearly complete, the $AUSD slid back from it's great heights, despite the fact that export volumes of dirt were thundering to new heights.

However, the wise heads in that great impenetrable bastion of neo-liberal groupthink - the Productivity Commission - appear to have believed that the situation was more or less permanent. The investment boom in mining was to last a half a century or longer, as China boomed endlessly.

As any normal human could have told them, all booms end and this one was no different. But the ideologically obsessed halfwits Abbot and Hockey took the PC's advice as gospel and proceeded to cut the entire industry off at the knees, a blow from which it could not recover.

Every drop of money Australians spend buying cars will now flow straight out of the economy through the external sector, along with jobs, satellite industries, R&D spinoffs- and a century worth of hands-on knowledge and the ability to engage in the production of something that no modern nation can do without.

The "permanently high" currency has now deflated as it was always going to - but in the meantime we have simply tossed away something of great importance in exchange for a short-lived currency spike. Bravo.


"The death of Holden" is an interesting read, chronicling the destruction of the Australian car making industry. One Victorian parts manufacturer recounts in an interveiw the blind, ideological belief in an endless mining investment boom, of how the government agent who came to advise a crisis meeting of parts manufacturers actually expected them to re-tool their operations and switch to making parts for mining machines. When he pointed out that mining uses parts ten times the size of the car parts he manufactured and would thus require going into very large debt to completely re-build the factory from the floor up for such operations, and further that mining is cyclical and booms are followed by lengthy busts while demand for car parts is much more constant, the agent simply kept repeating "Australia is the worlds largest exporter of iron ore" as if the parts industry could simply make the switch.

He puts it simply to the interveiwer: "Hockey's a fuckwit".
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 20 Oct 2017, 12:20

The century old Australian car manufacturing industry takes it's last gasp

A lousy $500m would have saved the industry which was being killed by a temporary forex and wages spike owing to the mining boom, largely driven by the gas sector. Instead, in usual fashion we bet it all on black and today we have literally swapped a car industry that is now quite cost competitive for a vile gas cartel that rips dough out of the pocket of every person, business and government on the east coast. Even as we import more expensive Holdens from Korea and Thailand.

Not only that, we bought $60bn worth of subs we didn’t need to sure-up Chris Pyne’s seat after the car industry collapse.

This is macro management driven full-tilt into a brick wall.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 20 Oct 2017, 13:55

Geordie MEMBER
October 20, 2017 at 12:45 pm
While the reaction seems to be quite small on social media, those that comment are generally pretty bloody angry, but there isn’t the anger that this situation deserves being expressed. Apathy FTW.

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October 20, 2017 at 1:00 pm
There’s just too many people who bought the lie that the car industry was just high paid union guys assembling cars that people didn’t want. Especially ‘classy’ Australians in their Korean SUV or Mexican/Thai built Volkswagen who certainly aren’t bogan because they don’t drive a Commodore.

The huge export success which continued right into the end, the globally relevant design and engineering skills we had, the role auto played in keeping advanced engineering and manufacturing afloat by providing critical mass to firms that service other industries as well… all never really part of the public debate.

We heard about protection costs but never the fact that every auto making country on Earth, including ‘good car’ makers like the Germans, operated with lots of protection of various sorts. I’m afraid Australians are not the smartest cookies around.


Adelaide Economist is sadly correct, we are not the smartest cookies around. We seem to be a special kind of stupid, a blend of apathy and stupidity.

We are well and truly on the road to an economy powered by nothing but financial speculation and private debt, completely hollowed out of most types of practical knowledge and ability.

And there has never been any invisible hand pushing us irresitably in this direction. There is nothing inevitable about this. This is the result of decades of deliberate political and ideological CHOICES, underpinned by neo-liberalism - the most poisonous ideology of our time.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby HBS Guy » 20 Oct 2017, 15:43

Yeah, unfortunately started by Hawke/Keating as economic rationalism, and some of that was needed. Then came the 12 dreadful Howard years and the economy was hollowed out big time.

If we had an NBN then something would be in place to replace auto making. But now we have no NBN and no auto makers.

I don’t think people are apathetic. It is just inevitable after hokey and the mad monk (no relation!) told them to fuck off. It is such a vast catastrophe that nothing can be done. An awful inevitability.

The rage will come tho. The numbness will wear off.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby johnsmith » 20 Oct 2017, 16:36

the govt. cost us the auto industry.

To many free trade agreements that allowed everyone to trade here freely, but didn't return the favour.

Australian Politicians would have to be some of the most stupid incompetent people on the planet.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby HBS Guy » 20 Oct 2017, 16:46

Especially Liberal politicians! A liberal helping of stupidity!
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 20 Oct 2017, 17:10

HBS Guy wrote:Especially Liberal politicians! A liberal helping of stupidity!



Yep, this one is Abbot and Hockey's proud legacy. Fucking libs just keep on getting finding more ways to engage in blatant economic vandalism. The deliberate sabotage of what could and should have been a world-class broadband network, the deliberate destruction of this nations mechanical engineering capacity, allowing a cartel to bleed the country of one of it's own most important natural resources and threaten economic stability in the process.

I despised Howard but the crop of libs that succeeded him are appalling fuckwits on every level.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby johnsmith » 20 Oct 2017, 17:39

Lefty wrote:
Yep, this one is Abbot and Hockey's proud legacy..


I'll never understand why they in such a rush to sign the damn things? The FTA with japan allows Japan to sell all their products here, unhindered, and at the same time restricts what we can sell there. Namely car parts. Given our industry had already announced it would close down, wouldn't it have been better to ensure our car parts manufacturers had access to one of the largest automobile producing countries in the world?
Last edited by johnsmith on 21 Oct 2017, 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby HBS Guy » 20 Oct 2017, 17:48

Fuck knows what the idiots were thinking!
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 20 Oct 2017, 19:12

johnsmith wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Yep, this one is Abbot and Hockey's proud legacy..


I'll never understand why they in such a rush to sign the dam things? The FTA with japan allows Japan to sell all their products here, unhindered, and at the same time restricts what we can sell there. Namely car parts. Given our industry had already announced it would close down, wouldn't it have been better to ensure our car parts manufacturers had access to one of the largest automobile producing countries in the world?


Fuck knows what the idiots were thinking!


I think there is a culture among them that can only be described ideologically-driven insanity. The belief in neo-liberalism is stronger here than in most places - almost a religion. A religion that worships the idea of unfettered markets at it's golden calf.

Like religious faith, it is unshakable and impervious to reality, seeing only what it wants to see. Disasterous outcomes around the world over the past few decades as a result of just letting markets rip unhindered as possible, of privatising former publicly-owned natural monopolies - these appalling realities are simply ignored as they continue to drive us headlong into the abyss.

There is no prosperous long-term future in exterminating all of our true productive capacity and importing nearly everything we require, paying for it with an ever-ballooning private sector debt-to-income ratio. The theory is that when the shit hits the fan, the blow is cushioned by a rapidly depreciating currency making local production more competitive against imports, shoring up local jobs and industry and aiding recovery. So what happens when the shit hits the fan, the currency depreciates sharply......and there is no more local production because we've tossed it all away in an ideological stupor? Too bad for an economy that is over half driven by consumer spending.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby johnsmith » 20 Oct 2017, 19:28

Lefty wrote: A religion that worships the idea of unfettered markets at it's golden calf.


even that they can't get right. :scare
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Squire » 21 Oct 2017, 12:47

Lefty wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Yep, this one is Abbot and Hockey's proud legacy..


I'll never understand why they in such a rush to sign the dam things? The FTA with japan allows Japan to sell all their products here, unhindered, and at the same time restricts what we can sell there. Namely car parts. Given our industry had already announced it would close down, wouldn't it have been better to ensure our car parts manufacturers had access to one of the largest automobile producing countries in the world?


Fuck knows what the idiots were thinking!


I think there is a culture among them that can only be described ideologically-driven insanity. The belief in neo-liberalism is stronger here than in most places - almost a religion. A religion that worships the idea of unfettered markets at it's golden calf.

Like religious faith, it is unshakable and impervious to reality, seeing only what it wants to see. Disasterous outcomes around the world over the past few decades as a result of just letting markets rip unhindered as possible, of privatising former publicly-owned natural monopolies - these appalling realities are simply ignored as they continue to drive us headlong into the abyss.

It takes decades to establish a modern manufacturing industry and all its associated input providers. The ship has sailed. Our destiny is set in iron ore and frozen in gas.
There is no prosperous long-term future in exterminating all of our true productive capacity and importing nearly everything we require, paying for it with an ever-ballooning private sector debt-to-income ratio. The theory is that when the shit hits the fan, the blow is cushioned by a rapidly depreciating currency making local production more competitive against imports, shoring up local jobs and industry and aiding recovery. So what happens when the shit hits the fan, the currency depreciates sharply......and there is no more local production because we've tossed it all away in an ideological stupor? Too bad for an economy that is over half driven by consumer spending.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 21 Oct 2017, 13:30

It takes decades to establish a modern manufacturing industry and all its associated input providers. The ship has sailed. Our destiny is set in iron ore and frozen in gas.


That's the kind of fatalism that has led to the deliberately made ideological choices that have ultimately dropped us where we are.

Iron ore doesn't contribute all that much to our destiny - outside of a once-a-century investment boom, mining is a pitifully small employer of Australians overall. So why would we choose a destiny in things that we know from long experience employ few workers and are cyclical and prone to lengthy busts? It's nice to have something useful there in the ground of our sovereign territory but when it comes to shaping the lives of most Australians it's small potatoes most of the time.

Same with gas. There is no unstoppable force of destiny at play here - allowing this ridiculous exploitative malaise to continue is a pure voluntarily made choice.

To cut the entire automotive industry off at the knees was a voluntarily made choice.

There has never been any invisible hand of the market signing ridiculously one-sided agreements and executive orders to behead entire industries. These were choices made by people obsessed with a failed ideology and the actions taken were by the hands of these people, of their own volition.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Squire » 21 Oct 2017, 13:44

Mining, oil and gas, and agriculture dominate the economy if their commodity prices all peak at the same time. The A$ must rise in such a circumstance which crowds out manufacturing.

This is a never-ending cycle in the Australian economy.

The government can not stop the A$ from rising unless there is a concerted effort to invest the foreign income overseas to balance the foreign exchange flows into and out of Australia.

However, no Australian government has ever done that. On the contrary, the Japanese and Germans have been very good at it and thus either prevent currency rise or slow it to allow their industry to adapt.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 21 Oct 2017, 14:56

You will note that over most of the past 35 years - the period over which this dangerous ideology has held sway - the Australian dollar has averaged in the low 70's against the $USD. It reached parity for the first time during the largest mining investment boom in our history - something no other commoddity boom over this time over this time has ever succeeded in doing. But even the mother of all investment booms must end - this one has now done so and our currency is back toward the mid-70's. Carmaking in Australia is profitable once again since the currency spike was only ever going to be temporary. No matter, the former treasurer
killed it off anyway.

It seems unlikely we will see such a strong rise again for any great length of time, not driven by the factors you name - China's huge surge is over and there is not another China.

You acknowledge the short-term nature of the phenomenon you mention by correctly describing it as cyclical - every economy experiences hiccups and road bumps of one kind or another. This one was unique in both duration and intensity. But it too now is gone - as was always going to be the case.

You are over-blowing it, as though every person who ever catches a cold - which is all of us - is doomed to keel over dead.

Why do you think short-term currency movements based on short-lived commoddity booms means that we cannot have viable industry? Our industry would have weathered the mother of all such cycles and been profitable again today - instead, it was deliberately kneecapped to ensure it's demise.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 21 Oct 2017, 16:25

To underscore this, Australian carmakers were making good money when the dollar was at 80c US. At $1.00 against the $USD, things were tight but they were hanging in with no intention of closure until the fuckwit Hockey did what he did.

Now count the number of times the exchange rate has been over 80 cents in all the years since the float. How long did it spend at or near parity? And where is it now? The commoddity cycle has not had anywhere near the effect you say over the long term - you are observing the recently-finished one and extrapolating that as historically typical. It was FAR from typical in both size and duration. But it too now is finished and we should still have a viable auto industry today but for an act of deliberate economic vandalism.

So you will see why rather than being a flash in a pan, the Australian auto industry existed for so many, many years as a viable, profitable and extremely valuable national asset - while it watched one mining boom after another come and go.

I'm not sure where your allegiences lie, you don't seem to have much faith in trickle-down economics and obviously I agree. I think you have bought the line that we cannot have manufacturing based on the notion that we were going to have a permanently inflated currency, in turn based on the belief of an endlessly booming China.

Do you see the reality that there is no such thing as an endless mining/commoddity boom and no such thing as a permanently inflated currency as a result? That reality is staring us in the face right now - the dollar is back down below 80 cents now. In fact, it began falling sharply once the boom came off the peak around the end of 2014. Even throughout the mother of all mining booms it was mostly below parity.

As a Labor supporter, I despair that so many in the party bought the same line of needing to pander to a never-ending commoddity investment boom and that therefore the demise of our ability to actually make anything that we consume as a first-world nation was a tragic but inevitable event.

There was never anything inevitable about it - we have engaged on a campaign of deliberate self-sabotage and the consequences are only just starting to come home to roost.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 21 Oct 2017, 16:45

Even Hockey himself must have felt like a dunce: when he delivered the ultimatum to carmakers the dollar was at parity - just months later it had slid back down to 90c and kept going all the way to around 70c.

The lesson here cannot be overstated - ALL COMMODDITY BOOMS END. Currency fluctuations are but a temporary feature. Most of our industries can weather them if they are not deliberately sabotaged - which includes dickhead trade ministers falling over themselves to sign ridiculously one-sided free trade agreements.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Lefty » 22 Oct 2017, 08:59

What we should really be asking ourselves is the question that foreigners must ask themselves whenever they look at us - why would any nation that has spent the past 200 years building itself up as a modern country engage in a deliberate campaign to purge itself of the ability to do anything for itself? The natural progression of things is that we start as helpless infants and grow more independent as we get older. Instead, we are moving in reverse, becoming more and more simplified. As modern industries wither, so too our ability to innovate withers. New, practical ideas struggle to take root because the critical mass is no longer there to support them. Invariably, they head overseas - from where we then buy them back, sending yet more growth out of the economy through the external sector.

We keep signing free trade agreements that in no way resemble free trade, which by definition should flow in both directions. Instead, they operate as a one-way valve, allowing the unfettered flow of foreign products in while placing restrictions on the export of ours.

No one can possibly be thick enough to not understand this when they sign up - it's hard to escape the conclusion that our trade officials have been directed to draft and sign up to agreements specifically designed to crush our own local production.

The question is why are we doing this to ourselves, and with such zeal? Why are we deliberately sending ourselves back to the cot, eventually to be totally dependent on others for every last need?


The answer just seems to be that our elite are completely obsessed with an ideology that some decades ago declared that in the near future, all power would lie with global markets. The nation state would inevitably wither away and become a powerless figurehead, unable to do anything to resist unstoppable global forces, unable to control their own people's destinies, except perhaps for some small tinkering around the edges. Despite the market-focus, in some ways this is just a re-hashing of Marx (who actually possesed a very good grasp of the dynamics of capitalism of the day), who declared that the state would ultimately wither away to be replaced by a global commune.

A different perspective but ultimately the same thing - unstoppable natural forces would sweep the world up into a single capitalist marketplace/commune (you choose which one), that this was completely inevitable and that the nation state was powerless to change this outcome or chart it's own destiny.

But both are bollocks. There are no such unstoppable natural forces rendering the nation state powerless - but Australia takes this belief further than most others.

Down at this level, the prols by and large haven't minded - after all, we have deregulated trade and finance to allow a flood of cheap imports and a tsunami of easy and cheap to borrow money to purchase stuff. It has made us feel prosperous. But it has come at a price. It has gutted industry and left our private household sector massively indebted without historical precedent.

So here we are with our consumers debt at a stratospheric high with what little savings they have plunging back toward zero, the interest rates supporting debt expansion at a historic low with very little room left to make debt any cheaper (or to use for it's real purpose, to counter-stabalise in the event of an economic shock!) - perhaps there's not much left to do now but keep exterminating local production.
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Re: Australian economy

Postby Squire » 22 Oct 2017, 19:34

The only manufacturing Australia currently excels at is the manufacture of excuses. Manufacturing currently represents around 7% of GDP whereas in the late 1950s it represented about 30%. The world average is only about 15.3 % dropping from 21.7% in 1995. UK is around 10%. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.IND.MANF.ZS

Australian manufacturers never became a force in the international markets except for Ansell with surgical rubber gloves and Newscorp with media (which is not manufacturing). Ansell was acquired by Dunlop Rubber and expanded internationally. Similarly, Newscorp started as Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation and launched itself into the international market.

The major problem Australian manufacturers currently face is that Asian products are considered superior in quality and are a definitely lower price. Logistics is also a problem where internal road transport, handling, and distribution in Australia is more expensive than the international shipping and logistics of imported products

I don't believe Australia leads the world in the manufacture of boomerangs either.

I remember around 20 years ago when some UK manufacturers were giving their products Japanese sounding names because UK consumers perceived Japanese products were better quality and technology than UK manufactured products.

There is no large scale manufacturing likely in Australia.

http://www.ausinnovation.org/publications/vision-2020/advancing-australia/manufacturing-in-australia-does-it-have-a-future.html

Manufacturing in Australia; does it have a future?

Manufacturing has, from the earliest times, made an important contribution to Australian economic development. By the centenary of British settlement, a thriving manufacturing industry had grown up, producing a range of goods sufficient to supply most domestic needs. Federation established a borderless national market and tariff protection, enabling Australia's small-scale manufacturing sector to embark on a period of growth which would, within a few decades, transform the nation into a fully-fledged industrial state.

The opening of the Newcastle Steelworks in 1915 established the Australian steel industry. The building of the Ordnance Factory at Maribyrnong added an interchangeable part mass production facility in 1924 and, in the same year, Holden Motor Body Builders built a modern automotive body plant at Woodville. In 1936 the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation was established at Fishermen’s Bend. During the war that shortly followed, these substantial investments in industrial capability paid great dividends; Australian manufacturing geared up for national defence, expanding its output and capability at an astonishing rate. In the peace that followed, new industries flourished and the golden era of Australian manufacturing ensued. By the late 1950s manufacturing accounted for 29% of Australian GDP.

By the 1960s, however, Australian manufacturing had begun to stagnate, as growth and productivity faltered. By the 1970s it was in decline and, forty years on, reduced by global economic changes and government policy, manufacturing accounts for less than 10% of Australian GDP, the lowest level since early colonial times...

... The internal causes of Australian decline are several and well known. The most important is that Australia is a high wage country, and has been since the 1820s. The initial causes were an abundance of land, a shortage of labour, the absence of a rentier class, low taxes, gold discoveries and generous British investment. After Federation, high wages were cemented in place by liberal reformers and trade unions. Australian governments were among the first to grant age pensions and other welfare benefits, the costs of which inevitably reposed on the productive sector. Australian manufacturing was rendered permanently uncompetitive against nations whose firms carried lighter burdens.

Another problem for Australian manufacturing was a small and dispersed national market. British colonies were strung around the Australian coast to exclude imperial rivals that might have chanced a settlement on the far side of the world, a policy which gifted Australia with a continent under a single national jurisdiction, but at the price of widely separated population centres. A small national market, fragmented into regions, made the acquisition of scale economies and labour-replacing technologies difficult to achieve.

Without exceptional technical and entrepreneurial talent, or a cultural tradition of producing highly esteemed goods, a nation with high wage and welfare costs and a small domestic market will struggle to make a success of manufacturing...
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Re: Australian economy

Postby HBS Guy » 22 Oct 2017, 20:28

Not helped when we have cut tariffs much more than our trading partners and signed FTAs that severely hurt our manufacturers. Nutcases like YouLiar can pretend selling a million bucks of agricultural product is a win but it is almost meaningless especially if it is unprocessed produce, live export etc.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
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