If we had an NBN

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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 26 Sep 2017, 15:34

Oh if we had an NBN the boost to the economy it would bring!

GIGAWorld to unlock wave of innovation worth at least €250 billion per year in Europe by 2025[My emphasis.]

In-depth report from Arthur D. Little estimates market could be worth at least €1.3 trillion per year globally by 2025
New technologies enabled by GIGAWorld predicted to improve lives, boost economy and revolutionize businesses
Three families of apps will be central to the GIGAWorld: Augmented Discovery, Virtual Telepresence and Automated Living

“will depend on the room its innovation cycle will be given to function, to allow new innovative applications and devices to be developed, networks to be upgraded to GIGANetworks and new monetization models to be adopted.”

The report, commissioned by Liberty Global, offers a tantalising glimpse into the future, outlining the exciting possibilities that will arise with the emergence of a GIGAWorld, including robot-assisted remote tele-surgery, 3D holographic projections of sports events and skyscraper windows maintained by drone-robots.

However, the research notes that the success of the GIGAWorld “will depend on the room its innovation cycle will be given to function, to allow new innovative applications and devices to be developed, networks to be upgraded to GIGANetworks and new monetization models to be adopted.” A key factor will be the “predictability and clarity of the public policy framework to stimulate all actors to invest in the GIGAWorld and to experiment with new business models.”

ADL estimates that, under the right circumstances, the GIGAWorld innovation cycle will unlock a market of at least €250 billion and up to €660 billion per year by 2025 in Europe. At the global level, the value is expected to be €1.3-3.5 trillion per year.


http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170920005035/en/GIGAWorld-unlock-wave-innovation-worth-%E2%82%AC250-billion

“Virtual Telepresence” would allow working from home for lots of office workers, saving petrol, road building/maintenance etc, allow families to move out the crime ridden, poorly serviced outer suburbs to country towns.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Sep 2017, 14:50

Hmmmm

Launtel says it is advancing plans to make Tassie the nation’s “first Gigabit state” and has chosen Priceline Glenorchy for the VIP launch ceremony to show that gigabit speeds are a productive addition to the information technology utilised by any business in Tasmania.

“Today’s event is a major step in a statewide project that began earlier this year when Launceston became Australia’s first Gigabit city. Today we will be adding Hobart as Australia’s first capital city to boast gigabit NBN internet,” said Michael Costigan, Launtel CEO. “After that, we can look forward to the opportunity to upgrade other areas of Tasmania such as Burnie and Devonport on to the pure fibre gigabit network.”

“Tasmania has long relied on four mainstays of economic growth: forestry, mining, agriculture and tourism. The introduction of gigabit internet adds a new economic driver that offers high wage employment opportunities and environmentally friendly growth. It’s an industry that firmly places Tasmania at the forefront of the high tech industry in Australia, and makes it the logical business location for Australian businesses wishing to interact on equal terms with other high speed economies around the world.”


https://www.itwire.com/telecoms-and-nbn/80132-launtel-launches-first-hobart-gigabit-internet.html

So they must have enough takers for their 1Gbps service in Launceston at a high enough revenue to be able to expand.

Would it not be lovely if a new capability existed in all Australia for “high wage employment opportunities and environmentally friendly growth.” I wonder how we could do this.

SA not far behind but they need to be more ambitious with their GigCity program.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby greggerypeccary » 28 Sep 2017, 15:05

It's already nice and fast in Hobart.

I remember when I first experienced the NBN in Tassie (and Perth) - it was amazing.

Now I'm used to it, and sometimes get frustrated waiting just 2 seconds for Netflix to load.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Sep 2017, 15:07

ahahahaha!

Yup, and I will have FTTP on my block.

Get rid of the CVC charge and FTTP can take off! 250:250 will be a nice speed! (I could offset the cost by hosting this board myself!)
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Sep 2017, 15:22

Article goes on:
According to Costigan, for various political, economic and logistical reasons, Tasmania is likely to remain the only state in Australia with widely available gigabit connection for several years or more.

“Tasmania must seize this golden opportunity to claim what is effectively Australia's version of Silicon Valley and become the nation’s point of contact for the other gigabit economies around the world.”

Costigan claims the gigabit Internet, combined with other high tech developments (such as the LoRa IoT network and various Smart City initiatives around the world), heralds the dawn of a new era in Tasmania, “an era of enhanced connectedness, global interaction and an opportunity for Tasmania to become the leading technology state in Australia”.


Tas Lib govt are idiots if they don’t run fibre to wherever in Tassie does not already have it. It does not have to repay itself directly: by boosting growth it will boost tax receipts. A mistake Conroy made and Gillard probably had to live with to keep the Indies on side and that turdfull could have corrected. I think Tassie has lots of FTTH but not to the West Coast—tourism hubs!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 28 Sep 2017, 23:17

From Whirlpool:

sulrich writes...
a few marginal seat areas didn’t get fttp contracts cancelled

There was no Labor carryover contract on Tuxedo Jct in the Gold Coast, the FTTP in this very precious patch was entirely the work of NBN under the direction of LNP and was implemented about June 2015. The local member's office (Bucholz) incorrectly stated that a developer carried the cost (the brownfield was about 10yrs old and fully developed) due to an adjacent development however NBN later fessed up to funding using your money. They said it complied with the plan of using the lowest cost technology!

http://whrl.pl/ReEABb


https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2665003&p=38#r749

Pork did not end with Howard’s double order of the boot.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 29 Sep 2017, 17:24

The NBN inquiry demands drastic refocus of broadband project
But government unlikely to agree.

A joint federal inquiry into the NBN wants a drastic overhaul of the project, including an independent audit, better information, and a “minimum” of fibre-to-the-curb (FTTC) in the rest of the fixed-line footprint.

The year-long inquiry, which is chaired by government MP Sussan Ley, quietly published its 210-page opus in the shadows of the upcoming Labour Day long weekend. (pdf)

The findings of the inquiry paint an incredibly damaging picture of the national broadband network.

However, it was unclear how many – if any – of the 23 detailed recommendations would ever be put into practice.

All five Liberal members of the inquiry – including the chair – issued a dissenting report, defending the government’s rollout strategy and NBN Co’s progress in executing it


https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-inquiry-demands-drastic-refocus-of-broadband-project-474418

The Libs will have spent $60Bn (at least) building what is bloody obviously a temporary network. Better Economic Managers™ ny rose red arse! The opportunity cost must be HUGE!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Oct 2017, 08:02

The Joint Standing Committee on the NBN released their report with 23 recommendations.

Analysis:
http://eftm.com.au/2017/09/eftm-analysis-parliamentary-committee-on-nbn-makes-23-recommendations-43649

Rs 1-3 dismissed then
Recommendation 4
The committee recommends the Government ensure by appropriate regulation that end users are informed of, or can easily access and are directed to, clear information about the maximum attainable layer 2 speed of their NBN infrastructure/service on a per premise basis.

EFTM Analysis: Bloody Great idea. This information should be published within the database of premises, so we can search any address and see the speeds possible. That means when buying a home people can see that, but more importantly residents can challenge the speeds they are getting with their ISP.

Additionally, it would mean we’d have a very clear snapshot of the “achievable” average, which would surprise most people I’m guessing.


Recommendation 5 re installation procedure gets a lukewarm response. However, plenty of horror stories of botched installations, missed appointments etc so something needed.


Recommendation 6

The committee recommends that nbn review and provide advice to the committee on how it:

takes into consideration the added complexity and time requirements of installations to Service Class 0 and Service Class 10 premises, or equivalent areas, when calculating its progress towards completion goals; and
prioritises connections to areas that currently have no access to internet.

EFTM Analysis: For those affected, this is a hot issue, and I think it would be good for the NBN to provide this information. The problem is It’s likely a case by case problem, not a blanket policy issue. With regard to those without internet, I can’t imagine that’s a lot of premises that aren’t already being covered by the SkyMuster satellite.


There are a lot of premises in areas declared RFS that “need more work” and to connect these premises at the end of the rollout will take a lot of money.


Recommendation 7
The committee recommends that the Australian Government require nbn to identify and disclose all areas that are currently designated to be served by a satellite connection that previously were set to receive the NBN by FTTN or fixed wireless, and explain why the change has occurred.

EFTM Analysis: I see the need here, if I lived in one of those homes, I’d be pretty concerned if not angry. People deserve to know, but I doubt they’ll like the answer – because it’s going to come down to cost folks. Depends on how many homes it is. If it’s 100,000 or more, or even 50,000 then it’s a conversation that needs to be had.


This is a nasty shortcut taken because the MTM rubbish was taking much longer and costing much more than the idiot Libs had figured plus lots more remediation (replacement) of copper etc. But the satellite service, Skymuster, was supposed to be for really remote residents inland, not people in sight of the CBD of a capital city! More money needed to fix this particular pocket of the rotting corpse that is the MTM.

You can read the rest of the recommendations and analysis.

All this is putting lipstick on a pig, that is all. So much that is wrong that it may be easier (especially in a years time after the election) to finish the rollout and then plan fixes.

The fixed wireless service is handicapped by lack of proper backhaul: NBN/the Libs didn’t want to instal a cm of fibre if they didn’t have to. So run out decent backhaul. Still on the wireless, I was communicating (can’t remember where, Twitter probably) with someone on FW. He said the original installation wasn’t much good because trees in the line of sight. I suggested he put the antenna much higher—apparently such huge and pointless opposition from NBN Co to doing that! Fixed wireless really has limitations in the country—trees and hills etc.

The copper landlines—wow, only an idiot would try to run FTTN over it. turdfull talked of the German experience but:

1. The German telco that ran out FTTN owned the copper. Only a blithering idiot, a raving lunatic, would do as the idiot Libs did and BUY a decrepit, past end of life, copper network to run FTTN over. That or some agenda. . .

2. The German copper was not as decrepit as Telstra had let their copper get.

3. The German copper was twice (≥ 0.6mm diameter) as thick as the Telstra copper (.3 and .42mm diameter.) This makes the Telstra lines high impedance and unsuitable for “superfast” broadband (or broadband, defined as 25mbps down, at all!)

We MUST have a royal commission into this shambles!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 04 Oct 2017, 20:31

From Whirlpool re Bloomberg’s latest re the sad old NBN

Slower internet than Kenya, Russia and Hungary. Plagued by delays and spiralling costs, nation has ended up with worst possible solution.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-03/digital-doom-threatens-australia-where-internet-speeds-lag-kenya


And a hot spring and a hot summer coming where ubiquitous FTTH and smart meters could really have helped the struggling power generation/transmission system.

One word for the Libs turning the NBN into the mess it is now: treason!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 07 Oct 2017, 07:18

If we had an NBN our internet wouldn’t die every evening:

New figures last week from the Australian Bureau of Statistics demonstrated our growing obsession with binge watching, revealing Australians download one million terabytes of data between March and June this year.

Total downloads in Australia between June 2016 and June 2017 grew by a massive 43 per cent to just shy of three million terabytes.

This all comes as the total number of internet users grew by only 2.1 per cent, suggesting demand will continue to surge regardless of population growth.

According to a Nielsen study from earlier this year the number of Netflix users in Australia grew by 48 per cent between December 2015 and December 2016, while a Roy Morgan report released in 2015 showed Netflix’s subscriber audience had reached 5.75 million.


http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2017/10/06/australia-peak-hour-internet-collapse-netflix/

The Libs probably thought the old copper could just sort of carry the load for a while, hadn’t reckoned on streaming services entering. Nearly 6m homes have Netflix, some others might have one of the other services or use services like the ABC iView, SBS’ On Demand, Freeview etc. The old, corroded, much patched up copper, even if it was brand new, is just too thin, too high an impedance, to carry real broadband.

All this forgets about UPloads. FTTN has pathetic upload capability. Need upload for video calls (as seen in some of the stupidads, even holograms) and then there are cloud backups that even small business/home business needs to ensure their survival if their computer gets nicked or the place burns down. 9/11 really showed the need for this: those businesses without off site backups failed, never recovered.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 11 Oct 2017, 07:52

More potential revenue lost by NBN Co. What a fucking joke this Lib crap MTM is!

In this case, small ISPs are providing superior broadband services via wireless. They can offer service level agreements (SLAs) and so the speed they advertise is the speed their subscribers receive. NBN can’t offer anything like it.

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/small-rural-telcos-surge-as-nbn-misses-mark-475083
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 10:26

NBN Co has refused to cut CVC costs ensuring the MTM debacle will continue hampering the nation. NBN Co wants to sell business packages—no hope in hell any other than the smallest business will accept one, private fibre providers will have a field day, bleeding NBN Co of the revenue needed.

If CVC cost was abolished, say AVC increased to compensate the full horror that is copper based internet will be revealed. I (and Whirlpool) predicted only the most minor trimming of CVC cost would happen. Prepare for horror stories, massive misinformation campaigns etc revealed once Labor win the next election.

NBN Co will never make a profit and the cost to the nation as a whole: astronomical. Talking opportunity cost here, what we lost by turning to crappy, worn out, too thin Telstra copper instead of being a leader, with true superfast broadband providing the high wage jobs we need.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 10:47

The costs to roll out the load of junk are not reliable and understate the true cost by a long shot! What we are not being told by NBN Co that the Ready for Service (RFS) numbers include a huge number of properties that need “further work.”

That is, all the hard to reach properties, HFC (cable) properties without a leadin, FTTN places where the copper just doesn’t work even for voice, properties on micronodes that NBN Co hasn’t figured out how to make work and so on will need to be tackled after the main rollout is complete. So a huge wad of expenses after the main rollout is complete.

Too many greenfields have had copper rolled out to them, more work to be duplicated with fibre. Just fucking unbelievable what you come across when you read a bit deeper into the MTM than the MSM—and even the MSM is publishing more and more examples of failure because it is a story of failure on a national scale! People on properties in sight of CBDs being put on satellite, a very limited and expensive medium meant solely for people in really remote places will need to be wired up with fibre,

I read on Whirlpool that the very high frequency (that is how you pack more info into the same line, decrease the wavelength carrying the signal and so increase the frequency) signals will degrade the copper even more. Dunno, it is what some say that should know. Not saying I agree or not, I just do not have the knowledge to judge, just offer it as another viewpoint. Hard matters, the copper can’t keep going that much longer.

Fibre to the Distribution point (FTTDp or FTTC (fibre to the Curb) in NBN Co speak, unfortunate because FTTC, Fibre to the Cabinet, is what the Brits call their (also unsuccessful) FTTN technology) probably will not be rolled out, not widely because reverse powering it from subscribers’ premises is full of problems, legal and technical.

But all this copper crap (HFC and FTTN) is going to have to be ditched and fibre rolled out including to very difficult properties. Really should have done it once, done it with fibre.

A fucking mess that should have been avoided. At least the Libs are wearing it: idiots thought they could just get away with it but then Netflix reached out shores and the amount of data being sent through our inadequate networks is killing the case for the MTM. SOME morons, like juliar, blame Labor for this mess :huh :WTF

Nope, the MTM is just one reason the Libs will go down in a screaming mess at the next election, deservedly so.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 12:40

Is anybody surprised?

Poor broadband connections are hindering the growth of Australia’s small businesses, according to a new report which reveals that many SMBs have difficulty accessing fast, reliable and affordable Internet connections.
New data from accounting software company Xero found that Internet access is difficult for a third of Aussie SMBs.

Xero says that the national broadband network rollout began in 2010, yet many of Australia’s small businesses are still paying for poor connectivity today, with:

Around half of small businesses (48%) struggling to reach and bring in new customers as a result of their poor phone or Internet connections;

Seven in ten small businesses (70%) saying poor connectivity is hindering their efficiency and productivity; and

Nearly two-thirds (62%) believing the quality of their customer service is affected by poor phone and Internet connection.

The survey of more than 1000 small business owners across Australia looked at how phone and Internet connectivity affects business productivity, hiring, and growth, and also found that over one in three small businesses headquartered in Western Australian faced connectivity woes (36%), while around a quarter (26%) of New South Wales businesses had connectivity issues.


https://www.itwire.com/telecoms-and-nbn/80326-smbs-held-back-by-poor,-unreliable-internet-connections-survey.html

What is this costing the SMB sector? Much more than the cost of the most elaborate, least efficient FTTH rollout! Since FTTN is not saving any money it is all cost, all loss this idiotic copper internet the loony libs foisted on us! Fucking traitors!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 12:43

From the above article “. . .regional businesses are particularly at risk when it comes to a secure and fast internet connection.” this means agricultural exporters cannot properly track their produce beyond the farm gate. This, as the minutes of the Estimates Committee on the NBN showed, means wineries, fruit processors etc in the Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area and others cannot properly track their exported product, cannot get good, current market and price data and so on.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby davo » 12 Oct 2017, 20:55

The NBN rollout is finished here and as luck would have it I am 500 fucking metres from the node :grn
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 21:08

You lucky thing!

pinkeye who posts here (Emma from OzPol) is 2Km from the node. By unmercifully hassling the technicians things got adjusted and she has reasonably reliable if slow internet. It is a crime she was put on FTTN!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby davo » 12 Oct 2017, 21:12

Yeah i remember reading her clusterfuck story i can see why now what a fucking pathetic joke.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 12 Oct 2017, 21:32

She should have been on fibre, just the bastards don’t want to roll out fibre because it shows how crap the copper is! NBN Co not cutting the CVC charge means the net dies every night as the streaming of movies starts.

I have wireless internet, not too flash bit reliable and consistent.

RWNJs have been saying 5G will be better than fibre. They are going to be bloody disappointed! Also, G5 (and the NBN wireless towers) need fibre back to the POI and there is no fucking fibre to the POI! Wireless will never be better than fibre, not unless a totally different spectrum to the electromagnetic is discovered.

As I knew, G5 cannot do what the present frequencies do, “bend around corners” so it has to be line of sight. So not mobile except as an antenna on a car.
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Oct 2017, 10:21

Tonight 4Corners will air a program on the NBN. I strongly advise all watch this, tonight or tomorrows replay (think it is tomorrow on channel 21 or 24) or watch it on iView.

As a curtain raiser we have this extraordinary admission by Chief Liar of NBN aka CEO of NBN Co:

In a sensational interview with Fairfax Media pre-empting a damaging 4Corners investigation to be aired on Monday night, Morrow effectively laid out an ultimatum to the government: ditch the idea of making a return on taxpayers’ investment, or face more politically unpalatable options.

The NBN model has always been predicated on it generating an internal rate of return (IRR) on the $29.5 billion taxpayer investment in the project.

Taxpayers have also “loaned” NBN Co up to $19.5 billion more to complete the build. One of the loan’s conditions is that NBN Co must get into a position to be able to refinance it.

But Morrow’s comments overnight raise significant doubts about the project’s economics.

He admitted the company’s plans to raise average revenue per user (ARPU) from $43 to $52 a month by the end of the build might not “come together”.


https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-ceo-casts-doubt-on-ability-to-turn-profit-475937

Well, of course Gimpco cannot make a profit!

1. The copper is too corroded and too thin for high speed broadband: it struggles to support 25:5 and cannot reach 12:1 in peak hours! Telcos are selling 5 mbps plans now they have to disclose real speeds! I don’t care how fucking good you are, 5mbps is not going to give you huge revenue!

2. The copper can’t even show how truly crap it is because of the CVC charges. CVC—Connectivity Virtual Circuit is a charge levied on RSPs for every 1mbps they buy. It is currently at $17/1mbps, may have been reduced slightly from that. So when you buy a 25mbps service (will forget uploads for now) your RSP does not buy 25megabits of CVC! No sirree, you would be paying hundreds of dollars a month if they did. So when everybody hits the web to browse, game or stream video your bandwidth drops to a very low figure, 2-3mbps is not unheard of. (ADSL does not have this congestion factor hence is often better than the same NBN plan.)

What needs to happen is for the CVC charge to be scrapped and the AVC (Access Virtual Circuit) increased. Then all plans could be made 100:40 with the limitation being the copper which is why the Libs will never do that but I hope Labor will. Nothing would show how inadequate the copper is, leading to a demand for FTTH. Instead of the 5:1 or 12:1 being a phone–only connection mainly for elderly people give them a simple to use mobile phone keeping the same number (can be done.)

3. Another bottleneck is the nodes themselves: there simply is not enough fibre going into each cabinet. ONE 1Gbps fibre serves 192 or 352 copper lines. Do the math, 1Gbps = 1000mbps and 1000/192 ≈ 5mbps and your peak hour speed will not get better than that what with the huge inroads Netflix has made. This is a particularly stupid decision the idiotic Libs made, FTTN could have had a more advanced card that could accept eight 1Gbps fibres. 30,000 nodes (not nearly enough BTW) x $500 ≈ $15m. STUPID!

Yeah, cripple the fucking network in all the ways possible then whinge that people take out the low speed plans meaning Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) stays stuck at a far too low level.

Even FTTH is hit with congestion due to the CVC charge. To be brutally honest, CVC was an idea of Conroy. BUT with ubiquitous FTTH the CVC charge would be rapidly dropped as revenue would surge. Still would IF CVC was scrapped or halved etc.

I hate conspiracy theories and never pay them any attention but the systematic way the network had been sabotaged cannot be just due to stupidity: an agenda is at work. Protecting Merde-och Foxtel could be it. Don’t know but in all ways we have the worst network around, even the fibre bits!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Oct 2017, 10:36

There was also the idiotic ACCC decision to force 121 Points of Interconnect instead of the 14 POIs (1 in each capital city and a backup POI with a few small POIs in regional areas. Smaller telcos could not afford to run backhaul to 121POIs, they have to rent from Telstra and Optus and one or two others. Less economic.

Bipartisan agreement should be able to reverse this. Just too many congestion points in the NBN as it is now.

Need to spend another $20Bn. Remove the CVC and people will see how crap the copper is. Meantime, those on FTTH can order 1Gbps services—it costs no more to send a 1mbps service than a 1Gbps service once CVC is gone! THAT will generate the backlash and FTTH will be rolled out with no real opposition and the Libs will have to own the mistake that FTTN is!
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Re: If we had an NBN

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Oct 2017, 11:48

Peter Martin, a complete dickhead when it comes to the NBN:

It cost an average of $4400 to connect premises purely by fibre and only $2300 using the multi-technology mix.


http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/nbn-co-chief-bill-morrow-says-under-labor-connections-cost-it-up-to-40000-20171022-gz5s33.html

That is quoting the Liar in Chief aka CEO of Gimpco. It is BULLSHIT!

It starts by adding in $700 worth of OPEX (OPerational EXpenditure) to $3700 CAPEX (CAPital EXpenditure) then it uses the same CPP (Cost Per Premises) that applied in 2013. This is wrong because:

1. Project Fox, new technologies used in the Melton, Vic FTTH rollout showed that cost and time to roll out FTTH were roughly halved. This has been hidden by Gimpco, Labor needs to shout it from the rooftops!

2. All FTTH rollouts, Chorus in NZ, Verizon in the US etc, gather pace and reduce in cost as they go on

So $4400 CPP for FTTH is ridiculous.

The Chief Liar also crapped on about some VERY expensive places to connect. So what, others are really cheap and some will be expensive to connect with FTTN or HFC. CPP is an AVERAGE!

Not only that, FTTH will make a return to the government and VERY few infrastructure programs do that! It will also make a HUGE return to the economy, now we are doubly handicapped, no motor makers and no NBN.
Abbott & Co are going to cause the mother and father of all recessions—be prepared!
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