The Me Too Campaign

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The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 05:54

Alright, i've done some major thinking about this ... i hope one or two of you will indulge me enough to read this.

Anyone miss what Germaine had to say? Here it is:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/23/germaine-greer-criticises-whingeing-metoo-movement

But the crux of her argument, an argument put extremely crudely, is that she expects better of women than to allow such shenanigans to occur in the first place. That she idealises a world in which women need only say 'no' and that 'no' would suffice.

Germaine, as much as i admire her on many levels, is once again arrogantly victim to her own realisations. Insofar as she expects the standards she has achieved through clever and educated analysis to be naturally the applied standard.

It is not.

Firstly, let me say that Germaine is a sexual liberationist. This is the barrow she has always pushed. Feminism was a conduit for that ... and she exemplifies much of what feminism is all about ... but my, does she patronise. The antithesis of feminism. And she falls very short of speaking for the average woman. Whilst i tend to agree with her on a great many things (the me too campaign being a strong exception), i have had the tremendous advantage of being widely educated in a number of rather extensive ways. This advantage is not typical and most certainly not to be expected. I may even put forth that i have taken the time, through teaching and humility to think deeply. Sometimes i think Germaine stops at reactive thought and fails to push through to what can be termed in no better way than holistic awareness.

If i may digress and cite the example of her hanging shit on Gillard's arse. I know she was making her own statement about the trivialities of such things but the result was otherwise. In my opinion, it merely played into the discrimination of women who do not conform to set standards and as a result, would have caused many women to feel bad .... as opposed to good. And seriously, why the fuck are we talking about Julia Gillard's arse in the first place. Enough already ... dissecting women. I thought we won this one in the '90s ... seems now we are just doing it to men too and calling that equality. Go figure.

My personal brand of feminism is about people feeling good. Men and women. I fight stereotypes. I know the difference between what i'm conditioned to find attractive and what actually turns me on. And most people don't. And make themselves and other people miserable about it in countless ways expressing it. Toxic masculinity has roots here. As does toxic femininity.

Seems odd to me.

Yet, unlike Germaine, i don/t expect that thought to have occurred to everyone ... so i cut people some slack and do my best to make as many people as i can feel good ... and get my own end away without recrimination.

But back to what she said: from women not saying no firmly enough in a way that effected result constituting consent to her minimisation of the accounts coming into the light being nothing more than quid pro quo ... to, even more dangerously, describing victims as "whingers" and claiming that this is some kind of witch hunt on healthy sexuality ....

Firsty, may i say that it's not just 'fight or flight'. It's 'fight, flight or freeze'. It's amazing what you'll just stand there for ... go through instructions under the thrall of even ... when you hit freeze. Dear Germaine, a great many women freeze. Children do it all the time. So do men. May i also add that fight and flight are often not options in any real sense anyway. But let's talk about 'fight'. How many women are conditioned to fight back? How many of us have been taught not to? For a great many reasons. Psychologically, there is abundant evidence that speaks of factors involving a woman's disinclination to fight back. And children? How many men when faced with an assailant considerably stronger than them will adopt not to fight?

..and strength is but one factor. I would have like that Germaine, with the stimuli of all of her wide and varied influences had arrived at a few explanatory conclusions along the way. Perhaps she has? And merely dismissed them because she herself has outgrown them?

I had this conversation with an old friend on the weekend. She was so optimistic. I was left with the same impression after watching the news coverage of the SAG awards. All of these women, all over the place, feeling empowered; screaming 'me too' as we bare our chests in defiance.

I'm jaded though. I thought these battles were already won. There's been no change in me throught all of this. I was already there.

And now i await the backlash ... already evidenced on Ozpol in spades ... and even in Aussie's "Who's to blame" thread. And Germaine, treacherously.

Maybe it's just all about the pendulum. Maybe it'll swing farther this time. Maybe a few more people will switch on to what is cool or not to express about your desires to another person who isn't all the way in it with you. Maybe society will stop normalising the objectification and evaluation of worth of women.

I'm unconvinced though. I've seen the pendulum swing back ... hard. So hard that feminism, a truly egalitarian, humanist and ethical school of thought has become something sinister and threatening. Reviled by both men and women. Women go to great lengths to distance themselves from the ideology. Breaks my heart.

One hell of a backlash. I'm expecting the one coming from me too to be a doozy. Not to mention the opportunists who latch onto the momentum.

... and nobody will believe victims anymore.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 05:58

And don't get me started on those entitled bloody French women.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2018, 07:58

Acknowledging to the Sydney Morning Herald that “what makes it different is when the man has economic power, as Harvey Weinstein has”, Greer said that “if you spread your legs because he said ‘be nice to me and I’ll give you a job in a movie’ then I’m afraid that’s tantamount to consent, and it’s too late now to start whingeing about that”.

Greer also commented on Allen’s alleged sexual abuse of his daughter Dylan Farrow when she was seven, in 1992, saying: “It was 20 years ago, so you want him to stop making movies now? It might be a good idea because he’s probably no good any more.”


What is so different between economic and muscle power? It is power!
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 09:24

Well. i'm beyond disappointied. Thank you Monk for at least conde3scending to post on the topic ... but a hearty 'fuck you' to the reat of you.

I can see this topic has been read.

I wonder ... would you be more supportive of my opinions were i a Muslim? Brown skinned?

Seems the last bastion of human dignity represented on Ozpol and even here is the voice of the woman. And left, on Ozpol, to the raving loonies from the psycho squad

Is there something about a woman's perspective that makes you all uncomfortable?

I suppose i'll wait for Pinkeye for some commentary on what i've had to say .... something i've put tremendous amounts of thought into and hoped would be received with considered thought.

Man, was i wrong.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2018, 09:32

It is a huge slab of information, takes time to read, to understand and to digest.

Some of what Germain says these days is just for publicity I guess: better to be talked about than not talked about.

I will get back to this.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby johnsmith » 25 Jan 2018, 09:35

mothra wrote: but a hearty 'fuck you' to the reat of you.


ahh calm your tits woman :giggle :giggle

I had a quick read earlier but don't have time to form a proper reply yet. I don't have time now either. I could do a one liner but I don't think that's what you want.

Go have a coffee, clean the house, prepare dinner for your hubby and I'll get back to you later. :c
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 10:05

Oh i see. A message from a woman about a woman's issue takes time to process. You poor lads have to think about it before you can even make the most rudimentary of comments. It's not a fuckiong thesis. It's a post ... that if any of you had any balls, you'd cpoy and paste to Ozpol with my sincere well wishes. Not important to you though, is it.

Not so a message about ocean temperature rising ... or Muslims ... or who said what on Ozpol. That's all easily digested in a viewing.

What is it about the way women are currently appearing on the world stage that gives you pause? Was it something i said?

Doubt it. You didn't even fucking read it. Or you'll "read it later".

Did i say fuck you yet? If not, fuck you.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2018, 10:07

I am a physical scientist with a mere introduction to psych.

It is a huge slab of a post and to do it justice requires proper reading and some time thinking before replying.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 10:14

HBS Guy wrote:I am a physical scientist with a mere introduction to psych.

It is a huge slab of a post and to do it justice requires proper reading and some time thinking before replying.




Still going then, are you?

Or you're not particularly interested in starting?

Is there a first prize for guessing the correct answer? Wonder what it is.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 10:24

Okay, i'd stormed off in a huff but i just really wanna say:

Is this news to you people? Have you not been paying attention? Did you not already have thoughts on this issue?

Why the fuck were none of you ready to go with thoughts and opinions? Have i said something revolutionary? Do you need to consult an oracle of some kind?

Not buying it. You all deserve your "fuck you".
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2018, 11:03

Ima digesting it.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 11:26

What the hell are you people digesting? What are you thinking about?

Have you not noticed that this is a topical issue?

I mean, shane on you for it even needing to be a topical issue before you thought about it ...

But for christ's sakes ... this is all over the media. Here is a woman (me) translating it for you idiots and infusing theory behind it ....

And not a one of you had even had a thought about it.51% of the population and not a single preconceived idea. You all need to "digest" what i had to say.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 11:43

I must be speaking in some foreign language. Takes time to translate into man-speak.

All my fault, i expert. Thinking you lot might have an opinion on the single largest thing effecting women in western countries as we speak.

Just look away. We'll let you know when we flash our tits. You can join in then.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2018, 11:59

Gawd! The length of it is off putting in itself. If you want a reasoned response, allow your readers an opportunity (to take at their leisure and not at your expectations) to read and digest it.

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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 12:02

Aussie wrote:Gawd! The length of it is off putting in itself. If you want a reasoned response, allow your readers an opportunity (to take at their leisure and not at your expectations) to read and digest it.

:up



Digest what? Foreign concepts?

Seems so.

Why would you waste you time thinking about what women think and feel? Pesky that it's topical, yeah? I feel you.

After all, "Who's really to blame?" .... right?
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 12:05

And rthe length of it is my considered thought.

Pity it's too much to ask of my friends to read my thoughts. My topical thoughts that may in fact be illuminating. How very dare i?

Shall we talk about Cods now?
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 12:14

I wonder ....were i a Muslim or a brown skinned person, would my commentary on topical media groundswells be considered too lengthy?

Would i earn a nasty little mouse for my audacity?
Last edited by mothra on 25 Jan 2018, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 12:44

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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby Aussie » 25 Jan 2018, 13:06

mothra wrote:And rthe length of it is my considered thought.

Pity it's too much to ask of my friends to read my thoughts. My topical thoughts that may in fact be illuminating. How very dare i?

Shall we talk about Cods now?


I am going to read them......later! What's the urgency?
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby johnsmith » 25 Jan 2018, 13:12

PMS?










(I'm gonna pay for that one)
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 13:31

Aussie wrote:
mothra wrote:And rthe length of it is my considered thought.

Pity it's too much to ask of my friends to read my thoughts. My topical thoughts that may in fact be illuminating. How very dare i?

Shall we talk about Cods now?


I am going to read them......later! What's the urgency?


Ahh. later. Otherwise known as never. Bit challenging eh?

Still, you felt the need to stick your oar in the water.

Says something, don't you think?

I bet the farm that i never hear any discussion of my OP. Not from you, Monk or John. To your credit, the only 3 man enough to show your faces in this thread.

But what have you done with it? I wonder, how would any of you respond to a Muslim baring their soul and making observations about the current state of play? Would you tell them it's too long?

That, after telling them to get fucked, you'll read it when you deign to get around to it?

I'm left wondering how long it takes you people to read a small amount of text. Seems to be a challenge for you. Is it text on all subject matter? I've just noticed some inconsistencies, is all.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 13:34

johnsmith wrote:PMS?



Is that what you claim every time your wife hits it over your head?

I mean, you know that is about the single most dismissive and offensive thing you can say to a woman trying to make a point, yes?

Was the content of my OP over your head? Or do you simply not care about the content?
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 13:56

All these hours later and still no-one has managed to read the OP.

Did i ask you men folk to think about pesky women's business? So sorry. Perhaps you'd like to insult me some more for daring?

At least you validated me with your denials of considering my point of view. Other men who come here didn't even stoop so low.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby mothra » 25 Jan 2018, 13:56

Oh ... and #me too.
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Re: The Me Too Campaign

Postby HBS Guy » 25 Jan 2018, 14:41

But the crux of her argument, an argument put extremely crudely, is that she expects better of women than to allow such shenanigans to occur in the first place. That she idealises a world in which women need only say 'no' and that 'no' would suffice.


Not while there are such discrepancies of power.

Germain hung shit on Gillard’s arse for self-publicity reasons IMHO. I was watching QandA where she said it. I thought a little bit of solidarity would have been nice but that would not have let Germaine generate such publicity. Showing she was “growing old disgracefully” was one motivation for that I saw put forward..

I'm jaded though. I thought these battles were already won. There's been no change in me throught all of this. I was already there.

And now i await the backlash ... already evidenced on Ozpol in spades ... and even in Aussie's "Who's to blame" thread. And Germaine, treacherously.


Forget OzPol, all the good posters have left, pretty much, and morons predominate.

As to battles won. That is an event in one time, not a permanent state in these matters. But things are not as they were in the 1950s, they have improved.

And things will keep improving. I doubt Germain is all that relevant to that.
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