Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

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Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 19:28

Link.

What the fuck did that woman anticipate unless it was the attention of grubs?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 19:35

She expected to be able to be inside her body as she wished to adorn it without other people's wills becoming more important than her right to her own sovereignty.

He had no right to touch her.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 19:45

mothra wrote:She expected to be able to be inside her body as she wished to adorn it without other people's wills becoming more important than her right to her own sovereignty.

He had no right to touch her.


What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 19:53

Aussie wrote:
mothra wrote:She expected to be able to be inside her body as she wished to adorn it without other people's wills becoming more important than her right to her own sovereignty.

He had no right to touch her.


What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?



You didn't address the point.

Why is her right to wear her own body as she chooses compromised by the free will of another to impose that will upon her?

You are aware where this argument leads, yes? It falls down on itself.

So ... to the point. The point is that nobody has the right to touch another person or use their physicality to make another person uncomfortable. Nor is okay, ever, to grab a woman's breasts. Irrespective of how she chooses to adorn them.

That would be the bottom line, yes?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby HBS Guy » 02 Jan 2018, 19:54

Yup.

Unfortunately, the world is full of grubs.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 19:58

mothra wrote:
Aussie wrote:
mothra wrote:She expected to be able to be inside her body as she wished to adorn it without other people's wills becoming more important than her right to her own sovereignty.

He had no right to touch her.


What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?



You didn't address the point.

Why is her right to wear her own body as she chooses compromised by the free will of another to impose that will upon her?

You are aware where this argument leads, yes? It falls down on itself.

So ... to the point. The point is that nobody has the right to touch another person or use their physicality to make another person uncomfortable. Nor is okay, ever, to grab a woman's breasts. Irrespective of how she chooses to adorn them.

That would be the bottom line, yes?


Can you answer this?

What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 20:06

Aussie wrote:
Can you answer this?

What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?


I expect she thought she looked beautiful and desirable. Is there something wrong with that?

And clearly you do not understand my point or you would not ask me such a dangerous question.

At which point, Aussie, is sexual assault no longer to be "blamed" on a woman? Loose fitting top and bra? Always a bra, right? Knee length bottoms? Ankles and wrists not a turn on to you? They are to some men.

Tell me, at which point is the onus placed on men to fucking well behave themselves and keep their goddamn hands to themselves instead of how much the wanton woman provoked him?

At which point in our evolution exactly? Tell me, please. I was labouring under the apprehension that we had already written it into law and weaved it into popular culture. But you're here to tell me it's lingering still?

Jesus. That's just embarrassing.
Last edited by mothra on 02 Jan 2018, 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 20:15

No.....I am keeping it as uncomplicated as I can. Surely (well in my mind) when she stepped out in public topless to wander around some populated place, she did so knowing she likely would attract attention from some people she would not 'like.' I wonder what she would have done if, say Hugh Jackman approached her and said 'Nice tits.'
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 20:18

Aussie wrote:No.....I am keeping it as uncomplicated as I can. Surely (well in my mind) when she stepped out in public topless to wander around some populated place, she did so knowing she likely would attract attention from some people she would not 'like.' I wonder what she would have done if, say Hugh Jackman approached her and said 'Nice tits.'



Jesus Aussie ... that's an argument worthy of Gordy. That's appalling.

I'll give you a chance to fix that up a bit before i rip it to pieces.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 20:20

Anyway, you're shifting the goal posts.

We've established who's to "blame" now, yes?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 20:46

mothra wrote:
Aussie wrote:No.....I am keeping it as uncomplicated as I can. Surely (well in my mind) when she stepped out in public topless to wander around some populated place, she did so knowing she likely would attract attention from some people she would not 'like.' I wonder what she would have done if, say Hugh Jackman approached her and said 'Nice tits.'



Jesus Aussie ... that's an argument worthy of Gordy. That's appalling.

I'll give you a chance to fix that up a bit before i rip it to pieces.


Rip away. That's why I started the Thread. But while you do that, please don't overlook answering this question:

Surely (well in my mind) when she stepped out in public topless to wander around some populated place, she did so knowing she likely would attract attention from some people she would not 'like.' I wonder what she would have done if, say Hugh Jackman approached her and said 'Nice tits.'
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 22:20

Aussie wrote:Rip away. That's why I started the Thread. But while you do that, please don't overlook answering this question:

Surely (well in my mind) when she stepped out in public topless to wander around some populated place, she did so knowing she likely would attract attention from some people she would not 'like.' I wonder what she would have done if, say Hugh Jackman approached her and said 'Nice tits.'



Before i do, which question do you feel hasn't been addressed already? The Hugh Jackman one?

Because i've already effectively countered the relevance of her intentions.

In fact, i'm wondering why we are still discussing her at all .. but here we are.

As for the ripping, will you accept dot points?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 02 Jan 2018, 22:33

Of course.

No one here dictates how Members may respond. Do whatever you want.

All I want explained is why that Lady made the deliberate decision to leave home topless and enter a heavily populated area where there would be young bucks, and also whether you reckon she would have gone ballistic, or all 'coo coo' if Hugh Jackman had approached her, and said, 'Nice tits.'
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 22:59

Aussie wrote:Of course.

No one here dictates how Members may respond. Do whatever you want.

All I want explained is why that Lady made the deliberate decision to leave home topless and enter a heavily populated area where there would be young bucks, and also whether you reckon she would have gone ballistic, or all 'coo coo' if Hugh Jackman had approached her, and said, 'Nice tits.'



So two questions then.

First question: What did she expect?

Well, i do feel as though i have addressed this question .. both in regards to it's admissibility in establishing culpability and directly, by saying that i believe she dressed that way because she felt attractive in doing so. But let's do it this way:

- A woman is entitled to wear whatever she likes without having to justify it to anyone.

- Her reasons for dressing in whatever way she chooses are her concern and absolutely no-one elses.

- Nobody has the right to lay hands on another person without their permission.

- It is absolutely never okay to grab a woman's breast, irrespective of how it presents.

- It is not okay to make a person feel sexually intimidated at any time, under any circumstance, for any reason at all. Ever. Not even a little bit.

- The woman should not be the focus of the conversation. It is the man who broke the law. It is the man who assaulted her. She in no way asked for it. She had no reason to anticipate it or expect it. She should not be asked to apologise for it. She should not be made to feel ashamed by it. She did absolutely nothing wrong. He did.

- If you can't handle seeing a pair of breasts without being compelled to act entirely on impulse, you are a danger to society.

- The conversation should be about what toxic masculinity enables men to feel as though they have a right to do .. or a justification for doing. They do not have the right to make women feel uncomfortable because they place precedence over expressing their desire to a woman's right to feel comfortable in her own skin.

- You are perpetuating the myth that women are ultimately responsible for the bad behaviour of men.

- Women do not dress to provoke men, certainly not in the way some of you have taken it. Many of us want to look beautiful and desirable. We expect men to be able to control themselves. Men should expect other men to control themselves too. Instead of, you know, asking who's to blame for a woman being sexually assaulted?

- Where do we draw the line on what is considered to be too enticing to men? Perhaps a more elegant solution would be to educate men that it is never okay to leer at, holler to, cat-call, grope, smack, pinch or in any other way sexually intimidate a woman. Ever. Not even a little bit.

And you honestly can't see my point in regards to objecting to the dissection of her in response to his behaviour? I am tiring of repeating it but it doesn't appear to have registered with you.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 02 Jan 2018, 23:06

Question 2 (the Gordy-esque one): Would she have minded if Hugh Jack,an had said "Nice tits".


..... seriously wish you took this one back. I'm embarrassed for you.


- Much of Hugh Jackman's allure is that he doesn't come across at all as the kind of guy who says "Nice tits".

- The offender in the story did not just comment upon her body offensively, he physically assaulted her. I find your dilution of the act offensive ... and telling.

- It is absolutely and utterly irrelevant if a woman likes being sexually mistreated. Again, i fear i am repeating myself, it is not about her at all. What she appreciates or rejects is entirely up to her. The discussion should remain on the man who assaulted her.

- It is a myth that we women "like it" when good looking guys do it. Yet even if it wasn't ... and even though some women do in fact enjoy that kind of attention ... it is socially and legally unacceptable. It is no longer condoned. There are laws and stuff.

- Not only is it offensive to women to leer, grab and cat=call at us, you also do a great disservice to men by not categorically condemning it. It doesn't work. We don't like it. Okay, so it may work on some women .. it may even work occasionally for some men .. but the reality is you've got a much better chance getting your end away by being friendly, respectful and interesting. You should pass that around. We women voted. That's what we decided. Let the other guys know.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby pinkeye » 03 Jan 2018, 03:18

mothra wrote:
Aussie wrote:
Can you answer this?

What attention do you reckon she anticipated would or could happen from the very moment she stepped out into public view, topless?


I expect she thought she looked beautiful and desirable. Is there something wrong with that?

And clearly you do not understand my point or you would not ask me such a dangerous question.

At which point, Aussie, is sexual assault no longer to be "blamed" on a woman? Loose fitting top and bra? Always a bra, right? Knee length bottoms? Ankles and wrists not a turn on to you? They are to some men.

Tell me, at which point is the onus placed on men to fucking well behave themselves and keep their goddamn hands to themselves instead of how much the wanton woman provoked him?

At which point in our evolution exactly? Tell me, please. I was labouring under the apprehension that we had already written it into law and weaved it into popular culture. But you're here to tell me it's lingering still?

Jesus. That's just embarrassing.





Well said Mothra.
And it is MORE then lingering.

Only Aussie and his ilk should feel embarrassed about it.
Aussie?? You are making it very plain where you stand on these sorts of issues. I am sorry to say it. But it is more and more obvious. :sad

You have no RESPECT.

What I mean is.. the respect everyone is entitled to, but which YOU only afford to women who meet your standard, if any EVER DO.
The fact that so many men feel as you do is NOT something to feel good about.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby greggerypeccary » 03 Jan 2018, 08:37

Disgraceful behaviour, from a drunken yobbo.

Women have every right to walk around topless and NOT be touched by horny men who can't control themselves.

I would have had a good look, that's for sure.

But I would never dream of running up and touching her boobs.

The blame is 100% on the drunken yobbo.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby johnsmith » 03 Jan 2018, 09:10

greggerypeccary wrote:Women have every right to walk around topless


I would go even further ... I would vote for a law to make it mandatory. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 03 Jan 2018, 12:48

johnsmith wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:Women have every right to walk around topless


I would go even further ... I would vote for a law to make it mandatory. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap



Germaine Greer made an excellent point once on Q&A. She noted that in the slut walks and other protests .. and it could be extended further .. the types of breasts that are displayed are "socially acceptable". That is, they are all no larger than a C-cup and all belong to young, attractive women.

She said she wants to see a great pair of F-cup boobs that have done a few rounds of breast feeding. Then it would be a proper representation of women.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby johnsmith » 03 Jan 2018, 12:51

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
greggerypeccary wrote:Women have every right to walk around topless


I would go even further ... I would vote for a law to make it mandatory. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap



Germaine Greer made an excellent point once on Q&A. She noted that in the slut walks and other protests .. and it could be extended further .. the types of breasts that are displayed are "socially acceptable". That is, they are all no larger than a C-cup and all belong to young, attractive women.

She said she wants to see a great pair of F-cup boobs that have done a few rounds of breast feeding. Then it would be a proper representation of women.



Lots of people wear clothes I don't like, it doesn't hurt me in any way. .. I'd still make it mandatory.
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 03 Jan 2018, 12:57

johnsmith wrote:I'd still make it mandatory.


What? Even when it's cold?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby johnsmith » 03 Jan 2018, 12:58

mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I'd still make it mandatory.


What? Even when it's cold?



especially then .... that turns the high beams on :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 03 Jan 2018, 13:05

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:
johnsmith wrote:I'd still make it mandatory.


What? Even when it's cold?



especially then .... that turns the high beams on :rofl :rofl :rofl



.... boys :roll
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby Aussie » 03 Jan 2018, 13:42

Aussie wrote:Of course.

No one here dictates how Members may respond. Do whatever you want.

All I want explained is why that Lady made the deliberate decision to leave home topless and enter a heavily populated area where there would be young bucks, and also whether you reckon she would have gone ballistic, or all 'coo coo' if Hugh Jackman had approached her, and said, 'Nice tits.'


No-one willing to answer?
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Re: Whaaat? Where is the 'blame' here?

Postby mothra » 03 Jan 2018, 14:00

How can you honestly believe i didn't answer?

Do you understand anything that i've said? I'm genuinely curious.

Not only have i provided answers, i've demolished the need to ask your questions.

What is it you're struggling with?
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