Female genital mutilation only $10

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Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby Miranda » 23 Aug 2019, 16:27

Bring your daughter to "mass circumcision" for $10, a Facebook advertisement in Indonesia's South Sulawesi province reads.
In Indonesia's rural towns and cities, female genital mutilation in the form of circumcision is still in high demand by parents who believe it is a religious requirement.
"Reach perfection through circumcision", the advertisement by community organisation Wahdah Islamiyah in the district of Jeneponto reads, asking for a contribution of 100,000 rupiah ($10.40).

"The clitoral membrane wrapped around the clitoris is cut open. That can increase sex hormones for women," she said, adding that the session includes an information session by a religious leader.

The organisation also subsidises the procedure for families who can't afford the 100,000 rupiah fee, but wanted to get their daughters circumcised, she said.
According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), female genital mutilation includes all procedures that involve partial or complete removal of female external genitalia, or any injury to female genitalia for non-medical reasons.
The Indonesian Ministry of Women and Children found 51.2 per cent of female children from newborn to 11 years old have been circumcised, often because of a belief that it is part of the Islamic faith.

This is not a part of Islamic faith!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-23/ ... s/11437934
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby HBS Guy » 23 Aug 2019, 18:00

Religion! AAAGHHH!

Gives licence to do the things your shrivelled little soul can dream up—for others!
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 24 Aug 2019, 23:35

No, it's not a religious thing at all. That is, not proscribed in any of the texts. It's roots seem to n#be animistic but it's certazainly more tribal than main stream religious..

What is clear is that it has been adapted by other societies as a means to control and subjugate women. There are even the daughters of US slave owners who report undergoing the procedure aqt the behest of their fathers who saw the effects on slave women and fancied a bit of that for their won women folk.

It is very, very hard to have an open and constructive discussion about this issue in a way that actually represents and is sensitive to the women and girls who've undergone cutting and not the reactions of those hearing about it.

And it is so readily conflated with Islam.

If i may suggest an excellent book on the subject; 'Possessing the Secret of Joy' by Alice Walker (who you may know wrote 'The Colour Purple'). A remarkable book.

But what i do know is that approaching people who perform and sanction cutting confrontationally makes the problem worse. And criminalising it has seemed to just push it underground. What success i've heard of is through non-judgmental education.

A difficult topic on which to hold your tongue.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 25 Aug 2019, 01:00

I remain adamant that this must be stopped.

Until women are confident in their EQUALITY this practice will continue. Until these cultures make MEN feel safe, without this most gross cultural abuse of women, nothing will change.

Usually other OLDER women are major participants. THEY do not have anything left inside them.. it has been ripped cut and torn out of them. They can never overcome this. And they are just the puppets.. they have no real mind or soul left.

THEY DO AS BIDDEN. To escape as much punishment as possible. They are slaves. Nothing more. It makes me cry, if I let it.

This is part of what my other post about women standing up and fighting back is all about. I don't just mean in our comfy part of the world.
It really IS up to the young women to reject this.

I KNOW.... I KNOW how I sound.. But unless other actions prevent it this practice it WILL continue.

And, in INDIA? girls and women are attacked routinely, with ACID.

That is happening more often here in Australia, as well.

FRANKLY.? IF we remain passive victims of assault, be it cultural, racist or misogynistic, WE have to be much more AWARE of the real world we face.

HEY !! the other day 2 female teens assaulted a woman and stole her bag, keys, and car. They got caught, but so.?

Hey girls? WTF.?
If you're smart you won't do it again
You feeling rough..? better be tough.

Ladies got to stand together.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 25 Aug 2019, 01:36

mothra wrote:No, it's not a religious thing at all. That is, not proscribed in any of the texts. It's roots seem to n#be animistic but it's certazainly more tribal than main stream religious..

What is clear is that it has been adapted by other societies as a means to control and subjugate women. There are even the daughters of US slave owners who report undergoing the procedure aqt the behest of their fathers who saw the effects on slave women and fancied a bit of that for their won women folk.

It is very, very hard to have an open and constructive discussion about this issue in a way that actually represents and is sensitive to the women and girls who've undergone cutting and not the reactions of those hearing about it.

And it is so readily conflated with Islam.

If i may suggest an excellent book on the subject; 'Possessing the Secret of Joy' by Alice Walker (who you may know wrote 'The Colour Purple'). A remarkable book.

But what i do know is that approaching [u][size=200]people who perform and sanction cutting confrontationally makes the problem worse. And criminalising it has seemed to just push it underground. What success i've heard of is through non-judgmental education.
[/size][/u]
A difficult topic on which to hold your tongue.


My previous post was made prior to reading the above. FUCK this is hard to talk about.!

A very difficult topic to even think about. I cannot accept this as an on-going un-solvable problem. NO..

These girls and women who HAVE been brutalised in this way MUST NOT continue the practice, because by softly softly you condemn a whole new generation to the same. These peoples' sensibilities are important, and they must obviously seek solace from their own, BUT ......................
?? success through non-judgmental education???

.. so like a couple generations down the track..?? NO way Mothra.!!

This.. these people ,, NOT THE WOMEN.. you understand..??? need to be PUT DOWN.

Oh wail,, the breadwinner is dead. Yahooo//
Oh grandfather and uncle and brother and cousin are all dead too?? YeeHaaa.!!! Oh Grandma passed too, and Auntie. Oh well... no one lives for ever, and some things are worth putting your life on the line for.

So I get a mite bloody minded
when I think about this issue,
because I KNOW what I'd like to DO.

Those already mutilated... should (MUST) fight to stop this..... it speaks to their powerlessness even here in enlightened Australia.

They need help, not solace.

THEY have NO NEED for shame.. they NEED to stand up.
THEY didn't do this... THEY are not to blame.


ALL perpetrators of this mutilation should be charged and brought before Courts of Law for ??... torture, physical and emotional abuse, depravation of liberty,..and doubtless lots more,
... and all should be made to pay to these young women some really good financial reparations... this does NOT happen in ISOLATION.

There are plenty of people who should be made to pay.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 02:14

Pink, i want this stopped as fast as possible too but we need to be rational over emotiu#ional about this ... and that is really, really hard.

What you need to remember is all forms of genital cutting of women and girls is invariuably performed by women. Trusted elders. And these women truly believe they are doing it ion the best interests of the women and girls they are cutting.

Now, sure we can make it illegal and so we should ... but that's not going to stop it.

Wagging our fingers as these women who are performing the cutting isn't going to stop it. They will simply not listen.

What success has been achieved at a grass roots level is through education. That can only take place if there is room for dialogue and the student is willing to listen to the teacher.

We know this. It is the human way.

There are some fabulous action groups working to achieve this outcome with significant success. So much so that some of them have recruited former cutters as outreach workers. In terms of girls and women saved, this appears to be the most effective stategy ... along with illegality, which we know does not work alone.

I'm about best outcomes.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 02:35

And a point of interest, for three very important reasons, cutting is the preferred term to mutilation. One of those reasons is signifigantly more important to me than the other two, although i concede all three and have adjusted my terminology. FGC, not FGM.

Those reasons are (i will place my personal deal breaker at position 1):

1 - Many women who have undergone cutting do not like to think of themselves as mutilated. They report to being further hurt by this label.

2 - In terms of best practices, it is found that terming it mutilation breaks down barriers of communication with the perpetrators of cutting.

3 - It is technically incorrect. Type 4 FGC involves no mutilation (as described in the OP) but a nick, piercing, scraping or pricking of the vclitoral hood. Still undoubtedly painful and traumatic for the girl victim and worthy of inclusion in action against the practice however.


It's hard though, to not want to cry out 'mutilation' at the top of our lungs. I dig it. But greater goods, people.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 25 Aug 2019, 02:46

I DO understand women do the 'wet' work. The cutters as you call them.
Those already CUT themselves. It is utterly tragic that this goes on here, today.

It is sexual slavery, enforced by physical 'cutting' (mutilation) and there is no way it should be allowed to continue.

HUH.

You see..? Like so many other outrages, like Manaus Island, PNG eg?
. Someone self-immolated in front of a doctor, I heard yesterday.
Nothing on the News .. no-one cares unless it's theirs. We are not rational beings, we are effectively INSANE .

As a species, as an entire group of mammals we are insane.

Surely that is clear.?

Humans are going to destroy ourselves. Fast or slow, doesn't matter.
The end is inevitable.
When I hear about things like this filthy practice to enslave and control women and children,,,,you know what I think.?

The sooner the better.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 02:48

Here is a fabulous overwiew by a wonderful organisation, the Orchid Project:

https://www.orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-female-genital-mutilation/
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 02:50

pinkeye wrote:I DO understand women do the 'wet' work. The cutters as you call them.
Those already CUT themselves. It is utterly tragic that this goes on here, today.

It is sexual slavery, enforced by physical 'cutting' (mutilation) and there is no way it should be allowed to continue.

HUH.

You see..? Like so many other outrages, like Manaus Island, PNG eg?
. Someone self-immolated in front of a doctor, I heard yesterday.
Nothing on the News .. no-one cares unless it's theirs. We are not rational beings, we are effectively INSANE .

As a species, as an entire group of mammals we are insane.

Surely that is clear.?

Humans are going to destroy ourselves. Fast or slow, doesn't matter.
The end is inevitable.
When I hear about things like this filthy practice to enslave and control women and children,,,,you know what I think.?

The sooner the better.



I know. It's enough to despair.

I like to think of it in the individual rather than the collective. Every good outcome was worth what went into attaining it.

It keeps me from driving off a cliff.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 25 Aug 2019, 02:53

technically incorrect.
?

What about the sewing up of the labia, allowing only a small place for urine to escape, AFTER a clitorectomy.?

oh ? and 'cutting' is the preferred term over mutilation.?

You are losing me here Mothra.
Sorry.. I am out of here.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 02:55

pinkeye wrote:technically incorrect.
?

What about the sewing up of the labia, allowing only a small place for urine to escape, AFTER a clitorectomy.?

oh ? and 'cutting' is the preferred term over mutilation.?

You are losing me here Mothra.
Sorry.. I am out of here.



That is FGC type 1, Pink, The most extreme. And of course it's mutilation. The most abhorrent kind imaginable.I'm not denying that. Nobody is asking anybody to deny it. I'm just all about the girls and women this has happened to and those it is looming on the horizon for.

There are 4 types. Cutting covers them all.

And i think you are either misunderstanding my posts or i've not put my position forward clearly enough.

It's really hard. So much to be passionate about.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby Miranda » 25 Aug 2019, 10:17

Given this issue is spuriously linked to faith, it should be addressed by the leaders of that faith. In the eyes of Allah, he made perfection, therefore, to mutilate perfection, is a sin.
All Muslim women should be taught this and laws enacted to prevent FGM.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 25 Aug 2019, 11:55

Miranda wrote:Given this issue is spuriously linked to faith, it should be addressed by the leaders of that faith. In the eyes of Allah, he made perfection, therefore, to mutilate perfection, is a sin.
All Muslim women should be taught this and laws enacted to prevent FGM.



Spoken like someone who believes the problem restricted to to Islam.

You'd be quite wrong, of course.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby Miranda » 25 Aug 2019, 16:24

mothra wrote:
Miranda wrote:Given this issue is spuriously linked to faith, it should be addressed by the leaders of that faith. In the eyes of Allah, he made perfection, therefore, to mutilate perfection, is a sin.
All Muslim women should be taught this and laws enacted to prevent FGM.



Spoken like someone who believes the problem restricted to to Islam.

You'd be quite wrong, of course.


How delightfully uninformative of you. Please Mothra, don't just claim it, prove it...
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 25 Aug 2019, 23:34

mothra wrote:
pinkeye wrote:technically incorrect.
?

What about the sewing up of the labia, allowing only a small place for urine to escape, AFTER a clitorectomy.?

oh ? and 'cutting' is the preferred term over mutilation.?

You are losing me here Mothra.
Sorry.. I am out of here.



That is FGC type 1, Pink, The most extreme. And of course it's mutilation. The most abhorrent kind imaginable.I'm not denying that. Nobody is asking anybody to deny it.[b I'm just all about the girls and women this has happened to and those it is looming on the horizon for.][/b]

There are 4 types. Cutting covers them all.

And i think you are either [u]misunderstanding my posts or i've not put my position forward clearly enough.[/u]

It's really hard. So much to be passionate about.



Oh it is both. Or Neither.

The first rule in , what can I call it? subversion?.., is to create acceptance of the IDEA.
So by tacitly, or overtly SAYING.... those it is looming on the horizon for... seems to make this appear inevitable.!
IMHO ? WRONG IDEA. These young women need help NOW, not after. It should not happen, it should not be able to happen.
I hate that you're suggesting there are degrees of genital mutilation.
BECAUSE... the VERY IDEA provides it with some rationality, when it is entirely WRONG, NO excuses, and degrees of degradation?. :WTF

I do NOT accept this. Some cultural practices are quite simply ..UNACCEPTABLE and ILLEGAL, here in Australia. You want me to name another.? I could, but that detracts from my issue with the approach you think is preferable.


This is NOT, and never should be considered a 'cultural' practice. It is what it is. The gall to suggest that things will just go on the same, with care for the VICTIMS.... NOPE NO NO NO NO.


This is a topic that must be addressed.
If it means locking up older women and men...?? known participants in this practice here in Australia.??
AND you can be sure OUR AUTHORITIES KNOW..!!!.....

THEN that's what we should do.
En masse preferably, and monitor any attempts to take these girls out of the country.
AND we keep that up. We remain consistent .

Otherwise it's slapping a bandaid on a cut off stump of a clitoris. !

YEAH RIGHT. As if ? Sorry, I just needed to say that.

Nothing will change without a real effort .. just how uncaring uninformed and indifferent can our 'protectors be'.?
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 26 Aug 2019, 14:47

Miranda wrote:
mothra wrote:
Miranda wrote:Given this issue is spuriously linked to faith, it should be addressed by the leaders of that faith. In the eyes of Allah, he made perfection, therefore, to mutilate perfection, is a sin.
All Muslim women should be taught this and laws enacted to prevent FGM.



Spoken like someone who believes the problem restricted to to Islam.

You'd be quite wrong, of course.


How delightfully uninformative of you. Please Mothra, don't just claim it, prove it...



Prove what? That you made it about Islam of\r that the issue isn't resatricted to Islam?

Because the first is self evident, the second so widely understood that i did not feel it was required.

For your edification:

Image

Female Genital Mutilation Is Not a Uniquely Muslim Problem/
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby mothra » 26 Aug 2019, 14:55

Pink, you're talking to me like i disagree with you. I don't. Let me be clear that so passionately do i feel about this subject, i have been researching it, informing myself, actively campaigning and donating towards fighting it for 20+ years, And i persdonally think it a far more genuine cause for going to war than oil. But even war wouldn't stop this.

What i want more than i want just about anything in this world is for this not to happen . It is a deeply rooted cause of mine.

What i'm talking about is not softly, softly. I want people going in as hard as they can. I just want them to be armed with effective weapons.

And i desperately don't want us to lose sight of the very real needs of the girls and women who have had it done to them in our outrage and our fury.
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Re: Female genital mutilation only $10

Postby pinkeye » 28 Aug 2019, 22:54

thanks Mothra.

What you said there stands on it's own...
I'd be glad to have you on my side...
good luck, gotta go
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