The truth about men and murder

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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby mothra » 06 Jun 2018, 12:30

johnsmith wrote:It's never ever once crossed my mind to hit my wife during any argument. I don't understand why anyone would.
If you're that upset, just go for a walk.



The reasons why people do it are incredibly complex and there is no 'one size fits all' profile for an abuser or abused but one thing i feel pretty confident in saying is that very often, it doesn't cross the abusers minds in moments of clarity. It is true that people are often truly and hugely apologetic and remorseful afterwards and a honeymoon period of sorts starts anew.

The way i try to frame it to my clients is that we all need to, in striving to control our impulses, have a consistent understanding of what we will or will not give ourselves permission to do. If you accept non-violence as a core principle, it becomes less easy to impulsively respond with it.

I know it sounds simple but think about all the ways in which we manipulate our own psyches to break our own rules (to open another bottle of wine or have another piece of cake or take acid or whatever) and you start to get a picture of the emphasis you place on certain things which have less meaning than something you would absolutely never allow yourself to do under any circumstances, like theft, rape, murder etc., even if whacked out of your mind on something.

So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent? What messages have they been receiving? How can we counter it?
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby HBS Guy » 06 Jun 2018, 13:19

A young woman I employed as receptionist was engaged, age 17, to a guy who really did bottle things up, when he came to pick Kerry up he announced himself then went back down and sat in his car with “a tight face” as Mum described it.

She got married and left my employ. A few years later, having already 3 kids they must have needed money and she worked part time for me. One day she shows up with a bruise on a cheek. “Walked in a door” said someone. “Domestic” said I, “and the good news is they never stop and it always gets worse.” Not my business but I thought I would say that and left it at that. No idea how that ended up but I doubt it ended happily.

Why did such a bright young lass as Kerry chose such a nebbish as her husband?
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby johnsmith » 06 Jun 2018, 13:28

mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby mothra » 06 Jun 2018, 14:00

HBS Guy wrote:
Why did such a bright young lass as Kerry chose such a nebbish as her husband?



This is perhaps one of the most misunderstood factors in family violence; why do they put up with it.

I couldn't begin to number the studies that have been done into it.

What i can tell you is that it happens to Family Violence workers also. Psychologists, doctors, lawyers, anyone. It is not in any way a reflection of some mistake on behalf of the abused. You'd be very surprised at who presents.

The frog in a pot of water analogy works well. The frog doesn't realise it's being slowly brought up to boil until it's too late to jump out.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby mothra » 06 Jun 2018, 14:05

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


So many factors. Much comes from the old world in which women are considered property but that is less and less common these days.

The whole "boys don't cry" thing is a known variable. As is the dreadful alpha male bullshit. And the monkey see/monkey do principle.

At it's root it is a control issue though. One of power; immediate cause and effect.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby HBS Guy » 06 Jun 2018, 14:22

I wanted to wake the frog up, so went a bit further, perhaps, than a boss should. But I did not say SHE had been punched.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby mothra » 06 Jun 2018, 14:32

HBS Guy wrote:I wanted to wake the frog up, so went a bit further, perhaps, than a boss should. But I did not say SHE had been punched.



It's really hard for people that care to watch, especially the children of it.

You can't second guess yourself. Often men see it in other men before women do. I couldn't tell you how many times i've known of a man's behaviour shocking the wife but the husband always knew he was a bit off. The extraordinary ones do something about it, as you did, although rarely to much effect. Friends and family can do everything short of turning up with a shotgun but a person has to reach their own line. It is important, hard as it is, not to judge them for it. We're dealing with tremendously complex psychological factors.

Women sense the bullshit in other women before men do though, to even it out. One way that women can be bullshit is by patronising or judging women who are abused. Stigmatise them even. "They" would never allow it so refuse to empathise in any way with a woman who does.

This of course is even worse for men. Not a lot of blokes want to admit to being abused by their wives.
Last edited by mothra on 06 Jun 2018, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby HBS Guy » 06 Jun 2018, 15:27

The day Kerry got married I was waiting in the church hoping she would see sense and drive rapidly in the direction of away.

I could see the coiled tension/frustration in him. Oh well, haven’t seen her now for ages.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 18:33

mothra wrote:And feel free to post this on Ozpol. Grappler and Gnads will go off like frogs in socks.

Another cheap hit at all men!

What's next? Oh, I know: another cheap hit at all men!

Without men there would be no civilisation.... :Hi
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 18:34

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.

You're thinking civilization would exist without men perhaps?

:Hi
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 18:35

mothra wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:
Why did such a bright young lass as Kerry chose such a nebbish as her husband?



This is perhaps one of the most misunderstood factors in family violence; why do they put up with it.

I couldn't begin to number the studies that have been done into it.

What i can tell you is that it happens to Family Violence workers also. Psychologists, doctors, lawyers, anyone. It is not in any way a reflection of some mistake on behalf of the abused. You'd be very surprised at who presents.

The frog in a pot of water analogy works well. The frog doesn't realise it's being slowly brought up to boil until it's too late to jump out.

Why do women have children with criminals?

:c
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 18:36

mothra wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:I wanted to wake the frog up, so went a bit further, perhaps, than a boss should. But I did not say SHE had been punched.



It's really hard for people that care to watch, especially the children of it.

You can't second guess yourself. Often men see it in other men before women do. I couldn't tell you how many times i've known of a man's behaviour shocking the wife but the husband always knew he was a bit off. The extraordinary ones do something about it, as you did, although rarely to much effect. Friends and family can do everything short of turning up with a shotgun but a person has to reach their own line. It is important, hard as it is, not to judge them for it. We're dealing with tremendously complex psychological factors.

Women sense the bullshit in other women before men do though, to even it out. One way that women can be bullshit is by patronising or judging women who are abused. Stigmatise them even. "They" would never allow it so refuse to empathise in any way with a woman who does.

This of course is even worse for men. Not a lot of blokes want to admit to being abused by their wives.

Women pretend: are you trying to pretend you don't know that!???!
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 18:37

HBS Guy wrote:The day Kerry got married I was waiting in the church hoping she would see sense and drive rapidly in the direction of away.

I could see the coiled tension/frustration in him. Oh well, haven’t seen her now for ages.

Did you quote that from somewhere?

Personal observation DRAH.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby johnsmith » 06 Jun 2018, 18:59

MilesAway wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.

You're thinking civilization would exist without men perhaps?

:Hi


have another cone
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby DonDeeHippy » 06 Jun 2018, 19:04

when I was late teen early twenties, I had many friends that coupled up and domestic's where a way of life for just about all of them , I truly thought it was just normal, like ohh yeah its good to begin with....... then the trouble starts
It was only when I finally found a women that put up with me I realized how wrong they all where ,how low a man has to be to hit the person he is supposed to love....
It was then I realized to my dad never hit mum, but never made a big deal about it.
Mentioning my Dad he stopped drinking in his 40's and told me it was because looking back on the years,
Every time he did something he regretted as a adult , alcohol was involved....

I only hope now , I can be a good influence on my boys (well men now) :buddy
Bongalong... for some reason women are just so superior to anything that ever existed or will ever exist!
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby mothra » 06 Jun 2018, 19:19

DonDeeHippy wrote:
I only hope now , I can be a good influence on my boys (well men now) :buddy


It sounds as though you have been, Don.

The best teachers are those with personal insight. Another reason not to stigmatise, just teach and show compassion.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 20:05

johnsmith wrote:
MilesAway wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.

You're thinking civilization would exist without men perhaps?

:Hi


have another cone

Keep guessing and maybe someday you'll make someone believe you completely by accident: because we all know it's a numbers game with you don't we ya femo idiot!

:yak yak


Yay, go slutwalk but oh noes we don't want slaves in blangladesh squashed in sweatshops making dresses for white women by non-white women oh noes!

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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 06 Jun 2018, 20:08

DonDeeHippy wrote:when I was late teen early twenties, I had many friends that coupled up and domestic's where a way of life for just about all of them , I truly thought it was just normal, like ohh yeah its good to begin with....... then the trouble starts
It was only when I finally found a women that put up with me I realized how wrong they all where ,how low a man has to be to hit the person he is supposed to love....
It was then I realized to my dad never hit mum, but never made a big deal about it.
Mentioning my Dad he stopped drinking in his 40's and told me it was because looking back on the years,
Every time he did something he regretted as a adult , alcohol was involved....

I only hope now , I can be a good influence on my boys (well men now) :buddy

Lol, so women don't sleep with criminals: end of story yay ,... you're full of it mate!
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby johnsmith » 06 Jun 2018, 20:11

MilesAway wrote:Keep guessing and maybe someday you'll make someone believe you completely by accident: because we all know it's a numbers game with you don't we ya femo idiot!


no guessing involved. It's obvious you're under the influence.
Drugs, alcohol, it doesn't really matter which. Either way you haven't a clue what you're on about.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby pinkeye » 06 Jun 2018, 20:33

johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


Seems you are a rarity then indeed JS, and good on you. Just understand that most men don't think the way you do. :thumb
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby johnsmith » 06 Jun 2018, 21:07

pinkeye wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


Seems you are a rarity then indeed JS, and good on you. Just understand that most men don't think the way you do. :thumb



actually most men I know agree with me. It doesn't make sense to them either that you'd want to batter the person you love, the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, the person you're supposed to protect at all costs. Afterall, they can refrain from battering people they don't like.

sorry your experience has been different Pink. Most guys I know are pretty decent.
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 07 Jun 2018, 14:52

MilesAway wrote:
HBS Guy wrote:The day Kerry got married I was waiting in the church hoping she would see sense and drive rapidly in the direction of away.

I could see the coiled tension/frustration in him. Oh well, haven’t seen her now for ages.

Did you quote that from somewhere?

Personal observation DRAH.

Fair enough then! I remember seeing the egg in my cousins boyfriends hair: it looked like egg and I told her that!
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 07 Jun 2018, 14:54

pinkeye wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


Seems you are a rarity then indeed JS, and good on you. Just understand that most men don't think the way you do. :thumb

You're just a ratted pill freak!
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby MilesAway » 07 Jun 2018, 14:54

johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


Seems you are a rarity then indeed JS, and good on you. Just understand that most men don't think the way you do. :thumb



actually most men I know agree with me. It doesn't make sense to them either that you'd want to batter the person you love, the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, the person you're supposed to protect at all costs. Afterall, they can refrain from battering people they don't like.

sorry your experience has been different Pink. Most guys I know are pretty decent.

Why can't mothra understand this?
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Re: The truth about men and murder

Postby johnsmith » 07 Jun 2018, 14:57

MilesAway wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
pinkeye wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
mothra wrote:So with this in mind, why are so many men giving themselves permission to be violent?


and that is the bit I struggle to understand.


Seems you are a rarity then indeed JS, and good on you. Just understand that most men don't think the way you do. :thumb



actually most men I know agree with me. It doesn't make sense to them either that you'd want to batter the person you love, the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, the person you're supposed to protect at all costs. Afterall, they can refrain from battering people they don't like.

sorry your experience has been different Pink. Most guys I know are pretty decent.

Why can't mothra understand this?



I'm pretty sure she does and she has said so many times. You should stop pretending you're such a victim in all this and listen to what she actually says, instead of making it all up in your head.
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